I also don´t think that we will get such a PvP model, I just said that it could encourage server renting.
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Ben did say that PvP would be sort of like planetary conquest. Nothing you can do to other people’s beacons but you can be an unpleasant and unwelcome neighbor basically. @Vastar is right in that renting a server would solve that sort of problem.
@ben most recent comments describe PvP “as a friendly scrap between friends”. I doesn’t sound like you will be able to be unpleasant with that. Which feeds into the idea they intend to keep the community a positive place.
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I meant in terms of potentially marring the landscape (inside claims), competition for resources, etc. Where there’s a will there’s a way, unfortunately. Also, Ben has suggested this will be possible:
PvP sort of encompasses a lot of sub-types. 1v1 fights may be a friendly scrap but you can’t do much if a group moves in right next door. But you can with private servers! 
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That´s not how I would interpret the latest statements on PvP from the devs. As far as I know they just said that they won´t spend too much time on balancing PvP and/or consider the PvP aspect of a new item while designing it.
(My) Experience tells that the availability of PvP has generally a rather small impact on the manners of the community. Surprisingly I´ve experienced that permanent PvP often even encourages good manners between players and not the other way around.
I’m so glad you’ve marked that as (my) hahaha. I’ve never experienced this and the research on competition in video games definitely disagrees with you.
For more see some of my experience with said research.
As far as I’m concerned PvP should be optional. Whether they do this through PvP worlds, PvP Beacons, or dueling functionality doesn’t matter much to me. But this should give those who want it a way to experience it and those who don’t want it a way to avoid it. I do understand this isn’t the viewpoint of many people though, as their surveys have shown.
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This of course hugely depends on the general maturity of the community of the game.
In EvE Online ( a game with an insanely polite and mature community) this is a pretty frequent experience.
When you are mining in the PvP areas (where the good stuff is) you mostly get a friendly “hy” and maybe a short chat when another mining ship warps into the same mining belt whereas in the PvE belts you mostly just meet a bunch of players that constantly insult each other because they can´t harm each other anyway.
But i can imagine that this is a very rare sight on the average Minecraft/Rust/DayZ server, but we don´t want to compare the B< community to those communities anyway, don´t we? 
And that´s how we complete the circle to my previous statement that started the PvP discussion: 
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At first I was going to mock this statement, but now i’m seriously curios about your experiences.
When I think of pure unadulterated PvP. Here is what comes to my mind.
Eve Online - I jump you, web you, scram you, prison shank you, take away the equivalent of a week of your life, mock you in chat, bump your pod, ransom you for money, then kill you after receiving payment for the lulz. I join your corp scam the entire hangar rob your blind, then give away some of your assets in Jita, like a rapper making rain because why not. Run scams telling new player that if they transfer their assets to me I will let them join our super cool alliance, only to keep them and laugh, then post about on the forums, that’s a game in and of itself.
League of Legends - I autolock a role based character without looking at my teams composition, I rage at a newer player for feeding, talk ■■■■ to them about how on earth they made it to X level of play, I stand outside bushes, cue taunt and play music in my live stream to show disrespect, work on timing the best way to kill you to make sure it is funny, and disrespectful.
Minecraft - Factions PvP. I TnT cannon my way into your base. Kill you and your factions mates repeated until we can claim your land, and take all your stuff. After pillaging the base, writing insulting words in nether block and lighting it on fire, just to ass salt to the wound. Or I break into your base in the middle of the night using cobble cancer methods plus TnT, and or Creeprs. Rob your entire Faction while you sleep. Perhaps, a faction full of 12 year olds all asleep on Christmas morning… Better yet, roam around spawn looking for new arrivals, jump them while there setting up a basic shack and farming, gathering all they have managed to amass and throwing in into a pile of lava.
Now, tell me about some of your experience where. “permanent PvP often even encourages good manners between players” occurred.
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This pretty much mirrors many of my experiences hahaha. Or the far less toxic and far more hilarious horde chat in Alterac Valley horde-side. Always a hoot when over half the team tries to be the leader and then they start trash talking each other while getting mowed down.
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AV used to be such a different experience…
Perhaps if I shared some of my personal reasoning for wanting to privately rent a server? My main motivation is of course the ability to select who gets access to my world. My plan mostly depends on having a small world and on setting the capital as the only route to the planet. I would then set the world as a guild sanctuary where all Guilds could co-mingle without agression, trade, negotiate, and recruit. At the center of this city would be displays of my own guild progression, wealth and craftsmanship. Outside of the city, only members of my own guild would have access to the resources and titans on that world.
My guild would gain
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A planet full of uncontested resources (other worlds would still have to be colonized naturally, due to resource distribution.
