Skillpoints / Skillgems

this system is heavily inspired by ESO because i think it would be a great way of adding some choice without adding limitation to the game, and yes i know some of you want to never have to take a choice, but this is how i personally could see it work.

‘‘Use it to Master it’’ seems to be the idea of combat and crafting (atleast from what is on the site.) and there are 3 ways that could work for skills and combat

  1. whenever you get a certain mastery you instantly unlock a skill
    Ex. you hit sword skill 50 and you unlock quickslash

  2. you find scrolls with a skill that requires a certain amount of mastery to unlock and is then permanent use
    Ex. you have found the Skill scroll called Sword skill: Quickslash which requires sword mastery 50. you have gained it and activates the scroll. you have now learned Quickslash

  3. whenever you hit certain milestones you get 1 skillpoint which can be used for any skill and you get 3 possible skills you can learn

Ex. you hit sword mastery 50, you get 1 skill point and gains the ability to learn Quickslash, Puncture, or a passive called Agile fighter you think about it for a while but choose to place the skillpoint in weaponsmith instead, these 3 skills are still unlearned and can all be learned if you use skill points on it.

Now you ask ‘‘but then i cant get everything’’ Falter not comrade! hope is near! all you need is to gather 3 skill shards to unlock 1 skillpoint.

This comes from skyshards in ESO, gems that are placed at specific places in the world which gives 1/3 of a skillpoint, with a few changes.

  1. the Skillshards will be randomly spawned and always have a set number on every world
  2. They are one time use kinda like a mining note, when 1 person have taken it it would disappear and a new one would spawn.
  3. they enter your item under your pouch so they arent dropable, these shards can be traded and used by other people

they would look something like this.

they need to make themselves visible kinda like shooting a beam into the air which these skyshards does.

This system means a few things.

  1. you dont just autolearn every ability but you dont have to farm every skill trhough random drops either
  2. because they are tradeable you are not forced to get them, a crafter might buy them from an explorer, making explorering more profitable and desireable.
  3. this does not mean you dont need to level your mastery, you still do, i still need to level my mastery to 50 to get the quickslash, i just have 2 other abilities (both actives and passives) i can choose to learn again
  4. this gives the nice feeling of choice without being a limitation.
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I like the second and third way of doing skills.

The skillshards being tradeable would be nice for the economy, I’m not sure why but I thought that maybe instead of just randomly spawning, they could fall down from the sky in the form of a shooting star? I think I recall seeing someone mention that shooting stars in-game would be cool.

And so that people don’t rush to the landing site, it could be mined by a group and when they reach the center each person can collect one shard. Or the skillshard could have been broken into pieces inside the center from the impact and each player gets X amount of skillshard fragments and they have to get Z amount of skillshard fragments to put them together to make one skillshard? (I’m just throwing ideas out before I go to bed. :smile:)

P.S. I also didn’t know skillshards spawned randomly in ESO, I thought they were in the same spot for each person but you could only collect that one skillshard once. But I haven’t played much since it made me feel lonely.

they arent random spawn thats the point, they are put at set places but i think that is kinda impossible with the way that Oort works. also the problem with ESO’s system was that it had nothing to do with exploration because they were always at the same place. so although you might look for them first time, there wasnt really any point of exploring,. heck there are addons that shows all of them on the map.

also problem being with them being added as a meteorite (although it is a good idea) would mean that it could never spawn with a cave system or anywhere with a roof. making exploring caves a waste of time in that sense.

also as you mentioend if they come as meteors people will always just rush for the site, which is why having them spawn at random places would be better (in my eyes) because it would reward exploration. so you can enter a cave thinking ‘‘there might be a skillshard in here, they sell for so much so it would be worth it’’ rather than thinking ‘‘i know that none have fallen from the sky in that area.’’

What you are talking about in Number 1 is basicly Superskilling, I did talk about that in a Thread before

nah it is actually not, your idea is infitely being able to improve yourself so you at one point reach godhood, but im just talking about like wow where when you hit certain levels you get certain skills… also you might be able to level the skill 1 or 2 times, but allowing superskilling would be a massive hit to balance.

cubeworld kinda did it and also in a non balance changing way. but the more points you put into it the smaller the difference, so i might have my attack in level 2000 but it is only 0.5% stronger than it was in level 1000 which is only 0.8% stronger than when it was in 100. so you could level it forever but it wouldnt be OP.

