Should a large amount of play (thus ability to buy all death penalty reduction skills) take all the risk/tension/challenge away from activities like exploring and hunting?
If tool durability remains to be the thing affected by death, I would imagine that still be at least 5% with penalty reduction maxed out.
Iām fine with 0 reduction, itās already very costly 100 skill points to max out. Iād rather put it in combat skill tree and make it very expensive when you already have other skills unlocked. So if it costs like 200 skill points or more I donāt think weāll see much of those maxed out. And that way it would be harder for players to take advantage of that skill if they want to have other combat skills.
While I understand James is in favor of 0 reduction death penalty to encourage different play style and seeing a lot of people are liking it as well, I think we can have an implementation that would make both party happy and less exploitable.
The problem, as mentioned, is that it removes the ārisk/tension/challengeā and it is highly exploitable and too OP for some professions like hunter, miner and explorer. What Iām thinking is weāll have the same death reduction skill as we have now but for those mentioned professions, they should not be able to achieve 0 death reduction (Probably at max 5%). The only profession that I can think of that could achieve the 0 death reduction and not becoming too OP is builders. We could probably require the last tier of death reduction to have ā20 skills activated for builder treeā? Looks a little messy and random though
For hunters, explorers, and miners who wants to have 0 death reduction, I think you are missing a lot on the experience if you are not afraid of death. Iāve played a lot of games and I never would have thought that this cute little game could make me squeak hard whenever I have near death experiences on lava or creatures about to kill me.
The game is simply harder for some less able players. This skill allows players to opt into making the game less punishing for them. Likewise would be a zero fall damage skill.
Technically speaking this is actually pretty unfair - ideally the game would offer a true ālevel of difficultyā setting - so less able players could spend their skill points else where, instead of needing to spend them on this stealth non-explicit level of difficulty skill option.
I can understand that point of view, but its simply used by skilled players to become simply god-like in their exploring and fighting roles, as they can die as much as they feel or whenever it seems better choice than keep on trying to survive.
Unless death penalty goes beyond tool durability loss.
Imagine inability to leave sanctum for 5 minutes after death.
When building or mining it could feel a bit frustrating and delaying (especially when a player doesnāt have much time and wants to do as much as possible within a small time window). But then, wouldnāt it be great to make player have a break for a snack or tea (quite useful for those who got so addicted that they canāt stop for a few minutes on their own volition).
In case of fight/hunt it would be a very good way of making participants want to survive rather than give up when left on few hp. Also would make reviving skills potentially more useful.
Imagine that reviving skill now, with quite a lot players having full penalty reduction (or being close to it,so having minimal penalty), reviving would often be dismissed as an idea and simply replaced by dying and going through sanctum. On big hunts the high level players would rather do that, I imagine, than ask to be revived, especially when under attack of many mobs, when reviving means both the dead player and the reviving player taken out of the fight for a while (while dead player going back via sanctum means only 1 out of fight).
I agree with @Spoygg, I like the ability to reduce the death penalty to 0 and I think it is appropriate that it takes a good number of skill points to do this. If you want the added ārisk/tension/challengeā of dying then donāt take the skills. And even with these skills, dying is not āfreeā. You are still penalized in the reduction to health and that makes you more susceptible to mob attacks.
Even with the skills on my level 50 character, I still avoid dying. If I am mining, the chances are that I can end up someplace other than where I was, if I was in a small space. If I am hunting, it can put me back in a situation where the mobs are still around and I did loose health so I can be killed much easier.
well, when you get close to dying, getting killed is a better choice than trying to survive, cause you get back with more health - this is the kind of situation I refer to when saying that no death penalty creates a funny issue of dying as preferable choice
however the situation can be changed if death penalty takes other forms than just tool durability loss, making both death penalty reduction skill still viable and dying still a worse choice than fighting to survive
(see my previous post)
We will have to disagree on the need for any change to the death penalties. I did not buy Boundless as a combat oriented game. Sure there are survival aspects and death is the result of not surviving an encounter with a mob and most likely poison atmospheres and acid rain in the future. But the game is offering ways to mitigate the cost of death and I think that is appropriate. People talk about adding armor and other buffs. Does this not do the same thing? Change the mix so to avoid death and the penalties associated with death?
