Boundless Economy is on Life Support


#21

Ya, sadly it looks like gems could easily level out at around 100c with how easily they are farmed.

I’ve already lowered my Exotic Earthyams. They are about as numerous as Waxy Earthyams now if you know where to look. Sweet beans… Lamblis is COVERED with em, wouldnt be surprised to see them at 15c, along with all the leafs.

But this is what many people wanted. I really hope that the new worlds, with Blink and stuff, bring a whole new class of “Super-rares” back. I dunno tho. I just see the same thing happening like “Well, we can’t fight Titans without Blink! And there’s only like 1000 veins on Planet X! Why should I have to look for weeks just to be able to enjoy this new content!?!” Rinse repeat… until the same thing happens


#22

I will say all whit respect so dont get me wrong.

I made already a post about economy. Every price is a monopolized price. They all been set before game lunched officialy.

So the only problem you shop ownerface is the 0% cooperation whit each other and absolutly nothing else. Why dont you stick tougether and stabilize the economy by setting all the same boarders for pricing. Dont be 8:15 think outside the usual box.

Shopowner need to be part of the economy and not lonewolves as bout 70%is atm. If you would group up you can stabilize economy for now.

The game as it is right now gives me all i need as a player. All possibilitys are ready to be grabt. Why change it? Cos your money is not as big as it was. I dont see the point there. Ask yourself this:

Do i fill my baskets on my own? (if yes you got a huge ammount of work)
Why dont i work whit oher people and let em work for me?(a lot players would be interested if it helps stabilize economy for sure)
Shud i make buissnes whit other shop owners? (Maybe they sell what you cant and you what they cant.)
How reasonable are your prices in compair to what shud be fair to low to midgame players. (not in compair to other shops, lot of shops shud be burned down for some prices they have)

If you start to work as a team things can stabilize, your income, my income, decent pricing…

Low ress can be a good start. As an example infiniplex has a good idea work whit him. Synchronize your prices and change economy in an active way. There is allways room for a healthy portion of competition.

Thank you


#23

Pretty much this. You don’t know how much I have to bite my tongue when I see the daily post about how people feel xyz nerf was too harsh and that devs need to give the community a break. I just shut up because like @Greybeard, I know how blunt I can be :grinning:. Oye.

Ps- they need to nerf surface regen. There I said it


#24

I’m still learning this, and way off in some areas, but from what I have seen in running around in shops to see what is sold and trying to find a fair price, there is a wide range. Go to one store and they want 12,000 coin for a loaf of teaching bread. Go to another one that is asking 2,000 coins. Players are confused, is one gouging or what? Why is a gold fist costing 5,000c on one planet and 550 coins on another planet? Why can I sell to a shop my glue for 4 coin but the shop is selling it for 25coins.
To me, what I think needed to be increased is ores such as coal. On level one planets it is very hard to find coal and almost impossible to find iron. Yet, that is what new players need to mine and build with. They don’t want to use copper for more than a week, they want the iron tools.
I understand what the devs wanted, new players make stone and copper tools. Advance and move to a level two planet or set up a outpost and get iron and more coal. Get better and get iron, coal and some silver from the next level and so on. But, it seems to be a bit out of whack. Part is that new players want things too early. Here, on Steam and in youtube videos you are reading/hearing of how you can get gem tools and get lots of coins from just doing this. And have it by the end of week three or around the level of 25 to 35.
It can’t be done, not for the casual player, who gets frustrated and then quits, bad mouths the game.
As stated, shop owners need to get together and set fair prices and emphasis that you don’t need that diamond hammer by the end of the second week.

Did they cut back on football? Since I don’t get any where we have our base far away from cities we hardly ever get any football. Just this past week I have gotten a total of 60c from football. And I was surprised it was that much.


#25

Well, partly I price my wares by how easy I can get the materials. At first I barely could find sweet beans, then I found other spots to gather them and find them rather easy so I could lower the price of the teaching loafs and pies…

If others do the same then that explains the price differences


#26

Oh, how wrong you are :slight_smile:

Collaboration is key to moving forward. I’ve hooked up with a couple of people for creative projects to have some different fun in the future, and it’s great to plan ahead. It’s probably people like yourself that will start the guild ball rolling because you see the issues, and nobody addressing them.


#27

I called it. I said deflation was coming like winter, though I was out by a month.
I was righhht I was righhhht :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#28

mud for the same price as clay makes no sense, mud is harder to get…
for me it feels like bad behavior if ppl pay the same for ash/mud than clay…

(clay, soil and peaty can be 1 Hit with copper tool, for ash iron (or silver) is needed. wich is a big difference since iron is slower and silver more expensive than copper.

so ash/mud must be worth more than clay…

no offence, just wanted to let you know


#29

I agree we are in a recession. My shop has much lower traffic and sales with the result I cannot buy much these days. So I am starting to do other things like explore more and build more.

Yet the ultimate problem is that we have no end game purpose for building more things. Sophisticated constructions require diverse supplies and that is what would keep the market afloat.


