I am just saying I can see it being an issue with the current footfall rate per person at max prestige in a city.
I also wouldn’t make the claim that a mega shop causes less travel. There has to be some sort of public hard data for everyone to see. The perceptive from running one isn’t good enough IMO. If I am window shopping for Bark prices, I might visit 5 to 7 shops that I know sell it or explore around to find new ones that do. That’s still traveling and if I am doing that every 24 hours then that isn’t causing less footfall coin being generated.
Imagine thousands of people making 80 coin off their footfall like you can in Aquatopia per person every 24 hours. That’s just people passing through the area and not buying anything. So it isn’t a 1:10 ratio for that. I definitely know that cause I see the footfall coin adding up on my shop stand’s beacon and nobody bought anything. I also know that stuff people put in their shop stands at Aquatopia aren’t selling that quickly cause I see the same inventory amounts in each shop stand I check. So again, not 1:10.
It’s something that would need to be adjusted after release. It’s pointless to do it now. But different perceptive on that I suppose.
1:10 is the ratio of coin generated to trade generated. That is because the tax rate is 10% (with skills to improve, hand trade or low valued items to avoid and warps as the only other sink). This means that if you have 100 coin and you use it at a shop the owner gets 90 coin, that 90 coin becomes 81 when the shop owner buys stuff with it, which becomes 73 when the next person does, etc, etc until eventually the 100 coin is consumed after 1000 coin in total trades.
What this kind of hard-to-avoid tax does is that if we inject a trillion coin into the economy tomorrow it would all be gone in the time it takes to circulate 10 times. Consequently, any type of long-term inflation due to coin injection is quite impossible.
That does not mean that prices are stable: supply and demand still applies. As stated the main contributor there (currently) is hours played per day as it affects the resource generation to coin generation ratio. The same can be said for seasonal effects and patches.
You won’t visit 500 to 700 shops a day though. There’s a fixed (and low magnitude) point after which more planets do not affect footfall generation at all. The 12 planets we have right now are already above that magnitude as most probably won’t even visit all the relevant shops now. About the only long-term impact will be from high prestige settlements and that is capped at about 50% more than the current average - and human nature and statistics will prevent this from generating significantly more actual footfall per player than our current population does (as everyone does not build in large cities, people tend to frequent locations, shopping is habit, etc)
That’s the current mechanic yes, i think re-introducing the tax back into the economy (if wardens / capital owners or even all plot owners get some) could change this… perhaps only a fraction of tax will be returned, in which case this argument stands even at a longer ratio than 10:1
Ok, we’ll play it your way. When I read anything that you’ve posted here, what I read you saying is ‘I know better than all of you, and if you don’t see it my way, you just haven’t seen the light yet’, especially within the post to which I am replying.
While not wanting to diminish the length and quality of your post, I believe that any discourse between you and I on this subject is now concluded. It has become clear that we are both unable to come to the same conclusion based upon the available evidence. We both believe the other unable or merely unwilling to see our point of view, and no amount of discussion or questioning is going to change that. We’ve got to the point where we’re just finding new words to say the same things.
Still, it is entertaining that for all I disagree with many or your perspectives on this topic, your last paragraph does actually resonate with how I feel about the game’s broader current state. There is a lot more ‘work’ and a lot less ‘play’ here than when I first got involved.
I agree with Omni about mega shops taking footfall away from the city they are in.
I see this first hand in Sparta, and I am thinking of changing things…
I get shoppers via the portal to the shop and they shop and leave they never set foot in town.
I have mistakenly put the portals inside of the shop, no need to travel no tourism no footfall for anyone outside
When I go to therka market I got there for typically one reason, to hop into a specific portal often times Omni’s shop… I have never been outside of Omni’s shop I have no idea where it is other then I think its on Munteen lol… but for me the shop is in Therka and the door is the portal… So therka market get the footfall for my tip to Omni’s shop… where ever omni’s shop is located has never earned footfall from me as I have never gone outside to look at where its at…
This is what Omni means I am pretty sure… I am also pretty sure this is why he is building this town thing to split up his current shop into a bunch of little ones you have to walk too, to encourage footfall…
However while I think its a good idea on one hand I also think its a bad idea on the other…
I think Omni will lose alot of business from the less patient client who doesn’t have the time to walk from shop to shop… And they will find new one stop shops… Or old ones like G emporium…
But I understand his reason as I am thinking of doing something similar for similar reasons…
I didn’t want you to feel it was my way or the highway or that I know better. I do completely understand how the conversation would come across like that. I admit I didn’t take a lot of time to ensure my communication style didn’t send some of that message.
I really am at my heart someone that wants everyone on the same page and understanding the other persons view so we can solve the issue in the best possible way for everyone. Just at this point with this P2W issue I need space and a break because it felt way too uphill in getting the point across. It’s like all the nuances and discussions points muddied the water. A clean start would probably have better success.
