Beacon Persistence

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

@Clexarews

Sorry you think I misunderstood you…You’re suggesting that having 2 beacons placed in the world means the fuel cost for each should go down slightly so it’s as if you’re paying for 1.75 beacons instead of 2 beacons? I’m saying I’m against this. If you want to take up more of the world, you should have to pay for it. Large beacons, which I’m interpreting as areas with many plots but only one beacon controlling it, should cost as much as small beacons, which I’m defining as areas with barely any plots and only one beacon.

Sorry. it seems you actually did what I was trying to say is that having a beacon with 100 plots shouldn’t cost 100 times the price of fueling a beacon with 1 plot. In oposition to you though I still think that it should be slightly more expensive but it shouldn’t scale at the same speed of as the beacon growth, owning 2 unconected beacon blocks should still cost double the amount as owning a single beacon. If all the beacons have the same area anyway.

[nevir]

@olliepurkiss

1. Initially the beacon remains, but the contents start to slowly regenerate back to the initial world state, once that process has finished the beacon disappears and the land can be claimed by someone else.

One problem with this approach is that if a popular beacon ends up being neglected, no one can step in and claim it & maintain it (without admin intervention). Instead, they would need to wait for the contents to fully decay, and then rebuild

I think the other option is better, especially if you provide advance warning (email, in game, whatever). Plus, any derelicts of past builds will be cool to explore, and potentially build upon

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

Something in this direction:

If that helps anything

@nevir

One problem with this approach is that if a popular beacon ends up being neglected, no one can step in and claim it & maintain it (without admin intervention). Instead, they would need to wait for the contents to fully decay, and then rebuild

This is partly why I like the fuel idea as it allows bypassing player to donate to keep builds they like allive though that could probably be done through other means.

[Clexarews]

.[quote=“Thorbjorn42gbf, post:24, topic:4285”]
And should probably use less and less per beacon for every one you use.

So maybe the first cost 1 fuel a day while 2 beacons cost 1.75
[/quote]

So you mean beacon plots here instead of beacons?

@Thorbjorn42gbf

more like it costs less to maintain multiple beacon areas with the same fuel. those making large beacons easier to maintain.

And you’re using less here as in it should cost less to maintain large plots than it would without a discount. Which means you’re not comparing it to small plot areas. We’re on the same page now. The below is where I thought you wanted different prices.

@Thorbjorn42gbf

owning 2 unconected beacon blocks should still cost double the amount as owning a single beacon. If all the beacons have the same area anyway.

I have no argument about fuel costs raising with plots. Neither for or against, I can swing with either.

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

@Clexarews

So you mean beacon plots here instead of beacons?

Yeah it was badly written, the terms are a bit confusing to get into sometime ^.^

[Clexarews]

@Thorbjorn42gbf

@nevir

One problem with this approach is that if a popular beacon ends up being neglected, no one can step in and claim it & maintain it (without admin intervention). Instead, they would need to wait for the contents to fully decay, and then rebuild

This is partly why I like the fuel idea as it allows bypassing player to donate to keep builds they like allive though that could probably be done through other means.

It’d be interesting if beacons had three stages. Stage 1 would be normal. It’s owned by someone and has fuel. Stage 2 is when it runs out of fuel and for a time it’s sort of flickering…protects against regen but blocks can be placed and removed inside and the beacon is open to new owners. Stage 3 is shut-down. The beacon no longer protects against regen.

I’m game for public donations too, but I think the above would help in the event that someone doesn’t want to own the beacon anymore. That way you don’t just have to donate to keep cool builds alive, but you can take them over to make them even cooler.

[Vastar]

@olliepurkiss

If beacons are to disappear, under which circumstances should that be?

I´d also support the idea of fuel but I think a shared fuel-pool across all beacons would be a must have. Fuel should also be very easy to obtain and not feel like a chore so fuel should either be tied to coin and act as an additional gold-sink or maybe to exp.

---

A perk in the builder/founder skilltree that extends the fuel buffer sounds like a pretty awesome idea
Another perk that slightly reduces the fuel consumption would also be neat.

@olliepurkiss

When a beacon is flagged as due to disappear what should happen to the contents?