When polled, over 70% of the people said what was important to them in Boundless was Building and over 60% for Exploring. This does not indicate that the majority bought for combat or fighting, so why make the penalty for death too steep? I will acknowledge that a decent number of people (over 1/3) do want boss battles and a similar number mentioned hunting. I think the new creatures such as titans ant protectors will add challenges for those players. And I will state again, if you want the additional challenge then donāt take the skills. It is a choice individual players can make for themselves.
In my case, Iām not for excessive PvP either. When I say fighting, I mean group hunting and group encounters with strong creatures (up to the point of meeting Titans). Thatās where reviving comes in and thatās where (I think) penalty like being out of a battle for a few minutes would be better, as it would make people try to fight with skills rather than just rely on stats (high HP and fast regen plus no tool damage and possibility of being revived).
Itās not an easy task to make a game where one faces enough challenge and doesnāt get punished for dying too much.
Iām ok enough with current situation, but I can imagine different (possibly better) ways of balancing this.
I am not strongly against penalty reduction letting a player avoid tool damage totally, but Iād rather see some kind of death penalty that canāt be avoided no matter what skills you have or what level you get to.
Iām curious how this death penalty idea will change in future.
In general I love this game too much (itās simply too good), to be bothered whatever way it goes. I could live with any kind of proposition here. But I would like to see mechanics that keep this game challenging enough.
As sad as it sounds to me, I agree we need to make this wonderful game playable for all people. I just hope we get the right balance for this death penaltyā¦
Anyway, hereās a suggestion to somehow ābalanceā this skill
Change āDeath Penalty Reductionā progression to:
Level 1 - 0 Death Penalty to Tier 1 Planets
Level 2 - 0 Death Penalty to Tier 2 Planets
Level 3 - 0 Death Penalty to Tier 3 Planets
etc etc.
Top 1 or Top 2 Tier Planets should always have Death Penalty. (I hope these planets are the only one with Titans)
My point is, there is no merit in collecting trophies or titan rewards when other people, that are similar to invincible, are also able to obtain them. Now, they have plenty of planets to play on but there is still few hard planets that will challenge them. As much as I want all players to be able to play this game on equal grounds, we also need to reward players who are good in the game.
Now, the SP investment needed is indeed very high and I donāt have a plan on getting it (so far). What Iām worrying about is that it will somehow cheapens our experience in the game like during a mob hunt, there will just be those tanks that will just die on purpose and not even drink potions to be super efficient. The Hunter mob will just be a minor annoyance than just a real threat on caves.
I used to not really like the death penalty skill and never took it before and would always try my best to not die. I would do other things like maintain a close watch on my inventory and only carry a small specific amount of tools in case I died so I wouldnāt lose all my tools. Since I reached level 50 Iāve now invested max points into the reduction skill and it has changed the way I play the game now. It is very liberating to be able to run around and explore without the real fear of death. I still avoid dying as much as possible but if something goes wrong I donāt have to worry about my tools. If something does go wrong and I get close to death I still try my hardest to survive. Just because I have zero penalty doesnāt mean that I will just let myself die or kill myself. I still carry around healing brews even though I also have the health regen skill so I can heal myself back up. The devās have stated that they are working on a resurrection system along with the changes to death in release 182 that includes only having 25% health and reduced attributes make it so death is still not desirable. We also donāt know yet how this resurrection system will work and what that means to fighting against Titans and doing dungeons. Iām just guessing but I would think in order to resurrect another player you will have to be out of combat.
I like the ideas presented by Havok and Lawery about your vitality and HP increasing as your player levels and progresses.
I guess one of solutions would be to have ādeath penalty cancelationā zones. Iām thinking specifically on content that depends on you staying alive, like titans, dungeons, events etc. So, if player is getting into one of those where not having death penalty would actually be kinda exploit, he would know that it doesnāt work in that case. And while you do everything else you have your insurance
I have no understanding how people can call Death Reduction as an exploit or having the ability to be exploited. Death Reduction is a function of the game and a way the developers allow people to play. Please stop giving it terms that are not correct then.
I also have no understanding why people care if a player looks āgod likeā or have massive abilities. This is not a PVP game at this point and a player abilities has NO impact on you. Unless you are literally trying to defend the monsters and their ability to not be killed, then we really should stop talking about people having advanced and high level skills.
