The current problem with the money system

General
102

The current problem with the money system is… people judge it by their own experience or the perceived experience of others. I don’t buy (badumtish) all this talk about coin being useless. Sure, if you’re around 12 hrs a day or part of a guild I can see how you’d have more than you need but… my experience is I have a little reserve of coin to sit on, mainly selling crafted items, but - BUT - only because I choose to refuse to participate in some of the economy.

For example, if I chose to buy healing brews (I do not), most of my paltry riches would be gone just keeping up with unbalanced meteors. I also chose to craft the majority (but by no means all) of my coils and so on, all could be made easier by coin. That’s the intended outcome. I don’t buy that there are a load of rich people sitting on coin with nothing to spend it on. Even if you can max forge the best hammers, you’re L50 and want for nothing, you could still shortcut your own effort/time by passing coin on minus tax.

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103

Sorry if this idea came up already but I think I have a pretty good solution… and I got it from Diablo 2. In D2 players could sell SoJ’s (stone of jordan ring) to vendors and if enough SoJ’s were sold it would trigger an Uber Diablo spawn.

So… among Titans and other things… players could buy ritual items that when enough have been offered to the gods it would spawn an event in the world.

Or spawn a custom meteor drop…

Or … fee free to add

104

This point ignores requests baskets. In fact, this entire thread seems to ignore requests baskets.

If the market is selling Leaves for 5c, then request baskets (that anyone can participate) will be set for 1-2-3c depending on the player.

People with a lot of money don’t need to buy things…they can set out requests baskets with 100k asking for what they want and have people come to them.

That moves the money to anyone…not just store owners. You literally can gather almost any item in the game and make plenty of c to buy whatever you want.

Footfall is a passive process with rewards builds based on utility, community involvement or popularity. Footfall is a fine passive coin generation mechanic for a game that is going to loose players (and all the coin) and have influxes of new players.

Footfall is not the sole basis for all money you need to make. It is a passive coin generation mechanic that costs nothing to maintain and is available for all players.

The process is currently working as intended…seems great to me.

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105

This isn’t true with a tax system.

The price of a good is the intrinsic value of that good V, times the monetary supply factor S, so P = VS

But the change in monetary supply is the source rate minus the sink rate dS = Sin - Sout

Sout is warp fees plus, tax, where tax T = P*R, where R is the tax rate. So you end up with a full equation of

dS = Sin - Sout_warp - P * R

Or because P = VS,

dS = Sin - Sout_warp - V * S * R

Since dS is on the left and S is on the right, that’s a differential equation. If we want dS to be zero, or steady state, that will be reached when the V * S * R = (Sin - Sout_warp). Since V is arbitrary and based on the individual thing being sold, you really just have S*R, where R is the tax rate.

This general form is roughly the same as wind resistance and falling, so the idea is that you reach a “terminal price” specifically because there is a sink factor proportional to the monetary supply. The higher the supply, the higher the taxes paid, so you reach equilibrium. But other things will change this; if people stop warping because the portal system is good, that goes away and the monetary supply will increase. If people intrinsically view things as less valuable, power coils for example because of their scarcity, then the price will go down some factor, unless difference in money supply changes this.

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106

I do not have a background in economics or calculus but I consider myself intelligent enough to have followed you somewhat. You are correct that I believe very few people warp. Of the six people I play with regularly, only a few of us warp and even then it’s to a location marker on the planet we’re currently on, so 100c at most.

And just to keep things simple without the use of variables and equations, let’s just use a scenario. I just completed my daily login objective and made 100c. I go and spend that 100c on a world with a tax rate of 10%. The player I purchased my items from then made 90c and 10c went down the sink. So now there’s an extra 90c in the universe’s economy. And multiply that now on a massive scale of hundreds of players. Eventually if that person goes and spends 90c and the next person spends 81c and etc. etc. the tax will eventually eat everything up if people keep making transactions without adding any more money. But with objectives on alts being farmable and footfall being so high I’m not seeing tax being this perfect solution. I don’t know the exact numbers for all players but I know that what I wrote is true, at least among my friends and I, even with a tax system in-game. Even within our small, remote bay, our wallets are ever-increasing, as are the prices of the shops we check.

