Oh I got what you were saying.
But because the average player isn’t commited enough doesn’t mean those who are shouldn’t get an extra compensation for their effort toward the community.
For that, you can also extrapolate that if we start rewarding people who make things for the community, more people might get into opening portals for the community.
I would start making public mines with public portals to big hubs if I could get better than the scraps of footfall I’d get currently.
I have no idea what’s the design goals of portals and relation to footfall, but isn’t it the same amount of work to run an interplanetary portal that generates enough passive footfall to pay for itself? That’s what portal hubs do right?
…? No?.. Hub to hub connections require alot more fuel, and therefore more cost to run, therefore the effort to maintain a Hub to Hub connection is far greater then to maintain a Shop to Hub connection, Or Farm To Hub connection.
If portal hubs are indeed making enough coin that all their portals are 100% free to run… I find that hard to believe since Portal Seekers redesigned most of their portal hubs for maximal footfall generation. but maybe that was enough to push it over.
but even if it was all free, Portal hub controllers also have logistical efforts to overcome which do not apply to farm/shop owners. so the effort on portal hub owners is higher.
Maybe I totally misunderstand your question?
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I think maybe you should be allowed to run a free portal if you identify and set up a portal that many people find useful. Currently though, this is done by measuring traffic across a plot so it means you can also get paid for being in the way. And you can make more by inserting obstacles.
This relates to my comment earlier in the thread. The only really ‘useful’ build you can make that isn’t inherently earning coins already (i.e. a shop) is a portal and IMO just actually paying for portal use would be preferable to paying for incidental traffic as it is now.
I think this would clean things up a lot. Also as long as the fueling side earns the coin it would likely relieve a lot of the resentment people seem to feel against hub owners, myself sometimes included.
And by “clean things up” I’m not just talking about random builds but the number of beacons, amount of traffic tracking, and whatever client server load is generated by 30 beacon + hubs and the like.
I’m just assuming that ultima and PS are net positive in their income from the footfall, especially since they designed for it. But that’s just an assumption.
The point was that the amount of effort needed to build and then maintain an interplanetary portal (which, when congregated together create a network) is the same as building the portal to the farm, placing down portal conduits. Then fueling that portal to keep the people coming.
So as you said, the question is, should it be possible to generate enough income passively to maintain it? Maybe it’s as you said and even high traffic places like portal hubs absolutely have to design with footfall in mind to exist (PS, Ultima Eresho).
A single farm, yes. What about farm hubs?
I think it’s odd in this game that there is conversation after conversation of how some people don’t like the way others are earning coin & try to think of ways to change/remove/lower it.
FF will never really benefit “pure” builders in this game because once you’ve seen their awesome build, you’ve seen it. There’s no incentive or reason to see it again. That’s the fault of the game, not the builder, nor the other players.
Until we have more interactive blocks, things to do, & content in this game, there’s nothing that players can offer “visitors” besides a shop or portals. That is not an exploit, it’s not a mentality problem, it’s not an issue of philosophy, it’s not people being mean to others, it’s not players being greedy…it’s players playing the game in it’s current form, using the tools that are currently available.
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I do think people spend more time holding players accountable for their actions than holding the Developers accountable for their game design. This probably happens because we all interact with players and their builds constantly in the game and not developers. So our focus remains on players and their actions.
I do think it is ok for people to share their views on how they feel the game should be played. As well as whether they feel others follow that mindset or not. It is ok to bring to light players choices on how they play the game. It helps us to have a conversation around in and determine the values that people hold as important in game play.
I do think, though, if you are going to argue for it or against it, you need a well thought out plan that takes into consideration of all aspects of the game.
People that like FF and leverage slides for it need to consider how they might cause nerfing or other changes to it. People that dislike FF need to consider options on how to provide income in the game or design a system where no income is needed.
I am talking about the smallest portals. These cost you about 2000c per week. This might not be a lot for you but it is for me. I don’t hunt and buy the shards. That’s my fault, but that’s how I play the game.
Piggy back of Portal Seekers is not an option, because they only allow shop portals or personal portals.
And if you expect visitors you should make it more convenient to get there then just a random network. People are lazy, but I can’t change that if I want them to visit me. 
But what I really dislike is that the game doesn’t offer me a way to get money from visitors, besides running a shop. I would like to build something for the community, and be able to pay the portal from it. And that’s nearly impossibly. I want to be an engineer, not a charity.
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Lately I’d been thinking I could set up a communal farm (for crops) at my place, and unfortunately, one of my main thoughts was actually “but how would this benefit me?” and the answer that I could find was simply “it can’t”.
Why? Because it wouldn’t be my intention to have a shop for anything. I don’t think it’d be worth my time to try and run a shop alongside a communal farm.
All I’d be wanting to do would be to provide plot spaces in a convenient location, with access to several hub locations on the same world, but at the same time, while that might make my build popular, assuming people even want to use communal farms, there’s no real way for it to reward me, and the current permissions system is simply not granular enough to allow me to set up plots where people can do activities like that with safety of mind that I, the owner of the area, won’t interfere somehow.
So yeah, this statement really does reflect how I feel at times:
This isn’t the first time I’ve had a communal type idea and it probably won’t be the last, but it’s sad that I just can’t find a good reason, to personally, invest myself into a project like that.
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I think this is for the devs to consider & figure out tbh. It’s their game & we’re playing what they’ve given us. People will always play games differently for different reasons. If the devs decide to change things along the way, after they see how players react to or use something, that’s cool. I can tell that they are reading suggestions & try to make good changes. I’m not dumping on anyone.
I get tired of seeing players come to the forums & attack others for how they play or don’t play. How people play is limited by what tools/mechanics the game has presented to them.
There are a few problems with this game that keep coming up over and over. With the big farming update coming out, I’m concerned about the new players that will come in & have to experience the whole plot/beacon/ff/expiring issue.
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Yes! We have people at odds because of fundamental game mechanics and how we choose to play them. This being at odds causes conflicts and misunderstanding especially via a text based communication method.
We keep having the same groups start to go at each other and it causes problems. I took something @AeneaGames said this morning completely out of context and got defensive and replied in a way that didn’t help things and wasn’t fair to Aenea considering her intention. I take responsibility for that but I think the game problems contribute to a lot of the drama we see on the forums. People assume things on both sides of the camp and this drama doesn’t help solve anything with the game.
All I can do is really hope that the Developers see the conflict around these “repeating problems” and that a lot of it is based on them trying to merge game play styles together into the same world with some game mechanics that are lacking. Hopefully they will take is serious and start fixing things soon… Otherwise I fear that more people might try the game and then leave like you mention with the Farming update.
I certainly don’t want a game that continues to have strife both in it and in the forums. I want people to build things they enjoy but not impact other players and what they enjoy. That is going to be hard in a shared world like this…
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