Beacon Persistence

Kinda hard tearing all the rare trophies out of your house every time you log out no?

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Other MMOs don’t force player interaction and trading in the way B< will do it. As i said before, you can’t keep your ites forever (they will break). Therefore there is no “big advantage” someone can get out of your stuff (only a limited time benefit).

I call it treasure hunt. It’s a thing a lot of people do in real live (or at least did long ago - spain vs. south-america)

One thing that bothers me with the complete argumentation is the unilaterally point of view. You (the guys who are for permanent beacons) only tell how bad it would be to lose your stuff to others … but you ignore the fact that you can pick up things from others too. If you come back after 1 year and your stuff is gone you can go out and search for other “lost treasury” too. It’s something like a spiral … but it adds the need to go out and search. It’ll add fun to find things and the explore ghost-cities.

We don’t know if he’ll ever come back … i think if he’ll come back 2 years later he wouldn’t continue with his half-done building project TBH.

If you plan to stay offline for half a year you should do this. If you come back regular there is no need …

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You’re not wrong. But if you know you’re about to travel, it’s a solution. Maybe not the best. Maybe not the smartest. But it addresses the problem.

You must not have read Havok’s post. I’m really not a fan of people cursing me out when I’m trying to discuss ideas. You have your way you want to play the wonderful game that Boundless will become. So do I. We don’t have to agree. But there’s no reason to curse people out on public forums.

Done with this thread again for a bit, way too hot in here for my tastes.

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Zouls uses other MMOs banks as analogies to represent progress which most likely will be our houses/guildhalls/shops etc. in Boundless.
Surely we don’t want to copy other MMOs but we should take them for analogies to explain things we can’t in other ways exactly because Boundless is so new in many fields.

And I have to agree with him. Our inventories are not big. In fact at the moment they are smaller than Minecraft inventories (if I didn’t miscount) and all your progress except for exp and what you have in your brain will be in your house. I’d expect that to be at least 60% of the progress we’ll make.
Losing that is as horrible as loosing all the weapons, potions, armor etc in your WoW bank.

Also most of you assume that the beacons you build in are your own. Maybe if you build in the wilderness.
But what if you build in a city founded by a guild? Don’t you think the guild controls all the beacons and rents them to people who want to live in the town? If I were a guild leader I’d do it that way.
This means that if beacons were permanent and someone would quit we’d have 3 scenarios.

  1. The beacon is in the wilderness.
    No Problem because nobodie wants that place anyway or has enough space next to it to use.
  2. The beacon belongs to a guild.
    No Problem because the guild could just have their own rules about not logging in and rent the beacon to someone else.
  3. The beacon belongs to the person which quit and is in a heavy populated area.
    This might be a problem. But all of you say people should plan ahead and safe their stuff if they might not come back for a while. So the people who build in this area should have planned ahead and organised it better so one quiting person doesn’t ruin everything. For example with a guild who controls the beacons.

So for me its 2 to 1 for permanent beacons and the 3rd point doesn’t even always applie.

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This is neither your everyday MMORPG nor does you “everyday MMORPG bank-slots” occupy space in the game world.

This hugely depends on the game.
In most games you can just stop playing since it has no consequences but in games with such consequences you can definitely see people preparing for their absence (Been there, done that).
And there are definitely easy ways to safe your stuff,e.g. just ask your guild if it has a few blocks spare space in their basement for some chest so you can store some of your stuff there.
I´m officially anouncing that I´m going to found the first 'Oort Vacation Storage Vault’™ Guild as soon as not-permanent beacons get introduced :smile:


I like that idea even more than the idea of natural regeneration :thumbsup:

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You miss an other important point … scamming and abusing. What if the guild leader kicks all his guild members and sells the town ? I’d not place anything that has a worth for me in a “shared” location. Buildings ofc … My shop with a mimimal set of equipment too. But not my most worthy items.

Furthermore if this place is owned by a guild and if you go offline for a long time the guild will take whatever they find and keep it too. Where is the difference to vanishing beacons and lootable chests ?

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Easiest way to find ppl to interact with would be a overlay in minimap, where you can see other player as dots…

First such a guild wouldn’t get so big to attract merchants/crafters with such a wealth. Also you don’t have to put your valuable things there if you don’t want to. Surely you’d have to trust the guild. But if it’s a big city with many shops and a good reputation then the chances are very low that they’d scam you.

The point is that your own beacons won’t be raided.

