Boundless Economy is on Life Support


#41

That is where the competition was supposed to come in. With more people, you could do things faster (prestige wars between settlements). But players are crying out about that as well. A lot of this player base seems to want to play a single player game in an MMO world and the devs seem to support them. It works, for now, but can it sustain players?


#42

I think the economy is probably finally stabilizing. We had an artificial shortage when one planet was missing 5 million blocks due to the old regen times (this is according to James and he also provided data that highlighted this point in another post). Gem prices were very high in my opinion and should be somewhere around 100 coin per. All I keep reading is people are getting a hundreds in a couple of hours on top of the other resources. If you are getting that many gems then they are not ultra rare.

I do think part of the problem is the number of stores. It seems that we have more stores than players sometime (I know this is not true but looking around it can seem like it). There are no barriers to entry other than crafting the store stand. A player can have multiple stores. Why not do it? It seems like a great way to make coin particularly when you factor in the footfall from just having a store in a good location. I have found some (certainly not all or most) players operating shops that feel entitled to make a profit. That is also a problem. Insisting that the mechanics be change in a way to guarantee shortages so a shop owner can make a profit at the expense of other players seems mean spirited to me.

I will agree with the statement made by @SerpentAI that the game has a couple of different player types. The ones that want the specialization and the ones that want to build (my simplification). I am more in the want to build camp. My personal frustration has been trying to find the things I even want to buy. I might try a few stores but after finding them empty or over priced (IMO) I then decide to just make it myself or get it off of a friend. I am unwilling to spend 30 minutes or more going from store to store to find what I want. If there was a way to know who was selling what and how much they had in stock, I would use such a service. Without it, the universe is big enough that I think it gets frustrating for the person buying. I will participate in the economy, but I did not buy the game to have that be a time sink every time I log into the game. I will do without or make it myself.

I think the threat to tweaking the regen rate lower at this point is you probably create more demand for rented planets. Players that want to build will wait and once the option is offered, I can see them moving away from the public universe. If players find it too expensive or too difficult (in their opinion) to get what they need to build, then rented planets offer them a good option.


#43

This is a really interesting conversation.

I’m not sure it’s correct to label the economy as in recession, or that it was in boom previously. The really cool thing about a player-driven economy is that prices are not set by anything other than the desire to buy, or the desire to sell.

As a shop owner for Grump Store, I don’t spend a lot of time looking at other stores’ prices. I tend to set prices and evolve them over time based on how much of something I actually want to acquire, and then test what they will sell for over time.

If I see a commodity that I can buy cheap and sell high, I’ll probably do that. Is it gouging? You’re free to call it that, but I work on the assumption that other people will make decisions on what they can afford vs what they need to buy based on their own aims. And this will be different for everybody.

Let’s say one player has 1,000 coins and urgently needs rough gems. Sorry, but you’re not going to get much from my store with that. If another player has 100,000 coins and doesn’t urgently need anything, but just needs 100 leaves to complete something and doesn’t want to bother spending the time to get them personally, how much is too much?

In the first instance, the player with 1,000 coins and grand ambitions will be very careful on what they spend. The second player has a lot of money, and doesn’t care so much about how they spend it.

As a shop owner, it’s my job to figure out do I want to be relevant to everybody, or hold out for a few lucky purchases? That’s part of the game. It’s risk vs reward. If you want to have high turnover of goods and enjoy good footfall, then you’ll probably price things more closely together.

Generally, as a rule, I start out with the Double assumption. This is where I will buy something for one price, and sell it for double. After purchase and sales tax is taken into account, that’s not as lucrative as it sounds, but you can make money*

If there are some commodities that don’t sell (low demand) then I might maintain the buy/sell ration, but lower them both - or I might just lower the sell price. The lowest this goes in Grump Store is buy-1c, sell 2c. The highest is probably rough gems, which are buy-360c, sell 750c. Actually, trophies are probably higher, but less bought/sold.

Generally, at the moment, I’d observe that with a reduction in overall players currently, it’s more of a buyer’s market - that means that fewer people are buying, so prices will tend to trend downwards. But this has a knock-on effect, that if fewer people are buying things from shops, then request basket prices/coin amounts will also drop. There are now some commodities that I restock to only 250c, whereas a few weeks ago it might have been 2000c - and partly it’s a reflection of relative income from sales.

It’s also worth pointing out that I manufacture things (eg gem tools/weapons) so I actually take a big chunk out of the store income when I remove rough gems for a mass compact; plus I’ve also been buying a lot of stone from The Stone Shop to go into building the Grump Museum - so the proportions of request basket coins noted above isn’t purely down to a fall in sales.


#44

If we talk about all the beta period since the introduction of plinth (around 2 years)
The economy never reached a central role. Building shop being just a way of recycling stuff you don’t want/need.

