Mesh Limit Design Changes


#1

As mentioned in other posts I ran into a mesh limit issue that I am not too happy about. The reason for this is at 1300 hrs in game I found this new limit to completely stop me from being able to add the new and future machines/items in my existing house. It would basically require me to redesign my workshop even though I have space to put things but without understanding what mesh limit there was and if my efforts would succeed. Note I can’t even place a torch because of the limit.

I completely understand the concern on mesh count and how it could lag computers within the current game engine. I feel that if there is no other way around this then we do need some type of limit. But, based on what I am seeing right now the limit isn’t making sense and I think there is a bug or other type of problem with it because of the problem I am having. Or the limit is way too severe.

So I wanted to offer a few observations and suggestions on how to change the design:

  1. My house (Berlyn, 1023N 1484E) has a multiple floor design to keep it smaller and looking like an actual house. The mesh count was 526 in each plot of a 2x2 plot area. All other plots around were much lower in count. Since mesh limits apply to the chunk which is vertical, that means all 3 floors of each plot were locked with no ability to build.

  2. I found a tower (Elop Portas, -2139N -377E) that was a 2x2 plot design as well and had about 637 meshes in each plot. So we have a case of a higher mesh count than mine but if the limit was set to the highest mesh count in all the worlds then I would have at least 100 more meshes that I could place – yet I cannot. So the limit must be set to 526 and not 637 since I cannot place, or there is a bug.

  3. Cities are the biggest reason for mesh limits, yet many only hand people out a 2x2 type design and we also see many towers in cities because of that 2x2 design. Due to this you will have builds that have multiple floors like my house and come across people trying to place every item and machine (at least 1) in the game on each of those floors. My house didn’t have an excess of items and mostly focused on ensuring each item had at least 1 storage and machine. So the mesh count needs to at least allow for that in the design. You have to expect smaller 2x2 builds across this game and that they will be putting a lot of meshes into that 2x2 area.

  4. I visited many cities and workshops that were not locked down and looked at the mesh count in the dev tools. I noticed many plots that had 200, 300, 400 values even in builds that were larger ones. So even a large build could accidentally be designed in a way that results in more meshes in 1 plot than expected with low mesh values in the plots surrounding the large one.

Here are some suggestions of how to make the mesh limit easier for us:

  1. Offer a FPS counter in the upper right like you do for the network MS value and ping. That way at least we can see easier how computers respond to mesh lag.

  2. Offer an entry in inventory like you have for plots that shows us when we are near the max amount of meshes in a plot. This helps us plan a bit better.

  3. I’m not sure the design but it appears mesh limit is focused on a single 1 plot vertical chunk. Instead design it around the AVERAGE mesh values for a 8x8 or 16x16 PLOT block. Or something like that.

This allows a better count of the actual meshes in the area since that is how builds end up. Most builds had a high mesh number in a single plot and very low numbers in plots beside it. If we focus on the average then it makes it much easier to support builds and not cause a constraint situation where a couple plots completely ruin a whole build and time the person put into it.

Additionally, this AVERAGE mesh count across plots or whole beacons would fit better in a city design as well as a small house design like mine. Obviously the average number still need to be very high to support all the items in the game.

If you are still worried about some fool taking the time to get all the resources needed to craft a million machines and pop them into a single plot then set a mesh limit but please make it at least 2000 or something much higher than my 526 or the 637 build. Those places are done in a way that could be VERY common in the game and shouldn’t be hurt because of a possible grief situation that isn’t likely going to happen.

I know there are a lot of things on the devs plate to look at and change, but I hope since this can be looked at because if we are getting new items that will increase the mesh limit then you might start seeing problems soon because of the limit being too low or causing problems with simple builds like mine.


#2

I have to admit that this is something of a concern to myself too. I like building my house on top of a small hill and then digging down into the hill to make my workshops. Due to the amount of space now needed for the power coils it means I can only fit 2 machines per floor. Eventually I’m going to need at least 4-5 floors if I include storage blocks as well as spark cores. If there is this vertical limit with meshes and not knowing when I reach that threshold it could throw my whole design out the window. I don’t want to have to build a sprawling workshop that takes up 10X the footprint just to be able to fit all the machines in. At the moment I’m nowhere near ready to build all the coils etc but at least I know the plots beneath my build are reserved so I can expand as an when I need to. If I have to build a sprawling workshop then I’ll have to make sure I plot all the horizontal space before hand in case someone builds too near me in the future and ruins my expansion.


#3

And, if I understand this correctly I guess you could run into trouble if your neighbour have a lot of meshes. Because there is a limit per chunk, right? Not per plot/beacon.


#4

I’m curious: how many of the props in your plots are power coils?