#30

Yeah the regen is way too high. Tech is all over the place lol. I am falling all over it on Cardass as i just walk around. I remember in beta the highest tech was a real find, but here its a joke.

The main cause for me is very simple, more simple than regen.

The higher tier planets drop everything, and in larger and larger amounts. There is no exclusive resources to the lower tier worlds, so eventually you have piles of everything. This was a bad design choice and the only way to reverse it now without people complaining is make T7+ not drop everything :D, but new resources for new recipes. Also to introduce a new exclusive drop to T3, and then T4, and then T5. So these planets have some relevance, and also you can’t just farm everything as you go. An alternative I suppose is to have the different T7 worlds have different resources, not just gems, but i’d like this less as I’d have to play with a laggy ping as I went between them.

As far as the economy goes. I am running a hunter. Its not too bad. I don’t mine for coin I almost exclusively hunt. Its not great, but its okay. I am hoping T7 comes out so hunting (and mining) gets another boost, albeit for a short while with the current drop rates and current way resources are on every single world in greater amounts, any new world will have the same issue eventually. Not enough slingbows are made, but a couple of shops keep up with them, Trophy prices have tanked on wildstock, spitters and cuttlefish. So much so I sometimes avoid them, however the sacks are doing okay so there is that.


#31

Gouging. Yes and no.
Some shops have not altered their prices for a very long time, either because the player is no longer actively running it, or they just haven’t been keeping up with the market, or like you say they are ripping people off. A fourth option is they pay more for ingredients so they sell higher.

On forged goods, some stuff really is worth 20,30,40k+ I said I wanted to buy a 30-40k slingbow the other day and people were saying that’s way too high! I’m saying to myself, not if I can two shot elites on a charged protection build. But hey ho. Serenity did me some 70% crits + 1k damage (or thereabouts) :slight_smile: at 20k which were very nice and bought out straight away.

But back on prices some of the baskets asking to buy leaves at 1c for leaves for example could be down to being overstocked, out of touch with the market, just as easily as ripping people off. So I don’t judge, I just don’t sell to em. I mean if I was running a shop again and overstocked I think i’d still keep a basket up too, just lower the value on it. Then you get the shops that clearly have no idea, that price all the beans the same, or all the yams the same, but again its not malicious just a new player testing the waters imho.


#32

I still see a few things going in my baskets because for most stuff I pay a reasonable price but yep nothing seems to be selling. I know some stuff won’t sell because they’re priced for “I could use this but if you really want it” but even reliable, regular sale items at cheap prices have dried up.

I still get about 30-40% footfall I did but maybe 5% sales of late. I think it’s a few things already mentioned and more:

  • Player population is down quite a lot (low numbers on portal windows, empty shops, disappearing players from the 'hood)
  • Of those that are left, fewer require bought gear because time has passed and with time comes your own resources
  • Footfall (the real kind, not coin treats) dropped significantly when Universe expanded and the local portal hub had to rearrange paths to mitigate costs.
  • Some market rates are so low it’s just not worth my time to collect X any more.

I still buy from others but each day I see less coin in my pocket and that there’ll inevitably come a time I’m surviving on my 100 coin for being 30 minutes logged in.


#33

@RecoilS

Yeah but an overlooked fact it also slows down how quick you gain plots, build or gain XP to go get everything yourself. I understand the people who like to get most things, not that I do myself, but going to a planet just to get one resource they are lacking is a waste of time, especially as resources can all be found on the same world - minus color blocks, gems and gleam. So if you think about it, you might as well harvest several at once.

I am on the other end of this spectrum. I don’t craft potions, tools, I don’t gather stone or anything other than hunting goods myself and my plot gain rate is considerably higher than if I went to get each of these. Its like when I bomb mined in beta, I did that exclusively and I was gaining XP much faster than people trying to do everything. My shop prices for volatile blood for example were really really high, and people were puzzled.

This is only important for those who think speed is important, obviously for the more casual or relaxed player its not a point of consideration.


#34

This is a good thing. Gems are relatively easy to get with the player tool base advanced to where it is. We’ve had weeks and weeks since launch. We should be richer in resources.

With any luck the timing of the next tier of materials will help and there will be new stuff that can be tweaked for availability if required to stimulate the economy.
//
Personally I like it that you can solo most of the game and that it’s “easy” to do so. I would argue easy/difficult is about player skill though. I’d prefer skill-based challenges developed rather than artificial resource scarcity to force economic activity.


#35

I think a lot of issues (including the economy) that surface and the endless arguments that follow on the forums are due to a fundamental problem this game will seemingly always have: The 2 major player archetypes it tries to draw in simultaneously; Archetypes that have different ideas of fun and progression. What one player group deems fun and appropriate, the other sees as a major transgression and vice versa.

On the one end, you have the voxel builder / crafter player: Likes to experience content. Favors being a jack-of-all trades over alts. Not very grind tolerant, especially if it gates content. Likes to work on a variety of things in a play session. Appreciates trading and income but not at the expense of the diversity of their gameplay. Expects meaningful progress on the regular.

