No suggestion ever is… at least not straight away
Can you two stop petty fighting? its really filling up the thread with off topic posts and makes it hard to follow the actual discussion. PM each other if you want to have a personal convo.
Back on track… i said this before, but i cant find it now (thanks guys!)… i think this needs to be looked at as selling “property”, not land. The value for the seller should be something they have put time and effort into building up, not just slapping down free plots.
Vote 1 ability to sell property once it reaches a certain prestige!
So what your saying is, that you are encouraging someone to make a nice looking house, set up a shop for the token, charge a lot of money for it, and the person that bought the token now owns a 1 plot size hole on another planet, and the owner is that much richer.
And if somehow you get around that scamming bit, you’re also encouraging for the makers of towns which already own hundreds of plots making up the town, to instead of giving up land for free to new people that want to join, to instead sell those plots for high price that new players and poor players can’t afford.
^ This can already be done, just takes an extra 30 seconds and some trust. The problem is that it’s not encouraged. It’s more encouraged to be nicer, to give up land freely, to HELP people.
But this new system you guys want to add in, will make towns greedy, people aren’t going to give up land for free anymore, when they can just set it up to sell for a high price and forget about it.
Especially since like Making tools there is no set economy. Plots could cost 100c each, they would cost 50,000c each, or even 150,000c PER plot, just to live in/near a town, and doesn’t include a spot in the market to set up shop too.
And you, the Devs, are encouraging players, at that point, to go out and plot every single land they can, even if they don’t use it, because they can sell it to someone else later on. Especially guilds, made up of many groups of people, who can each chip in a lot of IRL money to buy plots to put down and make people pay for to own or remove.
I honestly can not see a single situation that is NOT griefing, scamming, or exploiting people. There would be no friendly communities, or greedy guilds and communities. We already have enough of those with just the bigger shops. Don’t encourage them to get greedy and overpriced with land ownership too!
So you are going to basically give tools to speculators and extortioners. Nice.
They haven’t even started development on this, they were jus’ askin’s us what we thought.
I’m obviously too nice of a guy. The potential abuse didn’t even occur to me until I read this thread.
How about people just stop being jerks and trying to game the system, lol.
Did they really need to ask? It doesn’t take a genius to notice how very exploitive, competitive, and HIGHLY ABUSABLE it is.
It’s already occurring, that’s the thing. All this would do is remove the ability for users to scam others, but people selling land is happenin’ already.
I’m pretty sure that part of the point of this thread is to see if we have any ideas that might help combat those issues.
(I’ve picked the following quotes, but could have selected probably 50 others.)
I think I was pretty clear.
So we’re exploring transferring ownership of beacons (not plots) between players because we expect that players will want to transfer beacon ownership into guild ownership in the future.
We then realised that - even if we officially enabled it or not - that players could use this to sell a beacon. They could trade coin and transfer ownership. But there would be a risk of abuse.
Hmmm, maybe we should simply allow selling beacons. This would be safer and cleaner. Maybe it’s fun. Maybe it creates something interesting.
Oh but wait - LOTS of possible problems start appearing. Might it be abused? Might it be pay2win? (Shock, developers doesn’t wait to accidentally introduce pay2win into a game we care deeply about.)
Hmmm, what can we do about these problems? Can we find a solution? Maybe something to do with prestige? Is the CoC enough to stop abuse? Can we put a “REPORT” button on the selling action? Hmmm. Issues!!
Wait a minute, maybe players don’t even want this.
Let’s ask them.
If we can’t ask questions and get info in good faith - but instead are exposed to bad faith interpretations then we can’t get input from the community.
Even asking something like this is offensive to whoever is trying to be nice around here. If there is money in the middle, being nice is not a thing.
This leads people to worry about being victim of extortion and the fear leads to the cubits plot shop.
No, I’m not going to answer nicely.
Welcome to life. I sense an aspect of realism there.
I’ve been pretty clear too above.
People can’t be nice and run a business at the same time?
The developers here, despite some mistakes with the patch notes for bomb mining, and disagreements about bricks, have been extremely vocal here on the forums, and on discord, far better than many other games I’ve played.
They absolutely care, and you’re choosin’ to interpret a simple question negatively.
People ALREADY sell plots for coins, it’s happenin’ in game right now, if the developers did what they proposed here, it wouldn’t change anythin’, because it’s already, happenin’, in, the, game, right, now.
If anythin’ they’d remove the possibility for people to scam.