Personally I think we probably were a lot closer to the same views but due to text and other things it didn’t look that way. I am happy, though, that you did get my overall jist of where I stand with the game. I still love the game but am worried about that work feel and stuff as it plays out across the iterations and especially new people. I guess we will just see what happens…
I didn’t feel like explaining because i didn’t want to get off topic but here is some background. yes I have a bonus that allows me to build more but that’s were your assumptions stop being correct. I didn’t get the bonus until recently, before I build my city in Vulpto I didn’t have plot bonuses. During Black Light I didn’t have plot bonuses I built with 1 character and I was not even level 50. I deleted that character and started new in Solum, I spent 100-150 plots during my time there while a whole city was built around me, at that point I grinded 2 more characters to build in other places, finally a friend convinced me to move completely so I tore all my plots and built a city in Vulpto with my 3 characters, at that point I upgraded 3 times just to build 1 city with 80% of my plots. I built huge cities not because I had a million plots but because the community help me a lot. If back then it seem I could built a lot is because I use my plots sparently, I did my best with my small amount of plots but I made sure every single one of them served a purpose.
This is basically what I said though? My personal goal is to create an active community, currency is important because you can pay for goods and services. Income, may be in your opinion the ultimate goal, my goal is cooperation and have an active town. This pay to win thing is very subjective to me. If you want a true economy i would suggest remove currency all together and let us built it. Let EACH town print their own currency backed by resources, but that my friend sounds a lot like work and i rather go back to ESO then play an economy sim.
I really don’t like speculating on things that are not even in game yet. Speculating in my opinion leads to bad feedback = removal or delay of a system, bring on the tax system so we can see it and then give our feedback, unless you know something I don’t about Boundless taxes?
I am sorry if I miss understood this response. It seems to me that you were making assumptions that I build with high prestige blocks. Also, you’re saying that I would beat you because I also have a lot more plots but I give you an example where I am building as proof that although I have 1000+ plots invested in my city I am still being beat by a 400 plot build.
You’re right I didn’t read your first comment, I only read what Luke said about messing with city ranking. Whatever feedback is being given here is being taken the wrong way that is causing them to make this change.
I was actually meant to send my original posts to Luke to express my opposition to their decision. I honestly want the game to move based on collective feedback not based on who suggested the loudest. I don’t know if people do not care about how cities are ranked or if it was simply missed in the storm of comments but I don’t want them to remove size of the build as a variable in city ranking system. Excuse me Luke if I miss understand your comment above this is how I read it.
Xaldafax if you need to clarify anything else with me simply PM me or we can discuss it on voice, I don’t like long replies dissecting every sentence.
I’m completely on board with that. It isn’t an easy discussion at all and the attempt I took to make it more objective was only successful in that some people got what I meant. All those bringing up other point, in most cases, make some sense and I just tried to redirect back to the more objective situation.
By the way, in regards to the plot bonus I wanted to make sure I didn’t send the wrong message to you in my posts. I don’t think you were doing anything wrong and fully supported your ability to build. I like what you did across the planets. I really wanted people to build…
Yeah I see how smaller builds can win the race but I think most of all I meant that if everything else was equal (work and time in game, etc) it was just having the purchase/bonus stuff makes it hard for those that don’t have that option to compete in certain areas and they might feel it was unfair or leave the game because of that. Something I’d hate to see.
As much as I want to agree with you, I have to doubt that this is caused by this announcement.
But it’s rather that the API they use seems to have some troubles lately, hence the absolute drop to zero. This naturally distorts the average of the player numbers and can be observed in many games:
Don’t get me wrong though, knowing the steam community, I also absolutely expect a backlash to happen, just at a later time when the store is actually visible ingame or a steam announcement is made. (There are just way too few people reading this forum)
during this month and the next 2 (may, june and july) there will be a lot of people completely taken by university&school tests, also work’s volume generally increases before the summer stop (many suppliers closes in august so everything must be purchased/ordered before)… this is a stressing period of the year from many point of view.
Serious case of ‘glass half empty’ syndrome.
So for months there’s been a steady increase and then one month it drops, no doubt for many various reasons:
Hot weather in UK
Holidays in UK
It might be worth checking this when the exchange is actually available and not before because that will give a better representation of what people think of the feature. Remember the forums are typically used by the dedicated players, so the majority of players have not seen or know about the exchange yet.
The current trend is most likely down to the many factors others have mentioned:
University and school exams
Weather (it’s nice outside and lighter in the evenings)
New features in testing for people to try
And more importantly we haven’t added new content to the game since March. We’ve been improving the game and making quality of life changes which is great for the long term satisfaction, but we all know new content is what brings people back. That’s why it will be interesting to check this when all the new content on testing is moved over to live and everyone is playing on the same server again.
personally i LOVE the exchange (get rewarded in-game doing in-game things… for free)
As for Item shops and etc? or even having to BUY Cubits? NO NO NO NO ANNNND NOOOOOOO!!!
(unless it was buying decorations only or cosmetics… or things WHICH WILL NOT give anyone an advantage or a step up from people who CANT afford to micro-trans!!!