Analogies work so long as the two things being compared remain analogous. It was my opinion that this is not the case with banks in other MMOs versus containers in boundless. There are additional details about banks that we know won’t work in Boundless (shared inventory across instances, person specific, etc.). There are additional details about containers we know don’t work with banks (public vs. locked, can be placed anywhere and not just found in central locations, etc.). You’re welcome to feel differently, just sharing my reasoning behind saying Boundless =/= Modern AAA MMORPGs that have had years of polishing.

When you were counting did you take into effect the increased stack size in Boundless? 99 vs 64?

Things on your person or in a guild chest are not in your house. Coins are not in your house. Skills and experience are not in your house? I’m not sure what a brain is in this context. If you mean skills, pretty sure that’s going to be bound to your character, not items you place down.

As for guild beacons, we have 0 information about them so it’s hard to include them in this discussion. But @Heurazio makes some excellent points. Also to be considered is what happens if the guild is multiple hundreds of players large. Doubting any one person or entity can house all of them. You could propose that the guild gets more plots with more members, but that’s how Towny in minecraft works (speaking of analogies) and it’s WAY easy to use to abuse smaller groups.

And if they’re offline? That’s what we have plinths for.

You don’t have to trust anyone…it takes me months to trust people I game with that I don’t know in real life, especially on Minecraft servers or in raiding environments on WoW/ESO. Careful of assuming how people play. Assuming guild beacons/plots allow for them to house all of their members, I personally plan to use my allocated space to build a portal to my own beacon outside of the guild where all my valuables are kept. Step 1 to keeping things you don’t want to lose is to not give them to someone else. Which is what @Heurazio is saying.

So you don’t have to craft your own beacon. But your stuff is taken anyway. And you’re ok with this so long as a beacon owned by you isn’t affected?

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That’s a main problem. I’ve seen a lot of ■■■■ in other MMOs and “online” games and i don’t trust a lot of people - especially not a guild (guilds are a nice thing for events and raids but nothing i’d trust a lot). There are political or personell reasons to “do bad” things … there are new leaders or internal political fights that split a guild and i saw this often … If i’ll leave a guild i won’t leave my house … i’d build where i like (because of location, neighbors or because there are good hunting spots in the woods) and i’d join a guild for reasons (trading, raiding) and not “because i like to build a town with them”. The “town” is a by product of a lot of people who incorporate in different professions but not because the “building aspect” (this is my personal opinion and i know a lot of you might disagree).

You’re not alone :thumbsup:

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Yep. I don’t accept teleport requests in minecraft. I don’t lend gold or trade gold for gift boxes in WoW. I don’t trade back and forth crafted glyphs in ESO. I’ll contribute materials to a guild wanting to build a town. I’ll take ownership of a home if they want to build one for me. But it will be aesthetic only. My real powerbase will likely be somewhere accessible by only me. Just safer that way.

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Ofc a map-layer with plinths, should be very useful for other then merchants to.

how do you track whether they’re in or out of stock? Seems like a map layer containing all of this info is a very complex fix for a simple problem. And it’s only one of the many problems mentioned by people here that permanent beacons would pose.

How do you track what left in old house? You have to go there.

Definitely not true.
Eve Online has an Alliance (≈Guild) that´s known for scamming (even within the guild). It sure has a bad reputation but it has grown big enough to force merchants to deal with them.
So this is definitely a realistic scenario.


I think you are also underestimating this scenario, I´m afraid that a lot of collaborative projects would eventually end up like this:

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Did you even read what I or Zouls wrote?
It’s not about banks == containers or Boundless == Triple A MMO. It’s about progress.
We compare progress in Boundless to progress in another game to make it apparent what would be lost. In this case the best analogie we found was banks in other MMOs because Boundless is also an MMO and most people who want to play Boundless most likely know other MMOs which are build after the same formula as every other Triple A MMO.

Which also means that I don’t feel differently than you but mean something else entirely.

That doesn’t help you if you want to safe many different (!) things which most likely won’t be stackable for balance or programming reasons.

Things in a guild chest are not safe either so they don’t count. Things on my character are, as already said, limited by the size of my inventory, which isn’t big. Coins, skills and experience are not in the 60% of progress I think building or storing stuff in your beacon will contain. Because they are not built or stored in your beacon.
And the brain means recepies, strategies to fight monsters etc. Those are progress to you know.

First of all it doesn’t matter how big the guild is. What matters is how big the town is. Because that’s where the beacons are.
But you’re right we don’t know anything about guilds. That doesn’t mean a guild couldn’t do the same with the features we have at the moment.
Make a guild with 2-3 friends and pool your beacons. You’d still have a problem if one of those quit unexpectedly and without telling you but that is much less likely than a random person in your town.