I was surprised on the release to see player going for large business. Putting their hopes in the value of coins. This game is not tailored for this. Some people have been seriously mislead ( video trailer doesn’t help :rofl:).


#45

TL/DR My settlement gets nearly no footfall, the money I have is what I can sell to shops or gain from finishing objectives. I choose to mostly farm my own supplies, but I do purchase higher tier tools now and then.

In most MMO(RPGS) all items have a base sell cost. This cost is decided by the shop that it can be sold to. If There was an NPC run shop, maybe one per world, that would buy all excess items, it may set a base for the costs, thereby creating a standard. Perhaps freshly mined rock has no value, and needs to be refined before it does? This would force shop owners to need to set prices to -at least- what the NPCs are buying for if they want to compete for resources. This base price would then give a gauge to judge the value of other products being created.

The problem, as with most recessions, is no one has a reason or desire to spend money. The rich already have what they need, the poor can’t afford to part with what coin they have. Give us an NPC that will 100% take some of our unneeded blocks for some coin and put a limit on how much can be sold in a day/week.


#46

I’ve yet to play an mmo which didn’t have forums rife with ‘the economy is broken’ threads.


#47

If we are truly to have a coin-based economy, there are a a few options to make this happen. Any one or combo of the following.

  1. Auction house or similar. I know, I know… your eyes started to bleed just reading this, and that’s OK because it ain’t gonna happen.

  2. NPC buyers. Same as above, ain’t gonna happen.

  3. Grinding machines to destroy items for coins. Also ain’t gonna happen.

  4. Daily quests; Ain’t gonna happen.

  5. Infinitely repeatable quests. Quests in general are likely a no-go because quests ain’t Boundless.

  6. Coin minting. 1 copper mints into 1 coin, 1 iron into 10, 1 silver into 75, 1 gold into 100, 1 titanium into 150, gems into 200c. New job that gives some items true base value. Minting would probably cost wax because why not.

  7. Pawn shops. This is in line with the Inns, Spas and Taverns thread under suggestions. Interactable special player building with bins where players dump junk and it turns into coin. Similar to a grinder but less boring. Higher tier pawn shops could take higher quality items and offer better return ratios.

Looking for suggestions on other repeatable ways to put coins in AverageJoe’s pocket. Because request baskets aren’t cutting it. And if AverageJoe can’t sell, he literally CAN’T buy. No shops currently accept shells and beads as payment.


#48

This is me through and through. I’ll ask if someone wants to barter before I ask how much they want to sale for. I made a post a month or so ago about why coins arent really needed and why bartering isn’t supported better but basically was told that’s crazy.

It’s a sandbox. People will find what works for them.


#49

@Krollbar

To stimulate the economy, bringing people to central areas is key, as then its convenient for them to buy. I’ve been wanting some reason to come to hubs other than portals and shops since beta. Game rooms were my choice with logic blocks, as what you could then make would be a lot of different combinations and reasons to visit a location. But I think that causes too much lag, that’s why logic blocks didn’t make it in. Other than that taverns and sittable chairs might draw people in, if there was something to do there. In galaxies it was buffs given out by PCs that brought people into a central area to receive them, often for coin, in many muds and mushes in days gone by it was the same. One of the main reasons to visit a central location was to be buffed by players for 30 mins or an hour. Usually at a cost - this could work if the difficulty scales up on T7.

As a side note however hopefully quests are still going to make it in, I believe that was in the main design goal but don’t quote me. Grinding machines to make coin isn’t a bad idea. It won’t solve the economic downturn but it would give use for blocks that don’t have much use, it could also inflate the economy if it wasn’t done right, so it would need a low yield, and that low yield would stimulate the economy somewhat.

I personally don’t think gems will stop at 100c, I think 50 or lower. If I can just pull 20 from the side of a mountain while I am hunting and not even looking, like i did today 50 feet from the portal hub, then they are way too common.


#50

I feel like some of us did know what was coming. @AeneaGames pointed out a specific thing I had done over the last few weeks. Common sense says that once the regen was fixed the gems would be rare but not laughably rare. I’m confident we’ll see them get to around 300-350 and stabilize for a while just like I thought spitter eyes would jump to 300-400ish. I havent checked their prices in a while though so it could be lower or higher now. I tend to base off Krafter’s prices because his top end prices tend to be the marking point most folks use to price lower from.

That said, someone just made a post recently and I’ll look to link back to it, where ‘low levels need something to farm’. Well I’ll tell ya. I’ve done a ‘new player experience’ those smaller mats have been going up in price ever so slightly over the same time period gem prices have come down.

The economy is still insane right now. There are demands for specific things at the same time right now due to all the new leveling. It’s creating high demand low volume trading when each group of people hit those points where you need those resources. When less people level the ‘orthodox’ way and more level up with rock/stone spam those lower end resources become more valuable.


#51

Right out side my door is a mud flat, then some peat and clay ,and a little Ash all within 50m. So it’s easy for me to gather but I usually can’t be bothered so I buy it at 3c.


