Persistent Players (NPC Mode)

[TheBirne]

Hmmm, only that to many player may cause some lags, but for that there can be a set limit by the game. As long as you have to set a number to buy/sell and/or a gold limit there also can be no abuse by buying or selling all out. So: Nope, no signs of possibilities to abuse from my side.

But on the topic of shop decorations: a simple sign is easy and fast to make and also has low impact on rendering and loading (next to a pack mount for example). Let’s keep it simple but effective (may be you can write a small sign with 15-20 letters for example). Having the offline traders to say or shout something could be also effective, but fast annoying

[Hiyosup]

I was tempted to actually click buy in your example list.

[alexanderyou]

I like this idea. The main reason for most MMO’s to have NPCs is for the atmosphere. Since there isn’t going to be NPCs, this idea would allow something that gives a similar effect. I really like the idea for being an offline shop too.

[Clexarews]

I love the idea but I think the implementation would be incredibly difficult.

[DarkRepulsor]

What do you think would be difficult about it? I’m honestly asking.

One thing I’m stuck on is how to create your shop listings…is it like a second inventory? Is it linked to a “shop block” that functions like a chest? Do you mark stuff in your inventory as “sellable?” None of those seem right to me…and how do you create your “wish list” of things you want to buy?

How does player trading work in other games…??

[Clexarews]

Just coding it in general. But hey, I’ve only taken a few courses in college whereas these guys are, quite literally, pros.

Edit: Basically the idea of hitting the logout button, which traditionally stands for “Oh hey this person is done playing, time to save their data to the server and take them offline” and making it into something like “Oh, let’s save and take this person offline but somehow instantaneously generate a model of the person or leave an echo or some such of it with a bunch of pre-configured options, give it a basic AI, have it take up some space on the server, and somehow have it generate it’s own data that we then upload to the actual player the next time they log in.” With my basic knowledge, this seems like a difficult feat.

However, as per Ben’s post from the design team thread, shown below…

@ben

When you think of, or read about a cool feature that could be included in Oort Online think about how we, a 20-ish person team, could deliver it. What techniques or shortcuts could we use to deliver it whilst retaining the feeling of the original suggestion?

if anyone had any ideas about coding shortcuts, that would be pretty helpful to the devs, I’m sure!

[Kerpie]

aw feck um this is possible in a way cause some servers in minecraft have plugins that make it where if you log out your character model may be left for an extra 30 min this is mainly so that they can’t pvp log, but it does work by keeping the model the rest has not ever been done though

[alexanderyou]

All I know is that I have seen some fairly similar mods for minecraft. You just have the character model, and instead of the player controlling it the server does.

I think having a gui when you’re logging off where you can choose what you want to buy/sell and for how much would work.

[TheBirne]

@DarkRepulsor: For the setup of the shop menue, just make it as a generic trade menue like you have shown it in your graphics, but at size that it fits next to your inventory. If you want to sell something, drag’n’drop it on the sale part of the window and enter a price and number to sell next to it (per unit) by clicking on arrows or entering with the keyboard. If you want to buy something drag’n’drop it on the buy part of the window and enter a price and number as well (sure, so you only can buy stuff from which you have at least a single unit, but on this way you would not have to implement a long database to chose from. But if you search for something new and specific, just search for it if you are online ).

When you drag and drop something in the shop it does not move there from the inventory, it is just listed. May be the shop window will be saved so that you can setup it more quickly if you re-login and -off again. … On the same way trading chests/tables can work later as well (only that stuff moves there when dropped in the sale window), but that is for another topic

@Clexarews: For me the only real problem seems to be the ai which would lead to the movement of the NPC-player and the saving of it’s position. If he is standing/sitting still you could link his position to a “empty” block (cuz noone stands in the ground) and let it be loaded together with the chunk if a player approaches. There could also be the way that the npc is not really moving on the server side, but at the client only. So the position where it starts to move would always be the same for each player, but then when loaded it would move arround, even if it is not standing or walking on the same place for each player who’s looking at it. This would be a bit confusing for watchers, but on this way the server don’t have to actually move the position of the npc or has to keep the data in memory for the whole time (just when somebody’s client loads the chunk).

The saving of the shop menue should not be a big problem, cuz if could be loaded when a player clicks on it (only the sign or other possible decoration has to be loaded while the chunk is loaded, but that should not be a big data transfer )

[TheBirne]

Hmm, just found a way of “abuse” or “sabotage”, but on the other side of the … What if a player who has the rights to build in the beacon places blocks where the NPC stands or build a cage around him?