Didnt you read my post? I said the exact same thing. Cube World uses Superskilling though. And I also mentioned Skyrim where they do kind of Superskilling.

i wouldnt mind superskilling in the way of constantly getting progress. i do kinda mind it in the sense that yours kill will constantly get stronger.

PS: not once did you mention cubeworld.

I dont know if tsuperskilling is only leveling into infinity but for me it is, there are sure more types of Superskilling. But I would call even Skyrims skill system as an kind of Superskilling. The Importand thing is that you Skill only what you use and nothing else.

Didnt said that I mention Cubeworld ony said that I mentiond Skyrim ^^

oh im sorry >.<

but yeah if you use a sword you get better at sword, but you the system you mentioned of infinitely getting better at using the skill so at one point you reach the state of 1 shotting bosses, is kinda BS.

humans love seing progress. so in that way it is fine, but what you mentioned always makes me think of SAO

(sorry i use this often but i love it so much)

the thing that really stuck with me is what they said when they stopped

Kirito (main character) ‘‘All 7 of you have a dps of roughly 200, while my health regen is 240 per second. we can stand here all day you will never get anywhere’’

Pk’er ‘‘Impossible!’’

Kirito ‘‘NO! it is not impossible, the game allows you to level up every skill as much as you want, you can become invincible with this system, it is not fair, no system like this will ever be fair, but you just have to live with it’’

or something like that. this is something i am afraid would happen with infinite skilling up as you mentioned, continually getting stronger with the skill.

but i too dont really mind superskilling if it stops at a certain powerpoint like cubeworld, there are just a few psychological problems with it, they actually tested it. if you saw a level 1000 and you are level 100. even if you have the same power level you will be kinda afraid or demotivated, only tested in pvp games ofc.

Dont compare Players with an Beater, god damit!

Also Superskilling isnt about getting stronger and stronger its just that you get levels over and over and being rewarded, it doesnt have to be the power or damage you make, you can also get what do I know? Money, maybe rare crafting materials needed for your weapons, maybe special - legendary weapons. Let’s Say you lvl up untill 100 then it stops giving your more damage exept for some other levels like at 200 you’ll gate +10 basic damage cause if youre 100 lvl above someone you should be stonger though. But you wont get something at 101-199 Maybe you’ll get Money every 10 lvl

Sure we dont know how the currency ingame will be but lets say you get 100 silver at the beginning at the game so 100 gold would be much. Every 10 lvl you’ll get 5 Gold maybe 8 every 10th lvl above 100 and 10 every 10th lvl above 200 and so on. Its harder to lvl from 200-210 then its from 100-110 or 0-10 so it makes sense getting more gold, it takes more time though.

You dont have to think of Super Skilling like, Do that the whole game and become god. Even the Superskilling isnt there to create gods who own the games one day or another.

ALSO, there could be an way to balance all that stuff like an passive skill that pervents you for getting too overpowered.

For example an Skill I call “Good Knight” : The Skill basicly just reduces your damage against low level Players.
Let’s Say the Stats are like this: Lvl 10: 32 dmg | Lvl 100: 142 dmg
Then the Lvl 10 Player with lets say 256 Life will be down in 2 hits (without Armor of course), thats not fair at all (sure it shouldnt come to an fight anyway but if so it wouldnt be fair) Now, the Passive Skill Good Knight does have everyone from the beginnig, its an Skill noone can choose or choose not to have.

The Skill stats would be maybe something like “10% reduced damage to everyone who’s 20 lvl, 25% who’s 30 and 50% who’s 50 lvl below you.” That would mean you would not make 142 dmg to the lvl 10 Player but 71. It sure is still a lot but he’s lvl 100 what do you expect, an epic 2 hour fight where you nearly kill him cause you’re an lvl 10 badass?! Nope, forget it.

Then there also might be an Passive Skill (That you have to earn and dont have from beginning) like “Giant Hunter”. And Skill that increases your Damage by 15% for an player 20 lvl, 35% every 30 lvl and 75% every 50 lvl above you. In that case you would as lvl 10 player do 56 dmg instead of 32 dmg to an lvl 100 Player but if you fight againts an lvl 10 Player you still do 32 dmg. It just balances the things a bit, not much, but at least that much tht you cant complain too much about the system.

fair enough points.

the last thing about autobalance is kinda tricky

the general idea is that there are no predefined wow like level, so precisely when would a player count as lower than you? how would the system work? would every hitbox have a certain level that every ability in the split of a second would have to determine the level and adjust accordingly? that seems rather troublesome.

there have been talked about downscaling but to this extend it seems like alot of work. i can imagine there is a hardcap on stats for every tier world so lets say you have 240 strength on a tier 10 world, but the hardcap for a tier 2 world is 40 strength. so in that way you would only have 40 strength, you would most likely hit the hardcap over every single stat in that system, and be a bit stronger, but not in the sense of oneshotting.

