Conflicts Between Block-Building and Combat

I noticed this idea got brought up in a thread about combat a while ago and it’s been on my mind ever since. Before getting into it I want to point out that I’ve noticed this game is attracting fans of some pretty different genres who seem to all want different things. Primarily and understandably we can be sorted into those whom are seeking experiences similar to survival minecraft and those seeking experiences similar to the standard mmos such as ESO, WoW, or GW2. Why not both?

Given that first and third person view can be toggled on and off at will already, why not simply toggle the controls and ui as well so that in first person you have access to crafting menus and the block hotbar at the bottom, while left and right click function as normal but change that during third person. In third person, numbers 1 through 0 would be a standard skill hotbar and you can no longer place or destroy blocks. Similarly the menu that would pop up would be a separate one with gear and all the usual stuff found in MMOs. I imagine this would be the longer, harder route to take and pull off but it seems to me the one option with the fewest compromises on both sides.

Lemme know your thoughts and sorry for the lack of polish or detail – I’m in the back room at work writing this on my phone.

Edit: I have updated the title to hopefully broaden the discussion a bit beyond camera angles.


i want to fight in first person

The idea could be extended to a toggle between mmo controls and block builder controls, that way while in mmo mode you would be able to uss thre scroll wheel to zoom into first person view, as a potential compromise for those who want first person combat.

There was already the idea to have a toggle between crafting and combat mode. I wish those not bound to the kind of view, cuz I love fighting first person AND third person, To connect this to the switch of the view would be a limitation, not an advancement.

yeah binding it to view is just… not a good a idea. let me say that much.

also i am paraphrasing ben here, he said something along the lines of ‘‘we will pick if the game will be first or third person when the time comes, but it is not just so simple as changing a few setting to make both modes work’’

i hope they pick 1 view. i am for options, however if you add both first and third person, then you are almost forcing the person to play in third, because you just have so much more awareness.

i have played ESO, quite a while, and they do it, i know that even though you can play in first and third, almost everybody does combat in third. because to be honest, it makes the game so much easier which means third person will always be superior in that sense

so again, they will most likely pick one or the other, not both.

EDIT: apparently it was james who said it, and here is the direct quote ‘‘Combat changes dramatically between 1st and 3rd person. It’s sadly not as cheap as just moving the camera. But it’s being discussed / explored. A few people have been asking about it.’’

Even if there are good points in playing third person I would like to have first person available in both modes, especially if ranged weapons and aiming are a mayor point in the gameplay. I allways play shooters in first person, even if third person is available. Am I better if I chose to play on this way? - may be no, but it feels better and feeling in a game is more important then pure kill numbers for me.

Edit: And when I had to chose only one way of view in the game I would prefer first person most. Third person is nice (especially in melee combat), but everything also works good in first person (like many shooters and rpgs had proven before (The TES row just as one example. Also, the first person view better fits into the “Survival MMO theme” as which Oort is planed :wink:

indeed. i would also prefer to play in pure firstperson for oort, because i dont really think third person suits this game. but it is all about whether or not it is doable to have 2 modes. if it then it is fine, if we have to pick one i would prefer first person. if they do have 2 modes then dont limit the modes, let people play the mode they want.

im just telling you that you have to keep in mind the fact that the camera modes are huge factors in games, for things like immersion, awareness, acurracy etc, they are all in the link i posted.

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Anyone else here play Space Marine? That was a game that did 3rd person combat right, imo.

The warhammer 40k? yeah i did, pretty nice for a shooter. but dont you think alot of people did 3rd person right in their games?

No, I really don’t. Especially shooters, 3rd person combat feels imprecise and clunky, and usually has terrible camera angle issues. A lot of them also rely on locking targets which robs the skill factor. Space marine used 3rd person as shooting from the hip and melee but switched to first person for precision sighting. Space marine also had a simplified combo system that worked equally well for ranged or melee combat on both a keyboard and controller. Lastly, those 3rd person view executions… aaaah… so satisfying.

I feel like gears did it the best, they made the characters feel weighted as oppose to other games that makes your character jar and twitch when moving around quickly, and anyone who has played the previous unreal tournaments or the newest one knows its purely a preference rather then which is best as far as action goes.

I honestly feel 3rd person is best for this game for most things, anyone would honestly get tired of only being able to see yourself in menus and item equips, plus trove is doing this without fail, noone really complains about not having a 1st person mode, and it stamps the mmo aspect of the game, take away 3rd person and its back to minecraft esk gameplay that people will quickly get tired of, i see this happening to sky saga in the late game for sure…

Alright so I’m seeing a lot of the same general idea of “don’t bind it to camera perpectives!!” and fair enough – maybe that’s not the best approach. The basic idea was to come up with a way to do the following:

  • Provide meaningful/useable third person gameplay
  • Provide a way to utilize the number keys, mouse buttons, and scroll wheel for both combat and building
  • Address what kind of menus and UIs are needed
  • Do all this with fewest compromises to both styles of gameplay

So I’ll being back to the drawing board and refine my ideas soon when I have time and I’ll edit the title to something a little more generalized. As always, I enjoy any and all input :smile:

again. just take remember james’ words ‘‘it is not as easy as people think’’ meaning there will most likely only be 1 gamemode, and i imagine it is going to be first person. given the style of the game.

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Alright. Perhaps “game-modes” was a bit of a misnomer. I maintain though, however it’s accomplished, that certain issues might become points of contention amongst certain players and it’s simply my intention to start a discussion that might help iron these things out. The easiest, the ideal, and the best solutions for any problem rarely match up as the same so on that front I’m less concerned; however, on the one subject, I do maintain that if character creation and equipment even approaches what we can see in the early concept art on the main website then third-person playability will be something that needs to be considered. Even Destiny which is entirely a first person shooter realized that players would want the ability to see their characters in third person perspective and added their “social areas” to accommodate.

Quoting ben

''Whatever the primary camera during play is, we’ll try to make sure there’s a good way to see your character so you can take virtual selfies :slight_smile: ‘’

then there is this:

talking about viewing yourself

and this:

on building vs combat.

i have covered quite a range of topic. so dont worry. take a look at these and you might find the answers you seek.