#5

None, thats why he is so upset. :sweat_smile:
(The Mesh Limit was introduced together with the coils IIRC)

That already exists! It’s called the Frame Time Graph in the F1 Menu.
It just displays Milliseconds per Frame instead of Frames per Second.


#6

I’m not sure how big a CHUNK is. That is another thing I would like shown in some way. For me all I know is on each of the plots in question the mesh count showed 526 but every other plot surrounding it was lower and allowed placement of objects. I would assume that 2x2 was a chunk but it would be surprising if I literally built my house right around a chunk perfectly.

Yeah like Kirinvar said, no coils. Basically first floor is light furniture and house looking stuff. Second floor is a 2x3 plot of 3 high storage blocks surrounding all the walls with half the area filled in with additional shelf type storage. This is to support all items in the game. Third floor is 2x3 with the blocks not working now having 6 or so refinery and workstations along with 2 mixers/compactors. So not lots.

Yeah I’d like this moved into the mainstream display and not under F1 dev.


#7

You could just use Steam’s FPS counter too, under the settings in the steam overlay


#8

That would not be an in game native solution like the network setting is. If we are going to worry about FPS and computer lag in game there is some level of sense in offering a solution in game for characters to actually see their FPS.

As mentioned these are just suggestions for how to improve the game if they are going to keep mesh limits in place that are restrictive or in the game at all. It would help people in the long run.


#9

Yeah, agreed. I just meant in the short-term


#10

Chunks are 8x8 block columns (aka a column of plots)

Edit: nope! See below


#11

No, chunks are 16x16, each chunk has a 2x2 set of plot columns in it.


#12

Well, hell!


#13

Thank you so much for that clarification…

I am very surprised then the 2x2 plot group I am working in for my house was perfectly inside a chunk. I guess I had bad placement in my house because at least if I would have split a chunk I could have been better off. (Edit: Note I just looked and yup my house sits perfectly in a chunk… oh well)

Based on that then it seems the mesh limit of those 4 plots seems to be somewhere in the area of 2104 - 2548 meshes based on my two examples I found. Or if I split a chunk and hit 2 plots then around 1052…

**Either way I should have added a new suggestion to allow for us to easily see chunk areas so that we can plan accordingly. So we can split chunks or something to help ensure we don’t overload 1 in too many meshes like happened to me.

Edit: There is an option in dev tools under Selection, Current chunk which shows you details on the chunk your pointer is looking at. It would be nice if this stays in the game in a more player friendly option to help with mesh limits. Maybe as an option beside the mesh limit details I talk about.**


#14

UPDATE:

I slowly removed items and tested to determine where the mesh limit is set to: 512 meshes per chunk.

As mentioned by the developers chunks are 16x16 blocks = 2x2 plots horizontally and covers all vertical column.

So I remove items and see 511 meshes and I can place a something which puts it to 512 again. Once at 512 then I am locked from placing more…

IF you are building anything then please look in the developer tools (F1) under “Selection, Current Chunk” to determine what chunk “position” you are in and the amount of “mesh blocks” in that chunk. This will save you hassles as you build if you stay way below that limit because at this point we have no clarification if they will raise the number ever.


#15

I feel like we should only need as many coil blocks big as our machines are, to conveniently be place behind our machines and save space. But triple or quadruple what it takes to build the coils so they still feel like that much of an accomplishment to have them.

Would this help reduce server weight and mesh limits?


#16

UPDATE:

I have rebuilt my 3 story house and basement from a 2x3 into a 4x4 plot area with stuff spread everywhere. I didn’t redo the top floor but would need to if I wanted to store some of the newer items like brews and foods.

I now have mesh counts in some plots of 258 and 381.

So my upper limit is pretty close to the max. This shows that a 512 mesh limit is still too low for anyone that wants to build even a spread our multiple floor house. IF I added another floor and put more storage, etc. I would run into the mesh limit and no longer be able to build.

Devs please consider changing how mesh limits are done. A single chunk limit will not work and severely limit those of us that are builders.


#17

I just hit the mesh limit of 512 as well. Hope this limit will be raised as this prevent me from completing my building :confused:


#18

Sorry to hear that but actually I am happy too since at least I wasn’t the only one. :slight_smile:

I didn’t take the time to determine which blocks might have had a larger mesh count over others – like wood vs stone storage. But, going into dev tools and figuring out what chunk was the problem by checking each plot helped a lot.

Personally I really hope they look at the average idea or something that smooths out the mesh limit issue. Just raising the value will not really solve the building challenges people will face. We need it to be an average or something spread out over a much larger area.


#19

How can I check to see what mesh count I’m at within a particular plot/column to see if I’m reaching my limit?


#20

it should say in the F1 debug info menu