Et tu, Brute?

General
143

I just have 1 question; what would making the game P2W do? Literally nothing. Ok so you will get high end stuff quicker than other people, have better materials, better weapons at the start and that is it. You wont be able to solo a titan, you can’t buy creativity so you cant make pretty things, there is a max level of equipment so once every one else gets there you will be even. So what will it really do? Nothing. This isn’t battlefront where you end up with a insta kill weapon that wipes out a map by just shooting the floor and making you win. Or Rift where you can buy a class that is immortal unless you are fighting the same class. This would he like in Eve where sure you can spend thousands of dollars to get the best stuff. But if you have no idea what to do with it you just wasted thousands of dollars. Karko is just making a scene because he clearly just wants attention. This is like Y2K all over again, so much crying over something that might not even happen or even affect people in a significant way.

All this crying and moaning over something that really would have 0 impact on the game. Aside from you know, helping the devs make money so the game can keep running.

Sure some people are saying this could break the games economy. How? I have been playing for a long time and traveled around a lot. I have barely ever traded(or even been to other settlements), and the times I have wanted to I never find what I want. If anything the ability to buy resources could help stimulate the economy. Countries do it all the time when they print extra money, sure it causes inflation but it also helps regulate the economy. Not to mention there are 9 worlds right now, probably be bundles more when the game goes live. Game economy will likely be world dependent, not universal. Cause let’s be real, topaz should really not be worth the same in a world 1 jump away, than in a world 6 jumps away. That is bad business.

Micro-transactions would be great though. Say you need that 1 ruby to make a pickaxe. I would drop $5 for that.

Ps: wrote this on my phone, sorry for all the typos.

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144

The game already has a very real and very active economy. Many builds are restricted by what people can get their hands on. Allowing people to purchase things that are currently farmed will instantly change the perception of every fancy building from “wow: that’s awesome” to “look - another wallet warrior”.

Thus it matters significantly to anybody participating in the economy or trying to build something awesome.

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145

I disagree. How would you know it was a wallet warrior? Right now I have seen really awesome builds that were done by people using someone else’s resources. Where someone gets the resources to make something cool is irrelevant. You have no way of knowing where they got the resources.

Buying materials with money to make a huge build is impractical to begin with, but if someone wants to to do it that is fine. More resources for everyone else. What I will say should not be sold with real money is the ingame currency. That would actually break the economy, but not the sale of resources.

If someone buys the resources to build, that doesnt really affect anyone in any way. They just spent money instead of time to get the resources. If they buy to flood the market, that would affect the economy however it could stabilize itself.

146

So then why not just make all the resources infinite and free? Then it’s just about how well you can build.

Whilst you may not be involved in the economy or the MMORPG aspect of the game - many people are. I for one don’t even really build myself - I just focus on the resource gathering and trading. And if someone can just buy what they build I’d probably stop playing since I’d be better off in Boundless if I work extra hours than I’d be if I actually play the game.

In its current state the game supports multiple playstyles and creates interactions between them. Eliminating a crucial aspect of the game or supplanting it with an external source will definitely lead to a loss of players.

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147

I do interact with people, I dont use the economy mostly because I never find what I want and everyone sells in abundance what I have.

If you want to quit because people can buy resources, go ahead. Just assume that everyone will do that and you are wasting your time gathering and selling. Be just like karko.

Making resources purchasable with money doesnt eliminate any aspect of the game other than gathering. Which a lot of people dont even do, they just buy with ingame currency, or trade their building skills for resources. The beauty of this game is it actually can support resource sale with real money. It is just another playstyle to add.

Again if people want to leave because the OPTION to spend money to get resources is available, that is fine by me. Because it doesnt really affect the end result of the game in any way. It may affect what you think of people, but it doesnt really affect anything. It might affect the economy, but that is literally it. You and karko are crying over something that frankly is irrelevant.

148

I care about the game a great deal and have an incredible amount of respect for the developers - they’re doing a brilliant job. I already know that they won’t introduce a Pay 2 Win aspect into the game since that would utterly destroy its market. I do find it unfortunate that you can’t see that a Pay 2 Win aspect would estrange millions of potential players. Even more so that you find a crucial part of the game unnecessary.

This will be my last post on the topic. Lets agree to disagree.

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149

You are putting words in my mouth and totally not understanding anything I am saying.

So yes, let’s agree to disagree.

150

No one gets any right to define WHAT AND HOW something affects another. Just because you see it isn’t an issue does not mean others don’t.

