Oh I wasn’t trying to say grind is inherently a bad thing. Just stating the fact. I’d say the majority of us still playing for this long, and still around, enjoy a grind to some extent. Those that get the game thinking it’s going to be a fun builder and then hit the grind wall instead of the creative expanse though are going to see things far differently than you and I.(i played vanilla wow from release, once was enough for me 
. good ride, leave those fun memories where they ended.)
1 Like
That is fair, I assume with the tag MMO in the description that it comes with a grind. But I’ve played a few dozen mmos in my lifetime so I know to expect such things I guess lol.
1 Like
@Fiffer13
The mmos I know of all offer something unique or in case of endgame, endgame valued stuff for extended grinds, like cosmetics, mounts, super equipment.
I did play a fair share of mmos, even free-to-play ones and the Boundless balance is not good set up.
Yes you will always have the one or two odd player that enjoys the work more than the reward (Levels all chara classe although it makes no sense and gives nothing to the player, just because they can) but you will never attract a decent following if the feeling of reward is not there.
If they release T8 worlds with the current lucent tools and following their balancing so far, every monster will one shot you. Your lucent bow will break from over use after half a titan fight and you will get a bit more xp and a bit more loot from the fight. And a special stone that you will need to craft with oort to get a half decent new rock skin. ;3
But seriously, I do get what you mean but compare it to the grind of WoW or FF xiv for example. We got really cool rewards for our time. And I do not remember a piece of gear in FF xiv that was worse than the tier before it or had any restrictions.
Indulge me with your view on this comparison, if you like, im curious :3
1 Like
I think a lot of what we have in Boundless right now is like a framework…and intentionally so. There are a ton of things to do, gather, and craft, but there’s a lot of potential for these systems to be fleshed out into who knows what. The core of Boundless since I joined has seemed to be that you probably won’t be able to do everything all the time. This does create some personal scarcity, but is also supposed to reward you for the time you put in doing stuff. I’m not saying balance is perfect or that things are broken beyond improvement. I feel like a lot of people want more instant gratification than Boundless gives you. I love this game because it makes you work for what you have, and it’s mostly fun getting there. Everything is a journey in this game, and you make it what you will. We have barely seen the start over the past year, and I expect tons of changes and improvements in the future
Edit: spelling
2 Likes
Ok, lets take a few and compaire
First the easy part, what is “traditional” end game boundless. Currently this is Level 7 exo planets, survival on them, loot from them. With that loot we can make the highest raw powered tools (umbris especially), exclusive animated blocks (each lucent type), high efficiency fuels (granted this is from more than just level 7 exo), and meteor ichor for the most potent per unit portal fuel.
We do lack anything that calls for the higher powered umbris tools/weapons, it is a god stick without a god to smack with it. But I digress.
In comparison of classic wow (better comparison since it is more like the first year of a new mmo). You achieved weapons and armor, and skills (with levels) in order to engage in either rated PvP or Raiding. since boundless does not have pvp lets just focus on raiding. Raiding in classic (and really retail as well) is a weird one. You can beat the first raid with a combination of quest rewards, rare loot, and dungeon loot. That gear dosen’t really help you beat the raid better at first either, rather only coordination improvement gets better results faster. so really that loot is only prestigious and even then only until the next raid comes out. Oh, it will help in the next raid, but you’ll probably use a couple new dungeon items to help as well since something pre raid 2 will be bis from a dungeon… This is a known loop of this mmo, the end game gear is more cosmetic than necessary to achieve anything.
Lets jump over to Runescape. In Runescape every skill is a grind (repetitive task to achieve xp), then once you have cleared all the levels in which there are perks for obtaining there are cosmetic capes to work towards for grinding past 99 in each skill. Most of these skills don’t give you anything of benefit past level 90, even then its objective if you need them since the convenience it offers you is likely only to be a 2-5% increase in efficiency. And that’s the game really. Boss battles are extra, not needed for anything but loot to fight bigger bosses, PvP is basically only in one region and has little to add except making leveling some skills more a risk/reward equation.
To me boundless is quite similar to both these games, end game is kind of up to interpretation, and really just achieving the ability to do the hardest content (regardless of gear) is the satisfaction loop in the traditional sense. If you played well enough, you could kill all the hardest creatures with a totem… it would take forever and you would have to dodge so many attacks, but it could possibly be done. Just like you can level and raid in gray items in wow classic, you shouldn’t but you can.
One thing that most mmos have that boundless currently lacks any form of is story. We are left to wonder, speculate, and make our own stories. Which is a game by itself to some, and to others completely ignored. So their end game could be very different to the “traditional” end game, but no less endgame to them.
In balance the scales will never be even. But to say the scale is broken is not something I can agree with in regards to current boundless.
2 Likes
There is one thing that you’re missing from your analogy though. Boundless has a much bigger ‘grind’ to just maintain the status-quo, whereas in both WoW and Runescape, you’re grind to get somewhere.
In WoW, you’re equipment gets damaged over time (and is never truly destroyed), but then you can repair it with a currency that very free-flowing. Once you’ve got it, you’ve got it.
Likewise in Runescape, last time I played (which was admittedly years ago, so things may be different) only the top tiers of gear degrade with use, and they are also rechargeable, albeit requiring more effort.
With Boundless, it is a constant cycle of either doing nothing, or spending at least a portion of your time grinding to stay exactly where you already are. For me, that’s an important distinction, and I believe a contributing factor as to why it isn’t growing at any great rate.