107

I completely agree with this have clothes and cosmetics for in game currency purchase only. Heck maybe even re-skins for your favorite grapple, tool or weapon. I also agree the problem seems to stem from the players who have millions of coin but nothing for them to sink that money into. Kinda off the topic but it could be something like the beacon recolor thing, drop a color or textured block into your wep, grap, or tool and get the color and texture?

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108

Key difference between what you described and the rate of change calculation, is that you are describing a linear increase with a one-time drain proportional to that income. Which is unstable, there is no feedback.

You are missing the feedback link to drain rate and item prices. Once that feedback is established, if it is negative, negative feedback self regulates.

109

Maybe a gem planet with all types (but with same amount as the typical t6) that costs obscene money to enter? You get a 6 hour countdown timer, it kicks you back to whichever planet you entered from.
Course it means an extra server cost and goes against spirit of going and living anywhere…

Edit/ No sure that’d be enticing enough for an entry fee anyway…

110

i have actually fear of deflation, cause material is so easy to get.

when more people overcome the gem wall population inversion happens. This could kill trade until devs add new stuff

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111

I have a hunch (unfounded) that next tier materials won’t be long.

112

shhhhh dont, spoiler

113

I’m new here and to the game, so trying to follow this and some I get and some I don’t. So bear with me if I get something wrong, just let me know where and the correct info, please.
In the area of charging a coin per plot you are, in my opinion, punishing the new players who are planning for the long haul. My son has around 75 plots, I have a bit over 30, not exactly sure how many. He hopes, long term, to have a place where other players will come and set up shops, or he may even set up a couple. Same with me. But for now, we are not near a large population, we have three neighbors, he has had, in a three day period no footfall, I had in a three day period just 20c for footfall. If you charge us a coin a day, we will not have any more coin in a very short time.
A mention was made of complaining about prices, well, I guess you could put me in that category, to some extent. I haven’t ranted, but we went looking at some shops and one had a gold slingbow and wanted 1500 coin for it and 3,000c for a iron fist. Went to another planet and there was a silver slingbow for 500c. We saw for one gold fist the price of 14k coins.
I watched a youtuber play the game and he paid 500c for a gold slingbow. I don’t understand the huge difference in prices, I will ask around and remark that some are too high. 3,000 for a iron fist, and 14k for a gold one is, in my opinion down right highway robbery.
Footfall, didn’t even know it existed, so was surprised at it, but I’m not going to count on it for income. And if I have to pay for my plots then I won’t have any money to spend on some of the high priced items I can’t make yet. Where is the fairness of that and do you really think that people will buy the game when word gets out of how that would be happening.

I’m not trying to be sound whining, just looking at the facts. Players will not buy a game that will punish them for starting out buying plots away from populated area so they can have land for the future. Especially when they don’t have the income from football that they knew nothing about, and see those who have located near populated areas are making lots of money from it; adding insult to injury seeing high prices for items they need. The rich get richer and the poor get shafted, just like real life.
There does seem a need in the adjustment from footfall, from this conversation and also from the cost of items to make it more fair so all can make a profit. I don’t understand how it works out, so I won’t go with it is equal to all in the cost of making such items. Travel distance, finding the necessary supplied to make them and many other things can lead to the reasons for price differences. If just plain greed, I hope they fall on their faces, to be bluntly honest. I have a notebook, a ink pen and my son and I a going window shopping to get prices of items we need. I’m in the mood to kick some ass, need a good weapon for payback to some nasty critters, LOL. Plus, I need meat and bones.
I am having a lot of fun playing. I hate to see others lose out on the fun because the new players get punished because they aren’t rich like the ones who have been here for quite a while. It is my feeling that those who have should have to lose out from football and not make such a high profit from it if they feel it is unbalanced instead of wanting everyone to pay. For those, like my son and me, who hope in the future to have a nice place and some income we will also be in the same boat, losing out from footfall and that will be only fair all around.
Just my two cents worth.

As for players making a lot of mistakes and spending coins unwisely. My suggestion is that they delete their character, or whatever can be done in that area, and start fresh. Learn from their mistakes.

If I am out of bounds, being a idiot, please let me know, politely, where I am wrong, I do want to learn and understand. I prefer to be a asset, not a ass.

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114

punished? no … just dont expect to be the most visited tourist attraction right when u start out. Shops are for the lazy rich people… if u want something, its best to craft it by urself.
When u have ur first portals up, more people will come and if u have something nice to offer, they might remember ur place. The key is to connect ur place with the world

less populated places are great opportunities and u find more material around. The view without the gleam towers is great, just relax and enjoy what u have

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115

The one thing people seem to misunderstand here is how “just getting a good spot” works… to get a “good spot”, you ideally want to be very close to a high traffic volume hub.