On the other end, you have the sandbox MMO player: Likes to be a specialist and feel like they have their own unique contribution to the game world. A cog in a well-oiled machine. Doing everything with a single character is unthinkable. Demands a vibrant and balanced economy, with proper sinks in place. Extra grind-tolerant if it means preserving a healthy economy and has more of a long-term outlook on things; Progress can happen over multiple play sessions.

I’m not saying one is better than the other, but i’ll tell you what… The devs are in a tough spot, especially with the current lowish population. Decide to strongly move the game in the direction of one archetype and you lose the other. Try to appeal to both (what it feels like they are doing now; can’t lose players) and you have the herculean task of striking the perfect balance or risk losing both over the long run. It’s tricky as hell.

Right now, the economy is slowly deteriorating because supply is out of control. Something has to be done to reintroduce scarcity, somehow. I’m in favor of ideas that feel less like a nerf like @Karrade 's suggestion of the higher tier planets not spawning all the lower tier planet stuff. There is very little incentive to visit planets. You basically alternate between your base and the highest tier you can operate at.

Alts were also mentioned as a cause and I agree. In the sandbox MMO archetype, which I lean towards, it’s bad… As of now, with only 2 (not 10!) level 50 skill sets, I can do literally everything in the game. That just doesn’t sit well with me. Yes, it feels powerful; it’s great fun… for about 30 minutes, the time it takes to realize I never need another player again… in an MMO.

I’m almost 100% checked out of the economy. The opportunity cost of finding baskets that aren’t empty and stands with enticing prices is too big. I’d rather just chuck it all in machines and mass craft away. I’ll need it eventually.

This being said, I’m hopeful T7 and temporary worlds will reinvigorate everything. I’m just hoping people can see that not gating content and allowing jack-of-all-trading leads to a more fragile economy and may eventually remove the need for trading/shopping entirely. Whether that leads to an overall more pleasant Boundless experience is entirely subjective. Time will tell.

I for one would like to see a healthy economy and am willing to make concessions for it to happen. My opinion.


#36

I have diagnosed Chrometophobia, its a fear of money, and all that deals with it. When I found out I was going to have to be a shop owner and start advertising to sell goods, I was gobsmacked but I got over it and just puggled along, I thought this was going to be a sandbox game not a Shopify version of a voxel game. Now I don’t have a point just yet but I do have a question.

How long was the Boundless economy running in early access before launch?
Just wondering because at launch all the new players had no money to buy anything and so we just did our own thing to play the game.


#37

Part of that is unless you run a successful shop, you don’t have a steady source of income. Sure you could run around filling request baskets, but your chance at losing money is also higher. It sucks to sell something for say 7c at one shop then later on find someone buying for 11c. For me at least, it makes me hesitant to sell anything at all because i play self sufficiently so everything will be useful at some point.

Then you have the request baskets that are empty. Its unrealistic for people to keep these stocked with coin at all times unless you’re insanely rich. There’s too many shops, not enough buyers. You can spend 30 mins searching for someone to sell your stuff to, and still not find someone buying AND have enough coin to buy what you have. Sure you can find a basket, go farm, and come back to sell. But you also run the risk of that basket being empty by the time you come back.

If gem prices drop to 100c does that really matter? Wouldnt that just mean people buy more gems at a time? A mass craft to compact gems is what? 360 gems. 36k total at 100 each. With gem prices at ~500 right now a mass craft would cost 180k. Barely anyone is using regular gem tools for that reason. Theyre going straight to forged gems, essentially jumping a whole progression level.

I think we really need to give it a little more time to see how everything levels out. Personally I think this patch will bring some players back and retain more players as well.


#38

Guess I’m still buying everything way too high, but i make a fair profit and my sales prices are close to best. But sales have definitely dried up, for many reasons above.

People complain about the grind, buy refuse to outsource their time by buying things… :man_shrugging: my rates are based more off gather time than anything else, as this is the only actual price we pay to get anything. Gems are expensive because gem tools are expensive… but once everybody has 12 points into atmospheres this wont be the case. Stone will always be cheaper than gems, partly because you inadvertently gather millions while going for gems. Purple yams are easy to get yeah, but i dont get anything else of value when hunting them so i don’t…

Once people actually decide to act on the reported hate of grind is when we will see true prices emerge.


#39

I legit just started using request baskets - I have about 8 up with various stuff needed. It has taken me a while to have enough money to put in them - but I am keeping them regularly stocked and at reasonable prices. Today I’m buying shim orbs 200c, buying inky 35c, sap 20c, bitter beans, etc.

Shop is Coolabah on Alder, through the ‘mega mall’ sign on Biitula PS Hub


#40

Early backers had a 2week headstart i think. Wich is the reason why i stay at my statment that the economy was monopolized before gamelaunch. I remember i started at september europe game launch and found a price on every item that was all set and decidet what will cost how much. But who decidet it and why? It shud had been a game mechanic that settels itself but it wasnt. That was the first step of the economy road until today that made it as it is. Instead of all our traders stick tougether and stabilize by synchronize the prices for all goods they just keep complaining.