Very simple list of changes

It is never safe to assume you know how hard it is to implement something in a code base you do not work with regularly. Even devs who know a code base intimately frequently dramatically miss-estimate the complexity and cost of a change.

Fivrr and similar is a dangerous way to get resources, since there aren’t any checks to make sure the person is giving you things they own. The company I work for has lost thousands of dollars on marketing that fell through because of last minute realization that there was copyright infringement happening.

There is some dissonance between “the game is basically free to anyone who is willing to wait for a sale” and “if the game was F2P, it wouldn’t be dead”. Those two things can’t both be true.

The type of people who enjoy PvP enjoy it in all forms. If you invite them in for consensual player vs player combat in designated areas, you have to understand that you are also inviting them to try their hand at player vs player building. How fun would it be if you had 1000 people playing pvp but 10% of them, 100 people, started figuring out how to minmax for plot wars rather than minmaxing for combat?

Oh, and btw, if I’m not mistaken, PvP is just a button press, and it was turned on in early builds, but you know what that means? It means the developers did not want it turned on. I don’t know why, but they consciously desided it was not in the game’s best interest to have it in the game.

All of that aside, I want to reiterate this…

So I ask you,


I’m not gonna lie but I’m eyeballing the forge right now :eyes:
Also, for your question, mapping and monitoring of plotting density as well as control systems over plotting are really just a huge waste of time IMO, not based on the core design of the game. These tools, the tools behind bufffer zones, compactness analyses, etc… were largely (again IMO) answers to problems created by a player base that was creating mischief while waiting for (in large part) advertised content.

I love this game, if it’s not obvious to anyone who’s been around. But yeah I would have driven in a bit of a different direction.


I would also point out that while going F2P could bring in a lot of players and money, it also would likely attract negative behaviors. Trolling, griefing, exploiting, hacking, etc. People who are banned can circumvent by creating new accounts, etc. CS:GO saw this happen and tried to use “prime matchmaking” to give paid players a better experience. You can’t really do that in an MMO, at least not this one.

The biggest thing is probably that a sharp increase in players also requires a great increase in moderation, and I doubt the developers would have any more time for that than they would actual development.

We’ve already seen all the fighting and bitterness that takes place over plot wars (ie Biitula) and I have a feeling you’d see a lot more of things like that.


lol you read my mind there :grin: :sunglasses:


Are there statistics (in general, not Boundless specific) to back up the idea that f2p actually ‘brings in money’. I’ve never understood the concept. “Hey devs, work hard, get no sleep and then giv eit away for freeeeeee and they will come!”


F2P is “Free to Play” (stick with me for a couple sentences here).

It’s not “Free to Do Everything” or even “Free to Get The Good Stuff”.

It’s more like when a drug dealer hands you something and says “Yeah, the first hit is free”. If the stuff is good (and only if the stuff is good) it gets you invested (time spent) before you are ready to dig into the midlevel or advanced (paywalled) content. After you really want it the hit can be really hard.

Especially if you just paint on some random gambling style mechanics and proceed to offer in game items with casino-like odds and a good sense of “winning”. There’s a lot of ways to get to the point but the game theory, combined with even much older behavioral models based on addictive behaviors leads a ton of people straight into trouble.

Mainly the problem with F2P is that if you exploit it properly and your IP has some substance, it brings in money too easily. Between that and so much exploitative use a lot of people just see that now as “dirty money” altogether.


I think it only works if you can sell enough items that give an advantage or some type of status (like a cosmetic items) to pay for running the game. And in the case of Boundless the costs directly escalate with the number of players. You have to have more planets for more players, which means more cost. The need for selling new items all the time also means that becomes something the developers have to work on fairly consistenly to always have something new for players to buy.

I have never been convinced that enough players that are only playing because a game is free, will spend any cash in order to keep the game running. The exception is when you pay for advantages which is where the pay2win people start complaining.


I haven’t researched exact numbers, no. But I do know that F2P games like CS:GO, Warzone, and Apex Legends make tons and tons of money on battlepass, cosmetics, etc. There are plenty of people who like to buy lots of extras. Look at all the money people here spend on sovereigns and gleam club for years in advance. Apex charges, in my view, ridiculous amounts of money for purely cosmetic items, but I see loads of people spending hundreds of dollars on them :man_shrugging:t2:

I think considering how few people pay $40 for this game now, there probably would be a lot more spent on cosmetics and sovereigns if the game went F2P and saw a large increase in players. But I don’t think F2P is a good idea at all for Boundless, for reasons already mentioned and what I said above.