You do if you want to build in a town where all the beacons belong to one guild. That’s just how it is.

False assumption again. It’s about the beacons and thus space. Not about housing all the members of a guild.

If that’s how you want to play the game go ahead. It’s a sandbox game so play it however you want. But it’s not an argument for or against permanent beacons.

Where did I say I wouldn’t have to craft my own beacon? Where did I say my stuff is taken away? And where did I say I was ok with it?
Also how could I own a beacon if I don’t have to craft it? (excluding the beacon we might be gifted when starting the game) You do see the fail in your logic, right?

To make it clear if you misunderstood me.
The question was: What is the difference between being raided by random people when you quit or having your stuff taken by the guild you rented your beacon from.
The answer is: The former raids my beacon, my personal beacon, the beacon I own. The latter not. The latter only takes the stuff I have in a beacon that doesn’t belong to me. So it’s my own fault for leaving the stuff there.

And before you come with the argument: But it would be your own fault too if you leave the stuff in your personal beacon and it gets raided. It would but we don’t really have a place to put everything. Vastars bank has the same problem as a rented beacon so that doesn’t work either for you. So where do I put my stuff?
And how do you justify that I have to tear down my house in fear of griefers, yes I call that griefing, if I quit for a year although my beacon is in nomansland? Even though there are solutions for all the problems permanent beacons could cause.

But you say that this guild is known. So why should a sane person have valuable stuff inside of a beacon of said guild?

I don’t underestimate how the scenario would play out. I’m just saying that the “you have to plan ahead” argument can also be used for planning a city instead of planning your absence.

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This is pretty off-Topic so here just the short answer:
Lack of available alternatives and economical power.

I won´t tolerate any unjustified defamation of Vastars 'Oort Vacation Storage Vault’™.
Please refrain from posting any assumptions on the quality of my guilds service.
:wink:

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I don’t know about the size of EvEs universe but isn’t that also very big? I can’t imagine how there couldn’t be an alternative. But yea semi off topic. (semi because it might help us understand what could happen in Boundless)

No assumptions just treating all guilds the same way^^ As others said. Trust isn’t easy to aquire. Especially on the internet.

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I quite like this idea.

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It’s NOT clear how much progress is really stored in your buildings and / or chests. It is speculative that building is a big part of the end-game which i don’t think it is. Your items might include a lot of time to create too but …
Remember that everything will break. If you store items they are in fact a “time storage” (they time you needed to create them and collect the resources). In other MMOs you spend an increasingly amount of time making items that you keep forever or trade. But in B< you can’t keep it forever therefore the amount of “progression” stored in items is limited. If your mighty sword of doom breaks after 20h of gametime it’s “lost”. If your backup chest is looted because you’ve been offline for 3-6 months it’s “lost”. In both cases you need to create a new one. I don’t see this as problem … B< is a perishable universe and everything you do only maintains the status quo. Therefore your argumentation that it’s equal to lose your bank in WoW is false because WoW Items don’t break.

That’s life. You can’t save everything forever. Sometimes it’s better to let things go (always wanted to use such a lame sentence in a discussion :smiley: ). B2T you can save the most worthy items which you’d need to restart after a long time. I think that’s “fair”.

Why should i want this ? As @Clexarews said i’d build a pure asthetic building in the town and my own home somewhere else. If i’m the master of swordmaking in B< why should i go to someone ? I’m the master and others come to me (that’s just how it is, too).

I understood your post this way [maybe @Clexarews too]: "The guild manages the city (the beacons in the city) and if you join the guild they’ll add you as collaborator to existing beacons. In this case all beacons belong to the guild and are not created by yourself (you are only a collaborator)

This assumes that only guilds (or mostly guild) build cities. But i think this won’t be the case. I think most of the time random people would start building next to eachother (there are enough economical reasons). If this is unmanaged inactive beacons become a problem. I saw this on my first home-world “Civini” where i and @Saint_X started our first builds. A few days after we started there were a lot of other people around us blocking our expension places … they left the game after some days / weeks and we didn’t saw them ever again but the space was blocked and we weren’t able to expand and tha was one of the main reasons why we started a second project on Selta (we lost everything because we don’t hat the space to expand). This might be a weak argument because it’s from a time where building was 100% of B< but we don’t know if we can replace our mechines. If they are fixed once they are placed it would be the same outcome.

Select the most worthy items to restart … sell the rest for coins … let it go (minimalistic approach).

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