The game is about whatever the game is about. If people are able to bring resources outside of the game into the game, then they are affecting it and technically breaking the game mechanic as it stands. If the developers decide to add a way that resources from outside the game are brought into the game, then they change the game mechanic and now the game is not being broken.

In the initial discussions of this game there were not conversations around P2W or outside money being brought into the game beyond being a “founder” or someone that helped initially in game development. So if the developers are changing that expectation with a new set of rules people have a right to not be happy.

This game has no real economy beyond a few people that sell stuff and many people that buy it. We have never had enough data or actual people to prove how things will play out if we keep it to “in game” only resources or if we allow ways for “outside of game” resources to be brought into it.

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151

Breaking the game and mechanics. What mechanic is being broke? I really want to hear this. The mechanic of purchasing a resource? Nope, that exists still and is completely unaffected. The mechanic of gathering the resource? Well given that there is no finite amount at which a resource can exist in a world, that isn’t broken. So what is broken? The person got a resource before you? That isn’t really breaking a mechanic, a lot of people have gathered resources other people dont have or can get. So what game mechanic is broken? What is affected, aside from your feelings?

And the whole premise of Karko crying is that he THINKS they are bringing in a P2W mechanic. So yeah there is a lot of P2W conversation going on.

This game is like a MOBA from a repsurce standpoint. Just because you have all the resources and you spent money on them doesnt mean you can use them, benefit from them, or make something good with them. I have hundreds of each gem, I cant craft anything with gems at the moment. Sure I chose that with my skills, but it doesnt change the fact I have it and cant use it.

The whole point is this game cant really be pay to win. There is no “win” mechanic. A lot of you are in the mindset that being able to buy resources with money will somehow lessen your work, or the specialness of it. Why? You are letting something really dumb make you feel bad about yourself.

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152

Not to anger or provoke anyone, this is a serious question - in my understanding all resources ARE infinite and free? that’s the point of the regen mechanic though isn’t it? As far as I understand, the value comes from the time required to obtain a specific amount of any particular resource and how many uses that resource has. In this regard, buying stuff would definitely take away the perceived value as you can instantly get x amount of whatever for cash. My money however is farmed in the real world grinding 9 to 24 hours a day and has a very tangible value to me. If I feel i can spare a day’s pay to buy a smart stack of (any item), then that instant item would carry a definite value in my head even though to people in-game it seems like it just appeared and i did nothing to get it.

I’m not voting for or against micro-transactions here, I’m just saying that nothing is truly “free” and there will always be someone who has “more” of anything valuable than others.

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153

THANK YOU. This is literally what I have been saying. Specially the last part. Allowing purchasing resources only really affects people’s personal feelings. It doesnt break any game mechanics or give anyone any actual advantage. It’s not like some games where the only way to get certain weapons or classes, or specs is money dependent. The end game is the same for everyone.

154

The game mechanic is simple as it stands - spend time to mine resources from a planet. If someone is doing anything beyond that like using money from the outside world to pay for resources then they are breaking the mechanic as it stands. End of story. So people have a right to be concerned because money from outside the game is different.

Stop the rude behavior. He is not crying. He is stating his opinion. If tears are coming down his face then fine you can define it as crying. You are acting more childish that he was in how he decided to present his concern with where he felt the game might be going.

You have no way of knowing who is dumb or not. This game does have a “win” mechanic based on how people perceive it versus how you do. Just because they don’t align with your views does not make them dumb or wrong. Please mature your views on how games work.

People feel that you spend time in the game to get resources and do things like sell items. That to them is a “win.” If someone doesn’t follow the same game process by using outside money then that is breaking the rules in their view and means it is “pay to win.” Another person might see that this game doesn’t have “win” scenario. Fine… but that doesn’t make EITHER OF THEM WRONG.

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156

Yes and you are taking their “in game time” and saying it means nothing with how you are stating. You are taking two different mechanics and trying to merge them. That does not work. How people play the “real world” game and how people play “this game” game are different. When you try to merge them then some people get concerned because they are based on two different value systems of time = x.

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157

I am not taking it personally. I am taking it as you are degrading everyone in your statements and pushing your view of reality and how this game should be and just beating people down instead of trying to understand their view point and bring constructive comments to the table.

So someone needed to tell you to chill.

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159

You are completely allowed to have your view and provide constructive argument on why you think the game is not pay to win. You do not need to do that via degrading people or completely ignoring the other person’s opinion.

If the game mixes outside money with in game stuff then some people will see it as pay 2 win based on their value system. If you don’t see it that way then that is fair and they have no reason to beat you up for seeing it in your way. But you need to respect other people’s views because they get something different out of this game than you do.