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A Wipe Happens I will want a Refund of my 10+ years of Gleamclub back as a wipe will be my last day as a provider for Boundless


I’ll say right now, that if what we currently have is 30% of the intended game, then I’ll say I’m very impressed.

Totally agree with you on that. Playing on the test server, I’ve had a chance to try out the new swords and shields, as well as the new skill system.
I love it! Looking forward to it’s implementation to the live servers.

Agreed. So would a lot of people. Some of the older structures were a pain to build and remaking them would take more effort than would really be worth it unless you’re that into building.

That’s just it. It’s not a competition. The point is to build what you want and have fun while doing so. I walk through some of the cities and think “wow, this level of creativity is amazing.” But I realize that I’m not that good of a builder or very creative. But I still play and build to just have fun.

Cookie makes a good point. People like Cookie have huge places built that took months to build. Too see that all go poof?
For one, the game economy would tank. It’s a player driven economy and if the players with a lot to lose quit, a lot of stuff will be harder to get.

@xxpowerofsoundxx Take some time. Make a new character. Now play that character solo. Avoid all the shops and malls, as well as the portal networks. Get to other planets on your own. Hunt and gather. Set up your own portals. Build everything yourself. Be sure to build a forge and forge on your own. Build your place how you want.
After all that, take a moment to think. This is what your experience would be like after a wipe. I’ve been there. I’ve done it. It’s grindy as hell.


James stated it firmly - universe is permanent as long as the game is supported. Wipes are for early access and testing, not for full release.


Runescape comes to mind.

Free to play games with large revenues because they get people in. Give them access to content. Then charge for things.


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Do you not want to understand that it wouldn’t help?
Let me spell it out for you :

The game is in Maintenance Mode.

The devs are not developping the game. Period. They won’t make the game F2P, they won’t add PvP, they won’t add pants, they won’t add anything else. Like, dude, Update 249 has been in limbo for 1.5 year.
The situation between Wonderstruck, Square Enix and Larian means nothing is happening at all.
There is no “oh but once Baldur’s Gate 3 is done, they’ll come back!”. If there was, they would tell us, but they have no good news for us, so they prefer to let us play in peace until Square Enix shuts the servers down when the contract that links them ends in a few years.

That’s it.

IF Wonderstruck had been able to handle the servers on their own and everything and needed to make a deal with Square Enix, MAYBE things would be different, but right now, it’s fairly easy to sense how tense things are between James and Square Enix.
Then again, it’s that deal with Square Enix that allows us to keep playing despite the fact that the game is bleeding Square Enix (not a lot I guess, but still, they’re keeping it running at a loss).


Perfectly put, i completely agree with the feelings towards the game, its community, and James’ decision…

Also, i use your hub every single day, and i TRULY appreciate it/you :slight_smile:


Thank you, really happy when I hear people are enjoying it!! :smiley:


Successful F2P games are designed with what is called friction, which is game mechanics or systems that make people want to pay money, but also make them want to quit playing. Usually, the game is designed like this from the ground up, but sometimes they are given major renovations to facilitate it.

Boundless doesn’t really have much friction in it outside of GC except for when people want to have lots and lots of plots. The game would need some pretty major renovations for this to be viable.

There is a second problem, which is that there is a different kind of friction that makes people want to leave, but doesn’t squeeze any money out first, and that is poor onboarding, which we have in abundance.

So, a F2P game has churn - new players come in, they get through the tutorial, we squeeze some money out, and then they leave. A handful of people who are less sensitive to friction will stay longer, usually people with either lots of time or lots of money. The former are great at being content (user generated content) for the latter. The latter are called whales.

So, since Boundless is mostly good at bouncing people out before they are converted to a sale, it is not currently viable for F2P. You have to capture that conversion before they attempt to play.


@bucfanpaka for president! :nerd_face: :sunglasses:


if they don’t wipe anything they need to increase the size of the universe… look at all those empty plots which have been PLACE HOLDERS for Freed, George, Harry, Ron, Smith, John, etc… which have been PLACE HOLDING FOR YEARS! (100 plots or more in MANY areas which have laid empty for at least 18 months…

They should AT LEAST remove those… because no one is doing anything to them!

Hey - this is all well and good, just leave Crabbe & Goyle’s plots out of it :crazy_face: