Community input needed: system design goals

[Yawaly]

-Combat systems: the combat system should feel immersive and give me control over my actions, how i attack and when i attack

Crafting systems: the crafting system should feel logical and creative but it shouldn’t be to complex to craft specific items, while very valuable items are allowed to be a bit more complex

Construction systems it should be more for creative and dilligent players while not focused to hard and realistic physics

Progression systems people should get better and gain abilities in things they do mostly by just doing it but partly by finishing special tasks or gaining special gear in general

Player custimisation systems people should be able to look unique amongst others while this shouldn’t be to overloaded

Titan systems Titans should vary and not feel all the same, some you can fight alone others will aquire 20 people, the skills of the titans should vary as much as possible (as mach as you manage to do )

Beacon/land claiming systems the size of the area a beacon could claim should a first set to a starting value. You should be able to raise the size of a beacon over time with different ways (upgrading it with special items, or by adding more people as “owners” of the beacon") ,

Guild systems there should never be a limit of the size of a guild, working together in a guild should be somehow rewarding

[VEXUS]

I want a

[Zuonius]

THIS POST HAS BEEN RECREATED FOR DISCUSSION HERE

-Combat Systems:

THE PROBLEM
I know a lot of people have been commenting on how the combat system should make you feel in control of how you are fighting. In other words, we don’t want to select a target and have our characters start auto attacking while we wait on a bar full of cooldowns. There’s too much to keep track of in modern MMORPG combat systems and, usually, it all comes down to who spent the most time crunching the numbers and grinding the hours. In fact, this kind of combat system can drive away players who come to Oort to explore and build.

THE SOLUTION
The combat system should implement a simple and efficient control scheme that allows for dynamic combat maneuvers. A good combat system should also include quick engagement/disengagement of enemies. Here, in steps, I will describe such a system:

Targeting
*This would work just like the targeting system in The Ocarina of Time (and a few other Zelda games)

1. Target your enemy by looking at them, waiting until a small red arrow appears above them, and then hold/toggle the Target Mode key. While targeted, an enemy stays centered on screen. (Camera locks on like in Zelda, remember?)
2. While you are in target mode: Use the A and D keys to strafe clockwise and counterclockwise around the target. Use W and S to move closer or further from your target.

Attacking
Since the targeting system only requires one hand, the players mouse-pushing hand is free to do some damage!

1. While in attack mode, hold the left/right/both mouse button to bring up the corresponding “Ability Wheel”. (Example: hold LMB to bring up attacks, RMB for dodges/blocks/reflects, and both mouse buttons for items) Each ability wheel has 4 slots: Top, Bottom, Left, and Right.
2. Now that one (or two) of the mouse buttons are being held and the ability wheel is up, drag the mouse toward the slot with the ability you wish to use. The selected slot will be highlighted.
3. Let go of the mouse button (or buttons) once the ability you wish to use has been highlighted. The ability will be used. If you are out of range of your target for a specific ability, the ability will be grayed out and wont cast.

EXAMPLE
So thats it… Now let me walk you guys through an example of how this system could come in handy while fighting something.

-Fighting a Titan: You’re a rogue-like class, quick and nimble. A giant, walking rock wants to smash you and his only weakness seems be his big soft eyes. You gotta stab them… But his head is too high up. Fortunately, as a rogue, you can use the right mouse button to bring up your evasive ability wheel to dive/roll in 4 different directions to avoid attacks while your camera stays focused on the Titan. Even more fortunately, you have a grappling hook assigned to your item wheel (both mouse buttons). You engage the titan by first looking at him. Looks like he has multiple target-indicators, aim for an eye. When you’re ready, grapple hook him in the face; your grapple hook has a +20 retraction rate so you should be close to his face almost instantaneously. Now use the LMB to bring up the attacks wheel and go nuts on his eyeballs when you are close enough (rogue attacks have short cooldowns). You can use the grapple hook again to disengage it, or use a backwards evasion ability to disengage the grappling hook and backflip off of his face at the same time.

TLDR; Target-lock system like Legend of Zelda, use mouse-button(s) to bring up ability selection wheel (think GTA weapon selection with only 4 slots.)

Note: It would probably be nifty to allow certain items and objects to be targeted as well. This opens up a lot of possibilities as far as dungeon design and game progression. Example: Your wooden newbie knife won’t cut through the thick patch of vines blocking you from the jungle dungeon.

Edit: Hopefully this mockup helps. The Charger can be targeted on the head or the rear. The ability wheels replace the toolbar in combat mode.

[Nyuudles]

I think this was already suggested (only read the TLDR) or kind of similar to what you said.

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/combat-mechanics/1747/7

[Zuonius]

wut

Well it’s not exactly the same thing. But, wow, that is a very uncanny resemblance.

You should definitely read my whole post though because the details are pretty crucial to keeping the system dynamic and adaptable to classes while still feeling simple and quick.

Edit:
Also, a locking targeting system keeps you from having to aim while also using the mouse to select abilities.

[KuroKuma]

First, classes in the traditional way (wow etc.) are a no-go fir most uf us. If you just meant a classification for someone who specialized in something, then I said nothing^^

The system in zelda never felt good for me. The fights were lame or unfair. That wasn’t only because of the locking system. So you could change it to the better. But would it fit into Oort?
Such a system does 2 things I dislike.

1. It gives away possible weak points of enemies.
2. It restricts the combat to attacks to certain points on the enemy.
   And I’d imagine, that it would need more time to implement such a target system then simple hitzones on the enemy body.

About the skillwheels: It’s not a bad idea but I think it would favor playing with a controller.
You’re right that you don’t need to look around so your mouse is free. But such a system makes it almost impossible to be used without targeting.
And to press two buttons at the same time, which are used for individual actions isn’t a good idea in dynamic combat.
At least I would always use the wrong things^^

[Sverchekovich]

Combat systems

1. All characters should be capable of all roles, with special racial abilities specific to race creating a sense of diversity and effectiveness.

2. Combat effectiveness should be a sum total of -
   a. Player skill (hand/eye, understanding/mastery of game mechanics).
   b. Progression through skill advancement (character skills such as melee, ranged, magic, etc).
   c. Progression through weapon advancement (high level/rare items, whether crafted or dropped). i.e. peashooters should be ineffective against Titans, and a Mace of Ancient Doorknobs +5 should kill rats in one shot.

3. Damage should take place within a range that includes random variability. ie. A wooden bow does 5-10 damage. A 10 is a critical hit and can be further augmented by a particular character skill (bows, critical hits, etc)

Crafting systems

1. Tiered progression related to skills (skills such as Dirt, Wood, Stone, Bronze, Iron, Steel, etc)

2. Some random variability where crafting Wooden Blocks might result in a Gnarled Wooden Block only 0.1% of the time, leading to rare components for rare items.

3. Should the instrument or instruments used for crafting be mobile (character can craft deep in the field/backcountry) or should crafting require the presence of non-mobile devices (a kiln located in a character’s house or capital)? I’m still up in the air over this consideration.

4. Consider offering a system that allows a skilled character to take a chance to ‘overcharge’ a crafted item for a very small chance of creating a very powerful item or enchantment. If failed the components would be lost and nothing would be created. This would offer several benefits - skilled characters capable of such feats will be sought after, the rare items would be very special and sought after as well, it will create a destructive process that allows components and/or currency to leave the game which helps maintain a balanced and healthy economy.

Construction systems

1. Simple click to build, click to destroy for single blocks.

2. The ability to use a tool like a highlighter to select and highlight blocks in order to create macros or copyable blueprints to create smooth mass production (if one builds a 3x3 cube they should be able to highlight it, copy it, and paste it in order to create mass production). This would allow for smooth teamwork and cooperative building on large projects.

3. The blueprints mentioned above could be a saved macro with a maximum block size that could be saved in a designated guild blueprint storage chest offering only limited storage. This would allow members to save and share useful/common macros among members and friends.

Progression systems

1. All skills, both combat and non-combat, should be progressive (eg. 1 - 100)

2. Consider offering all characters one skill of their choosing that can be taken beyond the standard hardcap (eg. to 110), therefore allowing them access to the rarest of items and crafting options within a narrow field (Bows - 110 would allow a character to use a very rare crafted bow that can only be crafted using a component drop from a Titan that requires a crafting skill of Wood 110 to be made, but the same character cannot both make and use the bow). This would create some variety from character to character and incentivize cooperative planning among characters in guilds. Just an idea. It could draw from idea #4 above in crafting. Maybe only those skilled to 110 in a field are capable of special attacks or overcharging a crafted item as I mentioned above.

3. Some degree of destructive processes that allow for money and items to permanently leave the game. I intend on creating a thread on this topic.

Player customisation systems

1. Players should inherently look unique due to race and character creation choices, but further customization should be very in-depth, potentially offering rare drop costumes or items that can be placed in vanity slots that have no effect other than appearance.

2. Instead of the above, limiting vanity options so that worn gear determines appearance, which allows a character’s role to be known and understood at a glance.

Titan systems

1. Titans should require groups of no more than a dozen people or so, and no less than five or six.

2. Killing a titan should require a reasonable commitment in time, no more than an hour. If a Titan takes longer to take down it will cause a massive change in the concentration of the server’s population, as people come from all over to try to get a share in the kill.

3. Killing a Titan should require quite a bit of skill and a solid mastery of in-game mechanics and cooperation. That should be the main focus of the fight - skill and cooperation.

4. There should be multiple types of Titans, each dropping different components.

5. Titans should drop a variety of things - components for crafting, maybe a trophy or decoration for a character’s home, maybe a vanity item or costume, maybe every Titan kill leaves a single mote of light floating around one’s character… so that veteran Titan killers can be spotted immediately… or maybe a scar or a tattoo… similar to the Ta Moko of the Maori.

Beacon / land claiming systems

1. There should be a LOT of real estate… so much so that spotting another character will be rare if one so chooses. Imagine walking for a long while to a remote area that is only accessible by walking/riding/flying and finding a small city that belongs to an individual or guild that has been choosing to remain hidden. Those moments are very special in gaming, and lend a genuine sense of exploration and adventure.

2. No character or guild should be able to claim all the land in a world.

3. Beacons should extend in a sphere in all directions above and below ground for a given distance.

4. However, rare resources can be monopolized. Maybe the above guild has chosen to remain so secretive because their town resides on top of a rare vein of ore. They should be able to claim that vein within their guild beacon’s range, and should receive some defensive advantage in protecting it.

5. Personal or guild beacons could provide a notification to a player, either through a live message and/or journal entry, that another character that is not on an ‘approved list’ is now within their beacon’s range. No specifics other than that should be offered.

6. Beacons should prevent the building of most, if not all, structures by someone else within their range. If there is a structure that can be built within the range of someone else’s beacon, then that structure should quickly degrade over time. Maybe that particular building is required in order to attack someone else’s beacon, creating the need for teamwork (someone to repair, defend, and maintain the building while others go to attack the beacon).

7. Single-player beacons should not require maintenance. Real life gets in the way. People take vacations, have hard times, can’t find time to make it in the game. Players with a life or event outside the game shouldn’t be saddled with heavy maintenance. Guild beacons should require maintenance.

8. The broadcast distance of a guild beacon should relate directly to the individuals within the guild. For example, maybe the broadcast distance of a guild beacon is the simple mean average of each individual member’s beacon distance divided by the total number of members. Founders with a beacon bonus would therefore offer more to a guild by providing a better beacon broadcasting distance.

Guild systems

1. There should be a hardcap on guild size, therefore preventing massive guilds that dominate servers.

2. There should be guild bonuses that must be chosen and are mutually exclusive. Maybe ten options - 10% PVP damage, 10% PVE damage, 10% crafting yield, 10% mining yield, etc). Only one can be chosen at any given time. Maybe they can be changed periodically for a fee.

3. There should be an economic cost for operating a guild to create another money/commodity sink within the game.

4. Guilds should have tiered sizes dependent upon membership. In order to go up to the next tier a fee has to be paid, that would allow more members and new privileges (larger guild bank, storage, guild hall, etc).

My apologies for being wordy. More ideas to come.

[Kerpie]

i agree with almost everything here apart from the blueprint bit do you mean like it would set up a wireframe that you need to fill in, or would it be just copy and paste entire houses making things seem too easy

[Sverchekovich]

I should have elaborated upon that idea. I was thinking about blueprints that could be added to a guild bank of prints, for example. I’ll add it to my post now!

[KuroKuma]

building:
“Simple click to build, click to destroy for single blocks”
How do you think that’s possible? Do you go in a building mode?

Blueprints still seem like copy paste so it’s a no go.

I really want to get every level (if there will be something like that), so no “only one lvl 110 skill” for me.

titans:
Then again the question: How do you intend to force the players to make groups uf at least people to kill a titan?