Definitely a fan of 1. but I think it would be nice if the process would be a bit more fleshed out like:

• 1 day without fuel:
  Creatures start to spawn inside the beacon (preferably the nasty/ghostly ones @claudiotolomei showed us) to add an “abandoned” feel to the beacon.
• 3 days without fuel
  People that have invested some points into the Explorer tree are able to loot stuff from chests/plinths inside the beacon
• 1 week without fuel
  Everyone is able to loot stuff from chests/plinths inside the beacon.
• 1st day of the 2nd week without fuel:
  Regeneration starts and players that previously had building permission for the beacon can now “adopt” it.

(Just example ideas, please don´t quote me on them)

@olliepurkiss

If there is a time element to beacons disappearing, how long after a player stops playing should this happen?

6 months are definitely way too long. I think a skilled builder should be able to store ~1 month worth of fuel inside a beacon. Then the regeneration process should start, so the total time before the beacon disappears should be ~5-6 weeks (and I think it´s obvious that everyone who´s allowed to build inside a beacon should also be able to add fuel to it)

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

@Vastar

Definitely a fan of 1. but I think it would be nice if the process would be a bit more fleshed out like:

I like the idea of doing it in stages though probably give people with building rights to claim before looters gain permission. (yeah i know I am quoting you on it now but I rather like the general look of the stages)

@Vastar

I think a skilled builder should be able to store ~1 month worth of fuel inside a beacon.

This I disagree with though 1 month is not enough, that is basically what I use for prepartion for examns and examns every year, time I really do not want to need to cut down on to put some time into playing a game.

[Clexarews]

@Thorbjorn42gbf

I like the idea of doing it in stages though probably give people with building rights to claim before looters gain permission. (yeah i know I am quoting you on it now but I rather like the general look of the stages)

Was just writing this haha.

Also, @olliepurkiss, I think the beacon UI, if we go with fuel, should show not only the amount of fuel in the beacon but also what that translates to in real-time so people can carefully keep track of what their reserves are at.

[Vastar]

@Thorbjorn42gbf

This I disagree with though 1 month is not enough, that is basically what I use for prepartion for examns and examns every year

Assuming that you know when that month starts you could prepare and stockpile 2 months worth of fuel and use half of it to immediately fill the beacon “tank”. After 2-3 weeks you quickly logg in and refill the “tank” with the remaining fuel you´ve stored (this would take about 5 min)

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

@Thorbjorn42gbf

This I disagree with though 1 month is not enough, that is basically what I use for prepartion for examns and examns every year, time I really do not want to need to cut down on to put some time into playing a game.

To add to this I know multiple people who have gone without interenet for a month because of huricanes, other natural disasters or just plain lack of luck when getting a new home, I can expant it further and say that there are some classes that does 4 week study trips in my hichschool meaning that they if without proper movable gaming device could end up in a situation where they would loose their build just beacuse of a school trip. (These are the game design classes so you can guess that probably most of the other people they would know playing the game wuld be on the same trip)

@Vastar

Assuming that you know when that month starts you could prepare and stockpile 2 months worth of fuel and use half of it to immediately fill the beacon “tank”. After 2-3 weeks you quickly logg in and refill the “tank” with the remaining fuel you´ve stored (this would take about 5 min)

That is a working point though. Not helping a lot of other problems such a disasters long term class trips and volunteer work though.

[Clexarews]

I agree with you that 1 month might be too low of a number. But I’d say 2-3 is about the max and should only be given to people who have put in points/earned the exp for it. Anything over 3 is ridiculous (to me), definitely agreeing with @Vastar on that point.

[ChickenBranches]

Maybe instead of making the chest open to being raided or just vanish there could be some way to store it in a database for that character and allow that character in the future to somehow restore those chest and what they stored. Other then the chest, i agree with fuel system and for the beacon to go away before regen so you can harvest from the ruins of abandoned beacon areas.

[Clexarews]

I could see this easily being abused. The only reason I will ever use a beacon is to protect chests, since I’m not really a builder.

[ChickenBranches]

I don’t understand how it could be abused. They don’t gain anything they didn’t have before and this game isn’t about raiding/stealing from other people’s chest as far as i know. Could you explain what you meant?