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A central hub to any/all other highly populated worlds, cities, and strongholds.
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high volumes of trade traffic which can enrich my own guild with simple beacon taxes and admission charges.
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an unassailable central stronghold from which to operate.
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In a pocket system with one eye at the d-scan and the CVA database you could calculate the risk of staying in the belt
Also you talk about the interaction with a dedicated PvP player (pirate) whereas I was talking about the interaction between miners (like it could also frequently happen in B<)
This is, as you said, scaming and an entirely different topic than PvP.
First this is a moba and a competitive game so it might be a bad comparison/example to B<
Second, LoL has a pretty immature community and, as I already said in my previous post, “positive” PvP behavior rarely occurs in such communities.
Beacons might fix those issues / prevent such behavior. Also faction servers are server that are explicitly hosted to encourage PvP and therefore have a very high concentration of players that look for such gameplay.
Of course there are always plenty of players you can use as bad examples, regardless of the game. All i wanted to say is that enabled PvP doesn´t automatically mean that the community turns into a horde of pillaging barbarians.
I already mentioned one above. I´ve also met plenty of friendly players on the public Rust servers and occasionally also met someone in Dayz that tries to chat before he starts shooting. From my experience the death toll has one of the biggest influences on the “PvP encouraged good manners” (next to the maturity of the community)
But there are also plenty of counterexamples of scenarios where the community gets toxic n a PvE environment. Random Dungeon/Raid finder in WoW (or any MMO) for example.
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Whoah! @Illuminoorti just went from a small fun lore rp guild to wanting to be a universal powerhouse!
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I cant believe you are still going, let me break it down. ‘‘Some people are scumbags’’ ‘‘some games attracts more scumbags than others’’ there isnt much to it.
in my view though most hardcore pvp games do have a sort of ‘‘kill on sight’’ or rage community, as you mentioned rust, ark, dayz. etc. in pve games there are also people who are griefing, but it is rather limited how much they can grief, and as such they generally tend to not play those games, so i would agree with @Karko in the fact that pvp games do have more griefing and more rage (as a result of the griefing) however what i would disagree with is that i dont think they ‘‘breed’’ a bad community, but rather attracts more of the griefers, so it seems like they are breeding.
I find this surprising too, because as karko mentioned, this makes no sense, pvp games encourages you to kill other people, hence more people dying to people, hence the PVP i will give you though that it also adds a sort of group mentality, that you are afraid of dying because you are alone so you team up with people, this however comes with a bunch of backstabbing too.
so personally i would say that pvp isnt really bad for a community, however if you have a scale saying ‘‘Griefers’’ on one side and ‘‘Good guys’’ on the other, a PVE game might go from -2 to 2 in terms of experiences, while a pvp game might go from -10 to 10 depending whether or not you got backstabbed or some stranger swooped in to save your life in the last moment from an enemy
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Fair enough, It is interesting you mentioned Dayz/Rust.
Totally off-topic, but I always though the idea of asking someone “hey are you friendly?” to be a fascinating insight into a play style difference in survival games. I personally shot anything that moved the second I caught sight of it. In unturned they were kind enough to label my character with a -10.0 so there was no question what was up. I remember people being like dude, why did you kill me? And I would always reply does somebody ask you why you fragged them in Quake? No, that is the point of the game. But it turns out there’s a bit of debate there.
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I think the point of survival games is that they want you to work together, however as you mentioned, most just ends with a kill on sight reaction due to fear of dying. this cant be avoided though, since that is how survival kinda works, the sense of never being able to trust anyone, i find that to be the most interesting point of a survival game though. i wont kill on sight, i will wait however and backstab them when i have the chance. its fair game.
There no doubt its more challenging to play using the trust model, and cooperation tends to be more rewarding.
Personally, I’m actually excited that this games focus is PvE first. I would rather be friends with everyone here than hunting everyone down, and living in constant fear.
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I’m still a big fan of PvE worlds and dangerous PvP worlds. With both of these available - we can then learn about player’s preferences - and balance the game accordingly.
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As james mentioned that was how i just supposed it worked, i still think the best would just be having some worlds be pvp and some be pve. letting people play what they want.
I’m not opposed to PvP worlds, I just think people will probably enjoy PvE more. EQ1 did the same thing. The server split revealed what people really wanted. It was like 18 to 2.
@james I think the real design challenge in this connected environment is. If I can base out of a PvE world what makes player want to go to dangerous worlds. And what mechanics would case us to run into each other, if we can just venture in at will.
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Yep - I’m not suggesting it’s simply sufficient to put some PvP worlds online and hope for the best. Clearly more is required.
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