At this point that maybe PVP or other player issues arise - THEN we should be talking about possible god-like fucntions.
Iām not talking about how other players affect me.
Only how it makes the game a bit too easy for me and how I start feeling like immortal flying around and not being pushed to try harder to survive.
I am simply speaking from a point of view of a player looking for a game that is challenging enough.
That doesnāt mean itās not open to criticism and suggestion most of all, this game is still in EA. I understand that weāre coming from both end of the spectrum but both of us are the players that this game attracts and we just want to make amends to cater for both party.
Killing players is not the only reason to care for āgod likeā characters. On the contrary, the game offers more game mechanic that will be affected if there will be āgod likeā characters. For example:
Rarity of resources. With people being able to obtain them from hunting/mining more easily, it will not only lessen the satisfaction of getting one but also depreciates its market value. For hunters/miners without 0 death reduction, theyāll have a thought of āwhy would I risk going there when I can be more efficient on easier worldsā while people with 0 reduction just mine there to their heartās full content. This makes 0 death reduction a little ārequiredā if you want to compete for the best.
Titans can probably be soloable more easily.
The bragging rights alongside the trophies would not be as satisfactory as it would have been.
Why even invest on bombs, lance and other combat attributes such as defense and impact reduction when I could just invest on 0 death reduction and would probably have spare skill points and be more efficient in the game. Seems like the optimum build for hunters is Max Slingbow, Max Power, and 0 Death reduction and not encouraging some more creativity.
Revive skill you say? Whatās that for? Iām guessing most max level players will have 0 death reduction.
Now, I understand that it requires a lot of SP investment and makes it less desirable but the fact that it can be done makes a lot of difference.
If weāre still pushing for a total 0 durability loss on death, I would prefer if we have severe debuffs at respawn and can be cured instantly when drinking some decently priced type of potion. This way, you similarly lose coins like what durability loss does but might be more forgiving. OR some sort of cleansing fountain on a settlement with 10k prestige or above so people would visit towns more frequently. hehe just some fun thoughts.
It might lessen the satisfaction for you but probably not for me. I understand there needs to be balance and as many types of players as possible accommodated, but this is not how I get satisfaction from the game. As far as " why risk going". Is that not already part of the game? As a low level player, you are not going to be able to survive on the higher tier worlds and will suffer a fairly severe penalty if you die. As you progress and can acquire skills and higher level weapons, you can go and survive on the higher tier worlds. I would disagree that this makes the 0 durability loss required. A player could decide to spend the points on things like weapon skills and avoiding detection. My opinion is this is an option that a player can take or not depending on how the want to play the game. This allows for the game to accommodate various style of play without punishing one side or the other.
Since we have not seen them, I cannot say one way or the other, but all the developers have to do is allow the Titan to regain strength at a faster rate that any single weapon can inflict damage and suddenly it will require more than one player to kill a Titan. This is just my theory on how to handle it. I do think that it should require more than one player to take down a Titan. I believe this despite the face that I want to be able to play solo. The developers are encouraging cooperation and that is the game I bought so I need to understand there will be a few things I cannot do on my own.
I think this is obviously important to you and I would think other players. But it is not important to me and I would believe to other players. I am not sure how to make sure everyone is happy. Since Boundless does have multiple roles, I would think each role (builder, explorer, hunter) will derive satisfaction and bragging rights from different things. You might not care about your build, and I just want to stuff my build with as many interesting materials and items as possible (in a very tasteful way of course). If Boundless were just about fighting or building then I think this would be easier to resolve since anyone playing would have the similar goals. Since it is not, I think the developers have to be careful to make sure they do not create a situation where trying to create a satisfying experience for one role creates an unsatisfying experience for other roles.
Possibly because we might need these to have any chance against the titans. Since all the creatures are not around for us to play against as well as the weapons, we cannot say that they might not be necessary for the new creatures. Titans might be immune to sling bows or something. We will not know until they are released.
What if there was the gravestone system used in a common Minecraft mod, of which I canāt remember the nameā¦itās in SO MANY packs.
Except of course with the addition that other players canāt break it. Perhaps it would have a timer on it to prevent spam-trolling.