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160

IMO, having a microtransaction system is an exercise in a careful balance. I’m not initially against it, but it can easily get out of hand. Buying mats or a boost to gathering mats with real world money is a rather clear line for me - no way. Same with any purchased buffs(combat or otherwise), unique recipes (beyond cosmetic variations of ingame items), recipe discounts, or in game currency purchases. I would make exceptions for beacon time, crafting time, warp costs, maybe portal time, and maybe exp (so long as its not more than a 20% difference in growth). Having a cosmetic shop would be awesome, though. Many of my favorite games have gone with almost pure cosmetic shops and are still super fun games. Just… please please please don’t do lockboxes. Those things are awful, I can’t stand them. :frowning:
Basically, I’m all for cosmetic and minor quality of life purchases, but not anything that seriously affects the core economy and prestige system of the game, since that directly affects what I think of as the real end game - Merchant Supreme or Planetary Governor.

That said, if it gets out of hand, I hope that player created/run servers and planets will be able to have the shop disabled. That would take care of that for those who want to not deal with cash shop wackiness. :wink:

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161

there is a win aspect i fear that is being overlooked in this conversation that would completely unbalance the game and that is the fight for capital.
As it stands now owning capital on a world is nothing but a title. In the future however the capital will gain a percent of taxes and who knows what else.
I’m not saying that the game wouldn’t work if you could bulk buy for cash all the blocks to win capital but it sure would cheapen the exsperiance!
every world would evencualy be owned by (and I’m sorry in advance but I just love this term) a wallet warrior. In that respect an in game store selling prestigious blocks would certainly constitute a pay to win situation.
just my humble opinion though

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162

I was under the impression from the very beginning that the primary way this game will be funded was from new game copies purchased and rental worlds. Not cash shop BS.

The reason people are so opposed in general to cash shops where you can buy time saving related things in a game where you have to put your time and effort into getting where you want is because it levels the playing field in the most fairly possible way. The argument that life isn’t fair, doesn’t apply here.

I’ve been pretty vocal about not having enough motivation or time during most of my week to play this game. Doesn’t mean I would want to see a cash shop that let’s someone spend $1000 on building material blocks or crafting resources that basically lets them bypass gameplay experience elements.

If there’s an item you can spend $1.50 on that lets you gain experience faster, then what’s the real point of having leveling? Cause it’s a MMO? So what. There are plenty of MMOs that don’t have a level 1 to 50 style of leveling system and they’ve already become much more successful than this game. Leveling systems aren’t what make a MMO a MMO in the first place. This has been historically proven in the market place today within the game genre.

Adding in loot crates that give you a randomized chance of getting something you want is Archeage all over again with Thunderstruck trees and anyone who played that game understands the flood gate of people quitting cause it killed the economy and destroyed any sense of competition. Both are things XLGames and Trion got blamed for since they both were responsible for it happening. That new Starwars game with its loot crates for massive buffs to characters that had massive PR backlash on was another example. Not a MMO, but still a multiplayer game with competitive gameplay components.

Undervaluing the concerns of any sort of micro transaction system in a game is a huge negative. It’s promoting wallet wars between players, guilds, teams, etc. instead of promoting and rewarding the hard work of someone who invests their time into playing the game and enjoying a product as a consumer.

This is also something that has come up in the Crowfall game forums in the past too where players argue up and down about VIP with passive skill training. The micro transactions in a game need to match that game. The practice of stealing a cash shop model from another product is lazy, uncreative, and generally very bad practice.

Boundless is a game where you level up, craft finished items from base material items you’ve gathered up, build projects out of blocks, kill monsters, explore stuff, clear meteors, later on kill Titans in raid parties, and a whole bunch of other stuff I either can’t remember right now or hasn’t been revealed to be in the pipeline. Where in all of that does it make sense to undermine the gathering process of the loot acquisition and destruction game loop by allowing people to spend a portion of their year’s salary on stuff you can get in the game? Because it saves them time? It’s a bad argument.

If Boundless has a cash shop, it better be tailored specifically to it and not some rip off of multiple model sources from games that aren’t even remotely like it. An apple and orange might be both fruits, but both are extremely different pieces of food. Something to keep in mind.

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163

Goodness people, some discussion is fine of course, but can we at least wait until we get an official response which @james said was in the making, before going crazy with speculation :stuck_out_tongue:

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164

never bring on the dramatrain and hop on board :joy:

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