On the same note, Titans should NOT drop anything like costumes or gold or weapons. That wouldn’t make sense at all.

beacon/land claiming:
There will be a looooot of land to discover. That’s a given by the devs.
However monopolizing ressources isn’t going to happen to such an extend, since the terrain will recover and the ressources will respawn at a random location.

The rest sounds not so bad to me^^ and sorry for the chaotic formatting, I’m on mobile right now

[Zouls]

@KuroKuma

Then again the question: How do you intend to force the players to make groups uf at least people to kill a titan?

make it smack them to death everytime they try to solo? eventually they will realize,

also this post is not for discussions, this is purely for posting what we would like to see from the different aspects of the game, trust me, i have lots of propsed things i would like to question, but that is not the point of this thread, so i dont

[KuroKuma]

yea, you might be right^^
Sometimes I just can’t stop myself.

[Sverchekovich]

@KuroKuma

building:
“Simple click to build, click to destroy for single blocks”
How do you think that’s possible? Do you go in a building mode?

I should have elaborated, but I was trying to keep my wordy post as short and concise as possible. It’s basically the system we have now. Click (or hold mouse button) with a tool or with a block to destroy or build. I was just agreeing with the current system.

@KuroKuma

Blueprints still seem like copy paste so it’s a no go.

They are indeed a copy/paste… with a size limit, which I mentioned. Would having a macro saved that can copy/paste 12 or 20 blocks really be game breaking? I’m not talking about a copy/paste of hundreds of blocks. Maybe 20 or 30 at most. But I certainly can see a downside in that it would allow more elaborate/larger structures to be built more quickly with less time, which would ultimately detract from the beauty and appreciation to be found in those who work to build truly complex or elaborate structures one block at a time.

@KuroKuma

I really want to get every level (if there will be something like that), so no “only one lvl 110 skill” for me.

Your above quote is no different than saying, ‘I really want a Ferrari, so I deserve a Ferrari.’ Your personal desire doesn’t dictate what is good or bad for game design. Give me a reason. Explain your reasoning. Don’t just say that because you don’t want something that it doesn’t belong in the game.

To play Devil’s Advocate, the benefit of having to choose a single skill that can be raised beyond a hardcap creates diversity in characters and roles. Otherwise everyone will simply be a cookie cutter of everyone else, with no variation from character to character. Everyone can do everything, so there will be no relying upon others for their particular skill or expertise.

However, to argue against my point, having such a system would mean that some in-game mechanisms and creations would be directly dependent upon player choice and character design. If everyone chose to push some combat skill to 110 instead of a crafting skill then there would be a shortage of characters who are capable of crafting end-game items. Also, Titan dropped components would likely go to crafters unless a system was in place to craft items using components held in possession by other people. (This reminds me of something to add to my post, or to add to the thread!)

@KuroKuma

titans:
Then again the question: How do you intend to force the players to make groups uf at least people to kill a titan?

Zouls answered this perfectly. Players will be forced to cooperate. That’s what well-designed game mechanics do.

@KuroKuma

On the same note, Titans should NOT drop anything like costumes or gold or weapons. That wouldn’t make sense at all.

But, somehow, Titans roaming a beautiful and fantastic block world filled with players from all over the world that are killing rats and crafting items from dirt and clay somehow makes perfect sense? Again, you are offering no reasoning or explanation. Explain to me how costumes or currency being dropped from a Titan would be game breaking…? Please.

@KuroKuma

beacon/land claiming:
There will be a looooot of land to discover. That’s a given by the devs.
However monopolizing ressources isn’t going to happen to such an extend, since the terrain will recover and the ressources will respawn at a random location.

True, but something can be monopolized for a finite amount of time. Until the new supply of that resource is found then that guild will be holding the only supply, unless it is taken from them.

[Okysp]

Alot of people are talking about combat etc so I’ll bring up something I feel is missing.

-> Trading: I want to feel I bring something unique to the market which in turn gives me a reason to buy and sell.

Be it through materials only found in the area where I reside or through “unique crafting” (I have however understood that everyone will be able to craft everything, which means that trading will be dead if not some other aspect gives us a reason to trade)

[Sverchekovich]

Crafting Systems

1. A system should be designed that allows cooperative crafting, meaning that two different people can hold two separate supplies of components, but can fuse them together into one item, and the output of that crafting can be selected and agreed to by both (or multiple parties, maybe up to four parties).