For Placing them directly “in” the NPC, the player could just be moved or disapear, but what if it is trapped in a building? …hmmmm, something to think about for sure ^^

[DarkRepulsor]

@Clexarews Ah, okay, I see what you’re saying. I have no coding knowledge, but a big assumption of this idea is that handing control from the player to a simple AI with some shop features is still way, way less work than the dev team creating hundreds of unique NPCs themselves.

@TheBirne Okay, I like where that is going. I don’t think you should have the shop menu open every time you hit ‘E’, but maybe it’s something that you can hide/show while you’re in there.

Linking to your current inventory, perfect. So I can list my 40 Gleamarrows as for sale, but if I go shoot 10 of them before logging off, no big deal, the quantity updates in realtime. I think I like that better than an exit menu, as @alexanderyou suggested.

Creating a wishlist by typing in item names and having them auto-complete makes perfect sense as well.

As for the server keeping track of AI avatars, I really don’t see the issue…it’s already doing that with the orange goat-turkey-things, and by the time the game launches, there will be a lot more mobs wandering around than just those…seems like you just treat player-NPCs as non-hostile mobs, with the added shop dialogue stuff…like I said though, no coding knowledge here.

@TheBirne to restate, “what if a player builds a trap around an NPC?” I think that if you can only go into NPC mode while in a beacon you have access to, that probably solves most of your problem – other players can’t build there. Unless it’s one of your guildmates or something…in which case, hopefully they are not as motivated to do something like that.

Either way, I think that even if your NPC is set to wander, when you log back in, you reset to the spot where you logged out.

[TheBirne]

@DarkRepulsor

I think that if you can only go into NPC mode while in a beacon you have access to, that probably solves most of your problem

yes, it would, but then it would also lead to the sitaution that wandering traders cannot setup a shop in a random village if logging off. … May be you can chose to “spawn outside the beacon” as long as you don’t left it allready. On this way you can “flee” if something went wrong in the time you were offline. I mean this problem would also occur if you are not visible as a NPC, but just log off and in normaly (like in any other MMO) and somebody traps you accidently (And I don’t think it should not be forbidden to log off in a beacon of another player ).

@DarkRepulsor

Either way, I think that even if your NPC is set to wander, when you log back in, you reset to the spot where you logged out.

yes, that sounds reasonable

[DarkRepulsor]

Collapsable, tabbed shop listings in inventory menu

[TheBirne]

Want . To . Have . ! …

Damn, your pics are just wow. Now I want the feature even more!

[Clexarews]

@DarkRepulsor

a big assumption of this idea is that handing control from the player to a simple AI with some shop features is still way, way less work than the dev team creating hundreds of unique NPCs themselves.

This is definitely true. But way harder than not handling NPCs at all, which I thought was the original intent ;). But don’t take that comment as me being against the idea, I love what people are thinking of with this. Also, your pictures showing the design of ideas are amazing. No idea how you do it, but they make me incredibly excited, so keep up the good work

[TheBirne]

Hmm, said for my perception I never thought that you are against the idea at all. It were just positive criticism in the possibilities to realise the idea, which was good and is needed sometimes. It is good to see that there are people with enough knowledge to be able to say if if something sounds reasonable and possible or if it would be to complex or unrealistic. Keep on thinking and discussing the way you did

[Clexarews]

I definitely like the ideas of an external shop system. For some reason, looking at previous ideas, I had thought people wanted it to be internal and based off of the character that isn’t logged in. But if the character is synced to an external shop system that updates character information/shop information upon log-on/log-off, that would likely be far easier to implement (I think) than somehow basing it off of the character that isn’t even logged on.

And I also misunderstood the idea of leaving character models behind. I thought people wanted the actual characters to be left online even though they were offline, but leaving behind an aesthetic representation of the character shouldn’t be too difficult.

[DarkRepulsor]

@Clexarews

This is definitely true. But way harder than not handling NPCs at all, which I thought was the original intent .

Ah, good point . It would still be super cool though.

So, there are really two ideas being discussed here:

• “NPC Mode”
• The player driven economy

We should probably be able to trade while online, not just offline. So there’s probably a bigger discussion about how the player driven economy works…suffice it to say, having an offline NPC Mode could hook into that somehow, whatever it is.

[Larfleece]

I am infull support of this idea. Hands down one of the best suggestions I’ve seen on the forums so far. Even if it might take some (or a lot) more work than desired to implement I would bet quite a lot that having such a feature would be enough to draw more than enough players to the game for it to be financially worth it. From a marketing view you could play that up so easily as a selling point.

[Zouls]

hmmm? interesting… but there are some big for and against’s. Since i would be mostly indifferent if not slighly against i am just gonna keep watching. just wanted to compliment you on your drawings as always