Well for sure you would not only have an skill level but also an player level. So even if you have an lvl100 player he could be shitty with bows and have no skills in archery. But would be lvl 56 in meele fighting + lvl 44 in protection + lvl 100 in crafting.

You could make the player lvl the half of all the Skill levels together for example. That would sure lead to many lvl 50 players who are all lvl 10 on 10 skill trees but, whatever, if they dont focus on something they are not so strong lik others on lvl 50, but maybe they have more techniques that makes them better! Or not.

there will not be definitive levels like this.

we need someway to determine the strength of a person, i talked about it over on my gearscore post. we need some sort of ‘‘powerlevel’’ but there will not as far as im aware be wow style level

i think your skill levels is the closest you get to levels, if you have mastery 50 in sword + 75 in heavarmor you are going to be way stronger at using those 2 than if you use your mastery 5 in archer and 10 in medium armor.

@james before i talk too much, is this correct? thats how i read it atleast on the site, that there will be no definitive levels.

Well I mean that the player level is for make it easier telling who’s how many levels above or below yours. sure even if your level 100 because of your sword skills that doesnt mean that you’re stronger with the bow than someone who’s lvl 50 and only skilled bows. But you do have more life and defence.

Not neccesarily. Hp and Defense should depend on the armor you are wearing and not the character itself. but as you get better at using weapons you unlock more skills and is able to equip higher ‘‘tiers’’ of weapons, same thing with armor.

I always like to use TSW as an example because they did nearly everything involving skills correct in my eyes, but your stats were determined by your gear which you had to spent skillpoints on, there were no real levels, but you got exp to increase a bar, every third of a bar you got an ability point and every whole bar you got a skillpoint.

so say i am master at using swords and i have it in tier 10 (which is kinda like max level) if i wanted to level my weapon i could either a) use the skillpoint that i got from using those items (kinda like what this entire post is about) but if i wanted to use it i could only use tier 1 and i would not deal more damage than a person who just started.

Dak Soulllllssss skill point system was the best I think

I was just throwing the idea out there, I didn’t really think about them needing to spawn inside of a cave or anywhere with a roof. Maybe they could do the meteorite idea and the skillshard spawning in a cave idea? It’d reduce the value of a whole skillshard but maybe that’d be a good thing as the game goes on, although I would still think they would require that you gather X amount of skillshard fragments. (Preferably a large amount so you can’t just farm meteorites and sell tons of skillshards, or just make the meteorite a weekly/monthly event?)

I think there would still be exploration for the meteorite since it could be a random event that requires either a player to see it falling from the sky then track down it’s location or a player could just be out wandering and randomly stumble upon it. People could still rush for the site but it’s just an idea not a finished product.

fair enough idea. i just dont agree with multiple people taking it or reducing them into even smaller pieces :smile:

it should be a reward for exploration, if you introduce a ton into the system then they need to make more skills to weigh it up, but if you make it random and rare it will not be that much of a problem.

basically in my eyes a shard one person can get which gives a skillpoint, really rare, and really hard to find, so when you finally stumble upon it you are happy and feel accomplished rather than knowing everybody else will just be able to take it too.

but meteorites coming with rare materials have been discussed and that i think is a good idea, but for skill shards, not so much

I love the thought put into exploration here! I always loved exploring in Skyrim @Zouls , but as you said there was no point to explore an area to find a skyshard in ESO after you already found it. I also love the meteorite/shooting star idea @Champy. If I was tending to my farm on the outskirts of town and I saw a huge blaze of fire come crashing down the sky I would be thrilled to go and check it out! Granted I don’t think the contents should be a type of skill shard, perhaps something with more worth. There could be legendary crafting materials in that shooting star, or even fragments of Oort lore that spreads light on the disappearance of the Oort. What also would be cool (probably wrong topic but gonna say it anyways) is if you could display this ancient Oort lore in a museum (you could even lock it away I suppose) for everybody to see and learn about the lore!!! :smile: Omigosh this is getting me soo excited about this game!!!
P.S. Love the thrill of exploration and the mesmerizing sight of a shooting star, ooohhhh and an aftershock would be cool, something to knock ya out :wink:

the only problem i see with that would be people finding lore then never, showing it and keeping it for themselves

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