#52

this is so obvious that the economy doesnt only live from the content generated right now, but also of the prospect of more content that the devs introduce in the future. sales are going down cause everyone starting to save coins to buy future content as quick as possible near release.

that material is abundant and u need a constant giant influx of coin to balance this: i told u so and u didnt wanna listen.

The problem with sales is this: stuff is sometimes easier to find and mine at the deposit than searching shops for good prices. Shopping sometimes cost more time than breaking the stuff out of rocks, especially when u wanna swap ressouces coinless


#53

The bolded part is a byproduct of the world we live in today. If you have a family, a job, and other activities but like to game you can only play in short spurts in time. The gaming community has evolved as it has aged. A lot of us who grew up with the internet and early gaming in the 90’s have 9-5 jobs, 2-3 kids who have drama/theatre/sports/recitals/special needs, and then we have a spouse and friends to give attention to… but we still enjoy gaming. I have 30-45 mins in my day that I would consider free time, and smaller spurts throughout the day where I can read/post/take in daily news. A large chunk of the gaming population today is like me.

You also have many retired individuals who enjoy gaming and are able to put in those huge chunks of time that we did when we were younger. That’s never changed. That same demographic was involved in early online gaming as well. Bunch of young folks with plenty of time and a bunch of retired folks with a bunch of time.

So how does a game balance between those 2 demographics? you have the two ends with lots of time to devote and you have the middle who really enjoy gaming but don’t have the time that is needed. It’s why I bought this game on the PS4. I thought it would be super friendly to that middle demographic like myself. I was wildly wrong. But I enjoy it, so my 30-45 mins of free time I get, I tend to spend it running around hammering ■■■■ and checking out peoples new builds and watching things get dismantled after events, like the happy halloween skull that was created on the hills of Grindstone.


#54

btw im a real fan of the spawn rate right now. Makes everything less finding luck based, but gathering efficiency scales much better with skills and tools.

And to everyone who says this kills the economy due to lower sales: maybe u should consider bringing down ur prices? now that many people starting to gather with forged gem tools it is obvious (at least for me) that shops need to adapt their prices to that or accept lower sale numbers. This economy is not broken: its exactly functioning like it should.


#55

The new regen is on point. Who wants to go to a buffet but all the food has been eaten?


#56

Money in this game only serves as a substitute for time. There is nothing that is unlocked or obtained with money that can’t be obtained by playing. There are no barriers to any aspect of the game due to money. I have never purchased an item in this game and I can’t imagine that I ever would. The only item I’ve ever sold are ort stones to the portal folks and I always look for their cheapest baskets. If I want something, I gather it and make it.

But everyone can play how they like. That’s the beauty of a boundless game.


#57

yet money lets u bypass ressource bottle-necks (real or perceived) and material and effort requirements. U can make gem tools only if u climbed the gem wall. or u can buy ur gem tools and then scale this wall with less effort and maximized efficiency (although its debatable if those tools are wasted on low lvl player). Point is not that i can climb the wall without those tools anyway. The point is that u cant climb this wall with gem tools without using community and economy


#58

Hey Salvatory- Let me clarify myself: I believe collaboration will definitely result in more progress on a variety of levels whether that be building, hunting or whatever. But with the amount of alts we are able to generate at such ease, we can all be self sufficient without relying on others. I believe most aspects of this game is soloable. That’s the primary issue I have with the game. It’s an MMO but most things are soloable.

Personally, I believe I have a successful shop and I’ll continue to do well. But that’s at the micro level. At the macro level, I am concerned about the bigger picture and how the community or game will do given we can all just solo most aspects of this game.

I’ve been thinking about it for the last couple months. I continue to be on the fence if I want to start a guild or not. I would like to share my knowledge and help others but I also know having a guild is work. I’m not poor so wealth enrichment isn’t really my goal anymore. But I think I’m just waiting to see what type of content the game releases in the next few months to help me decide if I want to stick with it.


#59

it is actually great that u can solo this game. i wouldnt prefer a game where u bound to rely on others


#60

Might want to check out Taco Land in the Ultima Finata shopping hub. I’m buying ores constantly as well as gems (paying 450 for diamonds and 500+ for everything else atm). I do have other request baskets as well but things are still being organized. Most prices should be reasonable. I will do handoff purchases/sales to circumvent the tax as well if you see me around for a better price point.

I’ve been building out my shop with the concept of not wanting to ask for resources at a price less than I personallywould be willing to sell for elsewhere, I’m also selling most crafted items at a price I’d be willing to buy so most things are cheaper than what I see elsewhere (although that’s not guaranteed). Only time my prices go up for selling is when I also increase payout for the items being requested to craft said items.

A lot of our town has reasonable other shops for buying/selling as well if my portal store doesn’t have what you’re looking for.