[Vastar]

I´d assume that most player will eventually join one or several guilds or have (ingame-) friends that are willing to help you out in such cases.
At least I have never had problems with keeping my “beacon” in EvE Online fueled , although I´ve never had more than 2 weeks worth of fuel stored (damn was I broke in that game ) and I regularly took brakes that time.

[Heureka]

@olliepurkiss

Having put a beacon down in the game, should it be there permanently, or should it disappear under some circumstances?

I would like it to be permanent, but i see the problem. If it disappear it should take long time.
Maybe some mechanism (voting now and then) to set extraordinaire buildings to be permanent, like the Unesco World Heritage list. Would be nice to have a list of such sites to visit and get inspiration from

@olliepurkiss

If beacons are to disappear, under which circumstances should that be?

1. It’s based on last log-in time which is simple, and clear, and allows people to keep their stuff just by logging in every so often.
2. It’s based on amount of recent time played – similar to the above, but prevents people keeping their stuff just by logging on, they have to actually play.
3. It’s based on gathering / crafting some kind of “beacon fuel” and putting that into the beacon every so often, which would force players to engage with the game and visit their beacons to keep them maintained.

1. I prefer. It often happens things in life you cant control.
2. No, I don’t like to be forced to play a game.
3. See 2.

@olliepurkiss

When a beacon is flagged as due to disappear what should happen to the contents?

We have two ideas:1. Initially the beacon remains, but the contents start to slowly regenerate back to the initial world state, once that process has finished the beacon disappears and the land can be claimed by someone else.2. The beacon disappears, and the normal world regeneration process starts reverting the contents back to the initial world state.

1. Yes, a dignified end of all your work.
2. I don’t like to see a flock of wolfs waiting for their dinner.

@olliepurkiss

If there is a time element to beacons disappearing, how long after a player stops playing should this happen?

At least 6 month.

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

@Vastar

I´d assume that most player will eventually join one or several guilds or have (ingame-) friends that are willing to help you out in such cases.

The problem is that some people people prefer to make guilds of close friend circles and they would easily be strongly affected by being hit by a real world natural disaster or stuff like the one month gamer study trip to USA.

I really don’t care about people messing up and and then loosing their beacon but 1 month is short enough time for a series of unfortunate events ending up with a full guild loosing all of their stuff :´( Which is something I really don’t want to happen. Because that will make a lot of people unhappy and is really not fun for anyone.

@Heureka

At least 6 month.

And here we really see how different it is perceived by people. We have people ranging all from No more than 1 month to my 6 month ish with some work to at least 6 month.

It is cool to see how diverse a playerbase we are actually getting here.

[Blaquknite]

I fully understand the point of wanting Beacons to have a time limit so the universe doesn’t become full of ghost towns. With that said I feel Beacons should be kept alive by logging in (maybe for a minimum time per week/month) I do not think there should be “fuel” that has to be gathered and stored though. As a person who loves the idea of this game but has limited play time available, I do not want to have all of my limited time gathering fuel so I don’t lose my house.

With that said there could be a happy medium where you have to “touch” the beacon like once a month or once every other month in order to keep it… This would prevent having to farm a resource “fuel” during precious play time, but it also makes you “maintain” your properties. This way you cannot just log in for a split second or long in and AFK for the required hour a week or what ever… you have to go out and visit your various properties, at least the ones that are important to you. This can be done with simply pressing a button on a beacon or going within a set proximity to it.

What you guys think?

[alexanderyou]

I am personally for some kind of consumption (monetary or fuel) for beacons because:

• people could work on making more efficient beacons, maybe part of a skill tree. Could also work with adding more fuel storage to beacons.
• it would make it so claiming larger areas requires more work, so that people actually have to work together to make something as large as a town.

Overall, I like the idea of having an average beacon be able to hold 1-2 months of fuel, and after it runs out of fuel the beacon slowly starts fading, making the protected area regenerate at 1/2 - 1/4 speed. This could also be interesting for lore, have beacons be a magical item that keeps the power of the world at bay, but as it runs out of power itself the world will slowly start seeping back in.

edit: possibly have the upkeep price for each connected beacon slightly increase? And guild beacons have a decent increase in consumption in exchange for more powers.
This way a small group of people could have their base covered by a handful of beacons, and have a reasonable cost, and a large guild will have a much higher upkeep, but will have the ability to have permanent portals, sub-beacons, etc.