If this is going to happen, the only way I see it working is tying it to prestige.
At least 1,000p to transfer, 10,000p to sell.
No prestige needed if transferring to an adjacent beacon or between alts, unless you are selling it, then the prestige limit applies.
I like your idea, and agree it would give builders more financial potential, something they greatly need. I’m not a good builder (look at till xroads - or actually don’t comment). I would definitely buy a nicely designed build. A property tax isn’t a bad idea either. It would force players to utilize, or rent out the land they have to cover the cost.
On the topic of property tax. This could be either directly taken from footfall, or allow players to add money into the beacon. One benefit of the capital city, is it gets all or a portion of the tax revenue.
@james I hope you realize, there is a ton of people supporting the idea of making the game more convenient that may not have a voice here or are involved on the forums. Please don’t listen to a few negative nancy forum lurkers’ worst case scenario instances. The devs have always been there to moderate and handle trolling issues how would this be any different? Abuse = Ban
The developers have already introduced paying for plots, so you can call it P2W with or without this added feature. People are going to do what is in question regardless of if there is a function for it. Also any SUCCESSFUL city builder, warden or viceroy understands the importance of people in their cities. Charging an arm and a leg is bad for business. Bad for business = low footfall which makes it harder to maintain portals and whatnot. Just think of it as a portal, ULTIMA for example practically gives away their portal space to anyone who wants a spot and who is willing to maintain the portal. This is no different really, it benefits both parties. Trolls will be trolls and personally its easier to troll with the other method and trolls are less likely to pay to troll someone. I think this is good for the community.
This is SOLID PROOF that the developers want what is best for the game (which directly means what is best for the players (us)) And I appreciate that
People shouldn’t be annoyed that they have had this thought, people should be thankful that they had this thought and told us about it so they can decided whether or not it would be best for the community.
Also if someone if a thread is too ‘negative’ the chances are the people who actually have constructive critisism don’t want to read through all the negativity and then in turn might not contribute to the discussion, so lets keep it chill and constructive?
That’s true, and is exactly what I point out. The difference is that it’s a rare thing right now, and not something encouraged or thought about.
But if it’s a feature, it becomes the standard.
Picture right now. Are you part of a town? Have you ever tried joining? Have you seen someone else join?
The community I’m part of, I asked one of the people high up in the chain and they let me own some plots on the road to the outter edge as everything inside was already built and claimed. And when they made the Market, they willingly gave up spots for anyone that asked.
But with this system, that isn’t going to be the norm. They are going to be owning all the land nearby, even if now used, and instead selling bits of plot to people instead of being friendly and giving away the land to build up the community. It becomes a buisness, and not a friendly community. Especially in the much, Much bigger towns, like Ultra HQ where the town is so big, and the community is so big, they will probably just own all the plots, and set them all to sell, then forget and ignore them.
There isn’t any, because you can’t design a system on a case by case issue. The problem is that in some situations is a good idea to want, but in most other situations it’s a very abusable system. It not something you can just ‘Turn On’ for very specific situations, when the two differences look the exact same mechanically and the only difference is intent.
I can honestly say, it would be very pay to win, if you can just put down a beacon for 1 plot, then sell it. Cause while plots can already be heavily abused, especially by those that buy more of them, it isn’t encourged or a big thing.
But adding in a system to encourge people to buy and sell land, and people can get more land by paying IRL money, that becomes pay to win as people will be able to buy much more land, much more early and more often than those playing normally, and just grinding levels just to get cubits for land specifically.
Especially if it’s in a guild system too, where you can gift plots/lands to the guild. Can then instead of 1 guy having to pay say $1000 for 1000 plots, you can get 10 people to pay $100 each for 1000 plots for the guild to use and abuse the system.
You’ve got to take the good and bad. Some people, like me, are naturally jerkish. But you can’t deny we bring up a point. Take @Biv for example.
If you just get the nice and friendly people, you will only see the helpful side, not the negative. Sometimes you need the ‘Bad Faith’ to see the flaws and abuse your system can have.
Cause I can tell you, straight up. If you add in a system to sell land, I will happily abuse the heck out of it, and spend irl money for cubits to buy more land to plot everything near the town I am in, to force people to buy the plots to expand near my home.
If people sell stolen cars you don’t make services to sell those stolen cars. If someone want to buy a stolen car and he get scammed than he should mind his way to conduct business.
I’m not going to keep this conversation on. Sorry.