Getting players into the economy

General
81

I like these ideas but I would propose the following instead:

  1. Introduce a universe-wide auction house that, instead of selling items directly, simply tracks all the available shop stands in the game and gives you an item (or perhaps just a location totem) that opens a portal directly to that shop stand.

This solves everything:

  1. The shop owner gets footfall.
  2. The economy becomes something more “engaging” and “usable”
  3. The shopping experience is significantly easier

Downside of this would be, in my mind:

  1. This doesn’t allow a good way to “advertise” shops. For example, I know I don’t always shop where the price is the absolute cheapest but rather at shops I know and trust and that have good stock with reasonable prices. This method would certainly cause a price war where the cheapest price would almost always win unless we implemented something that combats this.

You could potentially address the above buy including advertising space in the AH interface for the shops to which the shop stand belongs. This could give the shop stand owner an opportunity to talk about their shop and what separates the from others.

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82

And this hurts you how, exactly? I purposefully zig zag if it means I can spread some FF to someone.

This argument with FF is really getting old.

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83

The other downside to this is warp distance… you can’t instantly warp to a planet that is beyond your reach. You’d still need to get within warp distance first. That will only become worse when more planets are added.

You’d also then need to pay for the warp costs too.

84

If the system is tapped from a mesh that can poop out location tokens, then it might be easy enough to run through a network to the planet and warp from there for 100c. For the way I shop, it would be worth it for me

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85

Footfall was specifically designed to reward dedicated builders.

Not people who go around slamming down beacons everywhere people walk to get free income.

It’s a good argument against it.

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86

The best fix I’ve seen proposed to this is giving a portion to the builder and a portion to the explorer… reward building and exploring. However this would likely need tweaking because of things we have built to take advantage of its current implementation.

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87

You are not being rude but coming out of a portal there is not always a way to avoid other players plots. Can’t always grapple.

88

I disagree but you are as entitled to your opinion as I am. So for the record players that create footfall traps hurt the ones who don’t by artificially increasing coin in game which can inflate prices everyone pays.

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89

Why are we still arguing about footfall? How in the world does footfall hurt anyone? Footfall does not cause prices to inflate, and there is no penalty from it.

If anything we need a new way to gain coin, such as enemies dropping a small amount of coin (first thing that comes to mind). No this won’t kill the market. The chrysominter didn’t kill the market, so why should mob drops?

We don’t need to take away from the game anymore. We can for sure add stuff that is better/improved. We don’t need more coin sinks.

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90

This is pretty much the reason I lean more toward planet-based search rather than galaxy-wide.

As a general question: While portal hubs have taken over as the de facto way to travel and DO make interplanetary travel trivially easy, should they really be taken for granted when considering the design of other game systems? maybe? Or no? Without portal hubs, traveling to another planet is- by design- quite the journey. Not to mention atmospheric protection gating.

But same-planet travel is only 100c so that’s not an unreasonable “instant pickup fee”, imo. And walking as the alternative would actually feel attractive with the footfall for both builder and traveler thing.

That said, I also don’t see it as being a prohibitively impossible problem. I wouldn’t object to having the (default-off) option to show galaxy-wide results, but only spitting out location tokens for the same planet.

… … …I suddenly thought that coils would upgrade blinksec search distance and then gave myself a mental slap. :clown_face: boy i can’t wait to repair a search machine :clown_face: lmao

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91

That’s exactly the point. There’s a ton better ideas for the health of the game than footfall. People only cling to it because they currently benefit from it and dont wait an easy passive source of income to disappear.

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92

Footfall doesn’t give much in the first place, but it’s great to have if there are days when you sell nothing, or if you find empty request baskets. I don’t see the harm in footfall, especially if someone has a shop, a hub, a build they are proud of, etc.

(Nothing wrong with a few extra coin)

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93

A few points that seem to keep getting discussed.

  1. Fundamentally, we should agree the game should move forward. This means that reducing, removing or eliminating functionality should not be the primary goal of this conversation; otherwise the point is moot.

  2. What should also be agreed is things must change. Stagnation is the same as regression.

That being said, there are several core issues that effect the economy. This is long, if you don’t want to read it, i guess skip to the bottom?

I) Markets are broken. There isn’t a way to connect buyers with sellers.
II) The economy has very low entrepreneurship. It appears, based on data available, that few players setup request baskets themselves but many players utilize other peoples’ shop stands and sell to request baskets.
III) The economy has low velocity. Players don’t move large volumes of currency between each other. Hoarding is occurring which is extremely unhealthy for any economy.
IV) There is no real estate market. Land has value, but no way to transfer that value.
V) There is no capital goods or investment market. Players cannot invest large sums of coin in themselves or others for any return.
VI) There is no inflation. Costs are remaining stagnant or even dropping with the introduction of the coin machine because supply continues to outpace demand.

Each of these are significant issues by themselves. Combined it is a nightmare scenario for a fledgling economy. You can check my post history. I have said, for several months, that significant dev involvement will be necessary to stabilize the economy. Below is the synopsis of what will need to be done ultimately.

A) An auction house needs to be added. - There is no scalability in the current system. Adding more players does not solve the lack of connection of players to market. There absolutely must be a way to have a galactic search engine that puts you where you need to be or to buy something from the pedestal. Anything less won’t scale.
B) We need the ability to speculate, sell and transfer beacons and their associated land. - Real Estate is the most valuable commodity in this game. This allows capital investment in a property.
C) Footfall needs to be increased, and have the ability to pay “dividends” to “shareholders”. - This allows groups of individuals who have the appropriate permissions to get a cut of the beacons earnings. Now using and moving coin around has a purpose.
D) Quests need to be added that consume crafted and intermediate goods. - They can reward experience, unique forge materials and other items. This will consume resources right out of the market.