This is quite impossible for the new player, as all these spots have been taken weeks or months ago. Thus feels very unfair!

Now, lets turn the clock back weeks or months ago and see what happened. Theres a barren piece of land. Someone starts building. Masses dont battle out who gets to plot closest to this non-existing piece of non-infrastructure.
This person sets up a portal. Maybe someone new plots close by for convenience. There is no thundering hoard rushing through this magical gate. More people come together and claim plots. NOW, here is the crucial time:

  1. 100 people run in and grab single plots just to get one near the gate. Nothing useful gets built for 100s of meters each way. No people come swarming through the portal, nobody’s a winner.
  2. People put down plots and roads that make sense, to shops that are cute/pretty or useful. There is suddenly a reason for people to walk through the portal and not make a u-turn in 5s flat. More people settle nearby, slightly further out. More portals go up. Development rate increases. Now everybody wants a plot here, but these filthy lazy footfall farmers stole all the good land from… uhm… that barren area at the start…

See, theres a reason why places become popular, and by that point the hard work has been done and those involved have appropriately close plots.

I’m not saying “if you want footfall then go make your own hub/major attraction”; I’m just saying that this is exactly what has happened up to this point. If the founders were useless, the hub never developed.

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116

You’re actually wrong. Cause in Theory, and ideal conditions, you’d hope that would be true. It’s something I hope for every day.

But that isn’t how it works. People are greedy. The biggest shops, always sell items for high price, while paying as little as they can for the same items.

Take Fiberish Leaves for example. Most shops sell this for over 50c each, but yesterday I spend over 4 HOURS looking around every shop I could across Ultima, Aqua, and PS shopping hubs/sections to sell my haul of resources, and only ever found 2 shops that requested even lowly 20c, with most of them asking for 1c, 5c, or 10c, with I think 2 of them asking for 15c.

And the 2 shops I found requesting 20c were both very small shops and didn’t have any money inside the baskets at the time.

The bigger the shop, I’ve found, usually the more ‘Greedy’ they are. Higher prices for most of their wears, and lower request prices to restock themselves with.

This is my experience with the game, very rarely are request baskets close to being fair.

And while yes, Shop Owners need to make money too, but say they farm all the items but Fiberish Leaves to make Iron Tools, then turning that into Iron Tools is pure profit except the little ammount they pay for Fiberish Leaves.

So why do they need to jack the price of selling Fiberish Leaves, while requesting it for so little money? Especially if they are rich from selling higher more higher end stuff, like Adv coils, and Forged Gear?

Poor greed, is the answer. Even if they are rich, even if money is mostly useless to them, even if they making 100k a day, every day, they still want more, even if it’s only pennies to them.

This is the practice down in the game currently by most players. And very rare is this not the case, and usually it’s the smaller shops that aren’t greedy.

117

I don’t know if this is a case of greed per say, just good buisness. Buy low sell high is #1 when it comes to buisness.

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118

People do what they want. Get over it and enjoy that u can do what u want too. How about searching for people who pay what u expect to earn with ur effort instead of complaining about those who dont. And if u cant find anyone its normally an indicator that ur effort isnt as much worth as u expected it to be. fibrous leaves is used in many things so shopkeeper have some incentive to hold on to their ressource. Also maybe some people have found out how to get this stuff much more effective in shorter time and in greater amounts than u. i personally wouldnt value it more than 2 c , compared to the effort it is to get, but thats my opinion.
in no way are 30 fibreous leaves worth 1 diamond

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119

“The greed”
You can choose not to sell to them. Run your own shop. Use discord, trade section of forum, even stand in city and use shout. Work out deals, plenty of players will be happy to do that. Reward shops you deem fair with constant custom. There’s a few shops I do that with though it’s painful when portals decide they aren’t going to open ><
A business is not an altruistic enterprise and they have no obligation to buy or sell at what you want and it should stay like that.

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120

Let the big guys under pay/over charge, I’ll gladly take thier business.

Though selling fib leaves is impossible.

121

I am making money selling sap and wood. Plenty in fact…but money is pointless and I just run a shop for fun lol

All coin does is let you warp home easy and around easy, but you could just walk hehe

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