For example, two or three or four different players hold incomplete components (let’s say these components are rare drops from different Titan kills) that together will create a very rare item or weapon. However, only one character has the crafting skill necessary to make the item. Instead of having to hand over the components to the crafter in hopes that they are trustworthy, a crafting window can be opened that allows those components to be cooperatively crafted by the necessary character, without the others handing those components over. After the item is crafted it remains in the crafting window until all present characters in the crafting window select who will receive the item.

[KuroKuma]

I’m not sure if I should discuss all these things with you here. After all zouls is right and this shouldn’t be a discussion thread. If you want too discuss it nonetheless. Please create a new thread so all the discussion about your ideas can happen there.

Some of my answers were a little bit short because for me it’s the x-th time to repeat the same statment over and over. Sorry, for that. Maybe you come across some of my more elaborate answers in the forum. All of the problems I have with your ideas were already talked about by me somewhere. Or I’ll try to explain them again to you in the new thread^^ Whatever you like better.

[zeathoros]

Guild members should be easily identifiable, whether its your guild or a rival guild.

[auralynne]

Okay attempt at brevity, here we come!

- Combat systems
Skill based, gear enhanced, with multiple roles, or at minimum multiple playstyles.
- Crafting systems
Simple to craft things everyone needs, but complex system for cooler stuff like engines. Viable option to play as a crafter.
- Construction systems
Blocks that aren’t blocky. Pieces that function like architectural moulding and corbels, modeled in oort style, would be nice. Slopes for building, accent blocks with different shapes. Various windows, various railings, cyllinder or hexagon blocks, and other decorative elements to detract from the “square-ness” of surroundings.
- Progression systems
Progression system that allows builder, explorer, and fighter playstyle to progress. For instance, nothing construction related that can only be obtained by fighting.
- Player customisation systems
Customize look with colors, styles, and sliders, but recognizable to race. Ability to be pretty!
- Titan systems
Varying difficulty per type/titan - for something like 3-5 players, then 6-10, and eventually rare titans for large groups of coordinated players
- Beacon / land claiming systems
Irregular shaped beacons, and small beacons. No fuel required for active players, but can use fuel to extend inactivity timer for planned absences.
- Guild systems
Very advantageous but not necessary to be part of a guild. No guild features that penalize guilds with players with limited game time.

[Armin321]

• Combat systems (Fast paced action fight with no target system)
• Crafting systems ( Allow craft weapons, armors, outfits, interactive furnitures)
• Construction systems (More shapes than slopes and squares, how about spheres?)
• Progression systems ( Free skills progression system, we can be any class we want, warrior, archer or mage)
• Player customisation systems (Cosmetic items?) ( weapons should appear on character backs, like a shield or sword we can see in a lot of mmorpgs)
• Titan systems (Raide group dynamic combat)
• Beacon / land claiming systems (In any world anywhere)
• Guild systems (Buffs for all members? IDK…)

[hunniekiller]

- Combat systems: more weapons and more diversity like crosbows, shortbows, longbows and throwables.

- Crafting systems: recipes could either be as they are now(have something and craft it directly for example sticks --> torches) or give recipes more components and so a little bit more gatherhing time (sticks, coals --> torches) for example.

- Construction systems: Maybe a options to craft slabs or walls back into their original blocks?

- Progression systems: Different tiers of weapons or tools.
Maybe unlocking subsytems like automated crafting or automated resource gathering( farming and minerals).
Also more types of ore would be nice.

- Player customisation systems: Body types or different models rather than scaling.

- Titan systems: bosses that could be done with multiple people or just solo (maybe scaling hp and or stats).
The creature should definitly be somewhat unique since it is suposed a challange/high rank monster.

- Beacon / land claiming systems: player should be able to craft beacons but all should share the same amount of claiming blocks.
Claiming blocks would be gathered by playing time since a active player with a 100 hours should have a larger base than a player that just joined.

- Guild systems: Not really anything special but trading between guild members through a block/board or guild members posting requests would be nice.
Quest could be anything from a “gather x amount of this” or “deliver some construction materials”.
With such a system it would be nice if the reward is also displayed on the request and could be automaticly claimed once it’s conditions are met.