Beacon - Placed Blocks Into Holding Area On Leaving Game


#21

I remember when I was little being absolutely devastated by losing a game file or even just a few hours of progress. The hardest thing for any gamer or anyone really is having to do the same thing over again when their first run has been nullified, imho. When something like that happens I begin to assess the situation in terms of whether something new can be learning or if it’s even worth it, contemplating if more is to be gained by just shoveling it to the past.


#22

People who leave games sometimes come to regret that decision months later and having such a feature might just be the thing to give that person the incentive to return.
This would be an amazing feature to entice people to return or for base moving etc.,
Are devs able to easily generate a list of quantity of blocks (with colour)/machines etc (excluding natural blocks etc) per beacon?
If so then maybe an expiring beacon automatically create a small txt file with this info for the account and then give the player the ability to retrieve the items from a console or something (doesn’t no man’s sky have something like this?


#23

Great idea, but how to deal with large builds? Lets say 2-3 million objects?


#24

@Xaldafax - I thought you originally championed allowing players too loot expired beacons? Adding some protection for expiring beacons would remove this.


There is a scale of things that can be protected:

  1. All items in storage / machines.
  2. All the entities.
  3. All the placed blocks.

When a beacon expires this could become a lot of information. Maybe 1,000s or 1,000,000s of items.

So the regen would need to be updated to have a preliminary “moving out phase” before the beacon is removed. This would all need to be stored in a big blob of data somewhere.

Then how does the player get these items back? A new inventory that could contain huge numbers of items? Is this mega inventory always accessible? How are items reclaimed from it? It this simply “cloud storage”?


I’m happy to explore paths for lapsed players to return to the game. But we need to make sure that “cloud storage” doesn’t become the optimum mechanism for storing your items.


And for people comparing the return mechanisms of Boundless to Trove, Minecraft and Creativerse - the main difference is that Boundless is a shared persistent universe. Without a mechanism to clean away lapsed players - the worlds would be filled with endless ghost towns.

(And ho ho ho - queue joke about exactly that - but this is fundamental tension in the game - players want more and more plots (which is great), but as the average # of plots increases per player then by definition the density of players to plots will decrease. So we want busy worlds AND we want many plots.)


#25

It surprises me to learn that people think storing potentially millions of items (x an infinite or growing number of players) in a persistant online universe doesn’t cost any money.

Pay or play.


#26

But by including gleam club you created just this scenario. Most of the world is ghost towns.

Had gleam club instead saved all your materials to the cloud but caused beacons to expire then the world of boundless would be far more consolidated and without player ruins.

Though the games are different the perception remains the same. I have not logged into Trove for a year yet all my structures still stand. You’ll have customers who perhaps expect at least this much given the price.

Maybe reworking gleam club is the answer.


#27

Not necessarily. You could add an additional type of beacon un-plotter. It would have to follow the rules of normal unplotting, but would additionally throw any player-placed blocks into ‘the cloud’. That would remove the need for any kind of ‘moving out’ phase, and would diminish the scope for exploits where something is put into the cloud but also gathered by a player.

[EDIT] - Maybe have the cost to make one of these unplotters include regen bombs, so that when unplotting, you regen the plot space as well?

I would suggest a cloud storage chest item. A player can only have one. It would need to be placed in your home beacon to be able to be used. It would need a new interface (so that’s not great, because development time) but it would let you draw out any items in storage.

To prevent it from being optimal for item storage, put a time lock on it so that you can’t access it’s contents less than 2-4 weeks since any item has been put in. If the goal is to provide a smoother return for players who want to take an extended, planned break, this limitation shouldn’t be a problem at all.


#28

You can’t expect that. When you fuel the beacon it tells you when it will expire.

If you’re not playing, keeping your stuff costs server resources. Every planet has to stay online regardless of if you play.


#29

My point is other games don’t delete everything. People have an expectation.

And I think enough have shown they might return had their items been saved.


#30

I think you can refer the solution in MapleStory 2 .
When the player owned estate has expired, everything in it will be stored in a “cloud storage”.
Then when the player login to the game, these temporarily stored items will start counting down.(they set is 15 days)
If the player does not handle these items in time, they will be deleted forever.

Also, in Boundless, each block that removed by nature and items in it will be storage in the cloud.
If it is robbed or re-mark plots by someothers - I don’t think this can be avoid - then he may really lose those his items forever.
Or, when the beacon expires, all items in the all storage block are instantly move into the cloud storage.


#31

perhaps, but that boat has long sailed… (meaning any major changes would/should have happened at launch.)

I’m not exactly against people losing all their stuff, but…
it’s a mechanic in the game that if a beacon expires, any passers-by can loot said beacon.

what would happen if this feature was implemented? would the soon-to-expire-beacon and the entire build just instantly -pop- out of existence right before someone’s eyes when the beacon flame goes out?

I sure hope not.


#32

a big meteor lands :wink: according to the size of the build :wink:


#33

There are a finite set of blocks, objects etc in game.
Every block has some kind of reference code I’m guessing.
Most objects (non-natural) would probably fit on an txt file no larger than a bit of a4. (complete optimistic stab in the dark…no evidence to back up my thoughts…)
So not storing the placement of blocks etc, just the amount.