2 Likes
I believe the tipie top runescape gear has a limitation on how much it can be recharged as well. I’m not nitpicking, or arguing even below. Just expanding on your points, and making a counter point.
WoW has repair costs, but you also spend coin for your skills, for the ability to use weapons, to use the quick travel (like getting charged coins for portals as well as warping), and also to be able to craft things… so coin needs to be more free flowing in that environment since literately everything costs coin.
Something boundless has that those games do not is plots. You can continue to level your character (which happens once or twice a week for me with just what I do to maintain my store) in order to get more cubits. More cubits means more plots, and more plots means bigger castle. Wow doesn’t have player housing, and runescape’s is instanced so not easy for people to visit.
So that is something the grind in boundless rewards that neither of the grinds in those do, and it is a loop that doesn’t end either.
Yeah, RS may well have changed since I last played… it has been years. That being said, I’m not sure that it’s really helpful to compare what the games don’t have in common. If we do, Boundless will not come out well in comparisons with either WoW OR Runescape. They’re too well established. I’m sure I don’t need to list all the things that either game offers to make that point.
A better thing to do is look as how successful games that are well established have changed over the years. A lot of then have moved away from grind just to maintain what you have. First that springs to mind for me is Diablo 3. They had durability that you could repair, but also ‘max durability’ that could decrease over time, essentially making items wear out and become useless. That feature was removed entirely.
I don’t know how that even could translate into Boundless. Maybe only Forged tool need to break, giving you a choice between the OP-ness of forged tools and the steady & reliable unforged? I certainly don’t think machine repair brings anything to the game except for needless busywork. What purpose does it actually serve?
TLDR; I believe Boundless would be better if most, if not all, playtime could revolve around working towards something new instead of devoting a chunk of your play time to maintaining what you’ve got.
2 Likes
The balance is not broken, but it could be improved. I made this thread to gather ideas, give feedback and to reflect what the average Boundless player wants out of the experience.
One may say, its fine nothing wrong, the other may say its broken.
Balancing an mmo is one of the hardest feats to accomplish when compared to standalone games.
We should compare to the next best thing which is MC with mods and then ask the question what does Boundless have that MC with mods has not?
This comparison looks far different than the comparison to old days WoW or Runescape.
I would not even recommend comparing to those since the old days audience was very different than todays audience.
Better graphics? Chisels?
Is that enough to attract an audience, is this the audience we (as community) or they (as development team) should pursue in terms of growth.
I complain that I have a hard time accessing new content (t7 hunts) and do not get excitment out of it when I look at the balancing of lucent weapons and the reward that awaits me for doing so.
Also any ideas brought to the table to make the experience more exciting and engaging is what I am looking for. This will help the game more than arguing its too hard, too easy or a framework so lets just wait indefinetly. There is a lot of values that can be tweaked and provide growth now instead of tomorrow.
As a fun self experiment, I will experimentally forge 3 umbris slingbows to the highest value I can achieve on the current system and log the time it takes. Gathering the mats, forging and testing the weapons. Then ask the question is it worth the “adventure” of grinding mats for a long time ^^
1 Like
Would be cool to stack multiple food/brew buffs… stack 2 brew buffs and get tipsy, and get progressively more drunk with each stack.
Stack 2 food buffs and become lethargic. Stack too many and you approach a food coma.
1 Like
I feel like we need a separate post to discuss now the buffs thing, we may get to a real proposition for devs instead of just daydreaming.
1 Like
I don’t think they’ll consider it though… still worth a try.
I am taking a short break from Boundless atm, playing other online games. What really came to mind the last few days is how engaging some of the game loops are, which could be interesting for Boundless too.
The game loop I am currently enjoying a lot is one that allows me to grind new clothes, cosmetics and customizable gear.
The grind your clothes loop could be very interesting for Boundless in the long run. Every player wants to have a custom made avatar.
Also might be interesting to get in a second currency besides cubits that is harder to grind and buyable in the cash shop (only for cosmetics, do not do a Fallout 76 on this one please lol), seems many games make a lot of revenue through those and it’s extremly engaging.
3 Likes
Now you’re making me curious! Which game is it?
1 Like
Sorry for the late anwser I am totally sucked in. It’s Red Dead Redemption 2 online. They had a major content update two weeks ago and its a ton of fun in the wild west lol. They have PANTS!!
But no worries I always return to my fav Block Building game (Boundless atm) at some point, trying not to be absent for too long : )
2 Likes
Just bought RDR2 last night. Should I play the story first or just jump right into the online fun?
Pants don’t exist, they’re just a myth made up by the government to make us submissive!
All we have is short-shorts.
We like short-shorts.
All jokes aside though, I do like being able to project myself to the public in a way i can feel proud of.
My current paint and mask will do. for now 
1 Like
Story for a bit first to get the mood I recommend. Once I started online I didnt get back to story lol.
Endgame online is a bit meh though, not very much to do besides repeating stuff (its ok, but not for a long term imo).
Im semi back to BL already, the building continues o_o
2 Likes
bit of a late reply but honestly i want that system back sure it was a pain cuz you had to plan your tool tier for the mat you where farming but at the same time the trade off was no block armor and that’s what i think made the grind skyrocket has soon has the game went “live” i personally felt the huge grind up right at level 5 also the fact that once you hit late game forged tools and brews become a requirement
1 Like