Those 4 items solve the top 6. It allows a person to have a shop anywhere, rewards builders, crafters, hunters, gatherers and explorers alike and most importantly: no one is hurt. It doesn’t include a single nerf.

tldr; A rising tide lifts all boats.

94

Everything is a FF trap… PS hubs, Ultima Hubs, malls, and co-ops. It’s funny you say prices have come up, because I think they’ve come down or stayed relatively level since I built the first co-op.

Ironically the only non traps are the co-ops because no one forces anyone to visit them, and they are clearly marked for what they are. Oh, and no ones getting rich from FF Co-ops.:wink:

And while you and I are both entitled to our opinions… so are the newer players who don’t have millions of coin… the same players who need footfall.

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95

I have a build I am proud of, that does not automatically mean it generates footfall. Location generates footfall. Being adjacent to something other players value like a portal is optimal. Put up a beacon around a well used portal hub is a great way to earn footfall with no effort after the initial build other than fueling the beacon.

96

This will never happen with 200 players, regardless of what the devs do. Each player holds too much of a % of the non-existing “economy” right now. With more things to do, more ways to do it, more ways to make money, more players…things will grow and stabilize. Right now, everytime someone sneezes, they cause ripples in the market.

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97

A portal hub at least offers a service that players may not be able to do themselves due to skill limitations. It also requires active participation in keeping it fueled. Very different from fueling a beacon for 12 weeks at a time or just buying gleam club which the only requirement for footfall once you complete a build.

Newer players need a way to make coin, but why does that have to be footfall or why not split the footfall with the player that is actually generating it for you then. Sure why not if you want people to travel through cities and explore then incent them to do it. If you want to increase players through builds then give them 50% of the footfall generated.

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98

I put together a list of problems and 4 solutions to those problems. Don’t say why it cannot be done. Say why it can and should.

Its beyond time we stop accepting the broken system for being broken.

99

As a former shop owner who received footfall, I think it should go both ways, and I know others won’t like it, but I think it should be 70 to player and 30 to shop owners or 60/40.

Reason? I did spend the time building my shop, putting up stands, and I did spend time gathering the mats and making them into items to sell. But, I got my profit from selling, not from footfall.

Footfall is the bonus I got for players coming to my shop and when a player has a footfall trap, and there are plenty of them, the player loses out and the shop owner wins. If I am going to go and run around several malls, jump through portals to go to malls, run through a town to get to a shop that might state here on the forum I sell this and this, come and buy it, but get there and they have either sold out and I am out of luck, given them and other coins in footfall and WASTED my time that I have limited amount of. Well, I am ticked off, plain and simple.

Not everyone can have six or more hours a day to play; families, jobs, other commitments can give them just a few hours on the weekend or a hour or so a day. They Do Not have four hours to run from planet to planet to find the item they desperately need and the shops, malls, places they have run through to get there have gained and they have lost.
Players Need to be rewarded for hunting for the time they have spent hunting for the items they need, plain and simple. And shop owners need to realize they will gain from this. The player now has more coins to spend so will buy more, will be more willing to go to the shops in the hopes of finding what they need and at least feel they gain from it.

Before I had opened my shop I had traded for what I need, as I was durned if I was going to run all over trying to find what I needed and give coins to those who have shops but Do Not Restock them, and many shop owners do not, they are footfall traps. Not all, but many are.

Many markets, shops have request baskets and to me that is giving back, they get the footfall, but those who sell their mats get something for it. Sussie Q who has a shop at a mall and is asking 2k for a hopper core is ripping players off at her high price and also getting footfall, money she Does Not Deserve because to me her shop is a footfall trap.

Majority of footfall needs to go to shoppers, as they are doing the work to get to a shop and giving footfall to those they pass through. Footfall needs to go to the portal owners as they have to pay to keep the portal open for me to use.

Auction Houses, a building that list what shops are selling what and at what price are a great idea. I think one for each planet is another great idea, that will let me look and see what shops are selling and the price on my home planet, that I want to support. If we can see the Auction House on each planet then if we can’t get it on our home planet we can go to another planet and look there.

I truly feel that I deserve to receive compensation for going to different planets, running around markets, especially open ones that are huge and smashed together to look for what I need, I gave them footfall, I deserve something for wasting my time and most of the time, it is a waste, I lost time I could have spend gathering that I had hoped to avoid but now Still have to do.

Mall owners who have their alts place beacons down under the floors get a lot of footfall from players running around, they are not hurting in coins. I do lose out because I got Jack Dodo from running all over your mall to find out no one is selling what I need or is asking too high a price. That is not the fault of the mall owners, I am not blaming them. I do feel they shouldn’t be stingy and not want me to get something for visiting their mall, that just gives me more coins to maybe spend at your mall when I do need something that I see a shop is selling.

I’m not against malls, I’m not against mall owners, I’m not against shop owners or even against them getting footfall, – but I am Against the footfall traps that some Shop owners set up in a mall and them getting footfall and I get nothing.

Malls and shop owners are already losing out because I won’t be shopping at their shops because I am sick and tired of the high prices, the footfall traps of some shops, of running around in the little time I now have to play. I will either be gathering or back to trading for what I need.

Give me footfall for visiting and I will come back to see if I can find a good deal. A win-win situation.

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100

That’s how I see it as well Janna. Very nice post. Thank you for taking the time to jot it down. This is a good example of a footfall tweak instead of outright removal which we know will not happen.