#34

If it boosts player retention then sure. It’s not like beacon hunting is the sole reason most people play.

Besides. The game is going to have more sales and more free weekends. It would be good to have this feature in there.


#35

:thinking:
you’re comparing someone’s personal build on a single beacon, which could be dozens or millions of blocks only available to not just one account but one character, to a planet that is available to every player in the universe…

that’s a lot of information, especially when you multiply by how many players there are owning however many beacons that could potentially expire…

:unamused:
I don’t think that would be a good way to do it.

maybe if whatever other players didn’t loot, keep that… basically anything that was reclaimed by regen, but again, that’s a lot of processing and coding for someone that may or may not even return… is it worth it?


#36

Does this means ya would not find stuff that gone wild anymore?


#37

100,000,000,000 x [refined stone][type][colour]
100,000,000,000 x [machined metal][type]
etc
Used to be a mod in a very active cod4 clan and used to record vids of players cheating. These vids were only kb’s in size because they didn’t actually record video but recorded player placements etc in code.

I consider giving an incentive to players who wish to return a good thing. Having the all the blocks etc available would be a good incentive, in my eyes. It would work for me.
Could there be a better, more interesting, less dev-working-on-side-issues idea? probably…would certainly be interested in hearing those as well :slight_smile: .

Certainly an issue but a big one countered against the benefit of getting players top return?
Don’t know the answer to that one.


#38

8alts times inventory is all ready a lot I don’t mind this option but limited storage then


#39

You’re guessing here. You’ve no data to suggest that the majority of beacons are protected by Gleam Club rather than 6 months of fuel.

I explained the primary difference that is the driver for fuel and expiration. (You can wave perception around all you like. But I was sharing for the community why it’s configured the way it is. It’s a reality of the persistent worlds that drives this configuration.)

If you were to play Boundless offline or on your own hosted world then you can turn these off. Then you would have a model that matched the other games, and in turn the building progress retention model also matches them.


Yes - and I have considered this. But this path only works for players who are planning and being proactive about their absence. This wouldn’t help players who lapse accidentally.


#40

@James Sorry if I was not clear enough in the original post. I had said “Keep the fuel beacon or lose all items function” which means that the expired beacon game play function would not be removed. This is only for people making the “conscious decision on the beacon” via a tab or feature to destroy it and save items. GC and all other game play stays exactly the same so builds would continue to disappear.

I would default to “all placed blocks” but in fairness I do see how that could be a lot of blocks especially if a “placed block” somehow includes a block that was removed. (e.g. like when I mine an area). I assume it doesn’t and only is a block that a person put down. I still see how that can be a lot which might result in larger than optimum file sizes. But, I would say you really need to do some metrics to truly see what some of the largest builds we have now on a single ALT and per full Account are. That should determine if the file size is really not feasible.

I remember our conversations about blueprints, so I guess we have the same issue with blob creation. In that model we were talking about a plot at a time so it was more manageable. Here it would be a whole beacon so that is of more concern. I would lean toward a file I can save locally to remove the “cloud storage” need but only if that file is encrypted and could not be hex edited or adjusted in any way. If that isn’t possible then we might need cloud storage on your size which I’d lean toward Glarcier or some cold type storage feature. To the point of maybe people going on hold for 1, 3, 6 months then the file goes away… as an example. I want local files so no time frame is needed to be put around it.

Since placed blocks could be large due to a huge build, then I would focus primarily on what I am trying to do - ease the ability for players to return after making a conscious choice to leave. That means I would be willing to drop the all placed blocks and go with stored items and tools. Unfortunately, this could be too large as well which means it likely needs to be dropped (but do metrics on this). So I would want to focus on the most key things people need when starting over which is machines, spark generator/cord, and power coils.

This would ease entry back into game and remove all other complications with huge amounts of blocks, etc. People still would have to work to get tools, blocks for builds, etc but at least the harder items - especially around coils - would be returned making life a bit easier (if even in a smaller fashion against getting everything back).

Items would be returned via a holding area accessible via Sanctum (only as a remove and not put in) option with likely a timer around it forcing the person to remove them in soon. We’ve also talked about other type of storage chests to hold many more items than a set of 4. Maybe we use that or you use some of the item delivery options we have talked about in the forums for gift baskets, etc.

I am certainly focusing on easy solutions to increase the possibility to have a player return. Them getting something back is better than nothing. Yes they could likely break down the machines and keep them on their character, but this does make it a bit easier. Plus that also leaves them inventory space to store any other items they want to keep on character and not have to worry about the things you save.

This should NOT be a charged feature because it is very limited in scope. If after investigating your metrics you see that it is feasible to create a blob of all placed items in a beacon as well as encrypt a file to save locally - then I would say that feature could be paid. But, that is a different customer type and use case. You should always give multiple options especially if you can make it easier for those “not sure about the game.” But as you know I’m not opposed to more enhanced features that might cost actual cash or cubits. But, please don’t lose the real reason we are doing this - to get a player to come back that isn’t liking the game right now. So “charging” them for that probably isn’t smart.