2 skill systems i like

I would like to talk about 2 games with skill systems i really like, being TSW and ESO. i feel that some of these systems could fit amazingly well if there were to come some tweaks.

The Secret World:

http://www.mmochronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Pippa_picture000.png

in the bottom you can see a bar, there is theoretically no levels in the game, since that bar can be filled an infinite amount of times, every time you fill 1/3 of the bar you get an ability point and every time you fill a whole bar you get a skill point, as levels go up you need more skillpoints and ability points to increase your stats and get more abilities and quests starts to fill the bar more times.

all of the boxes have 7 skills. you need to complete the inner box for assault rifle to get the outer ones which are more abilities (who are all really cool tbh) but the abilities cost more and more, so the inner ones cost 1 or 2 AP (ability points) but the first in the outer rings starts to cost 24. 27. 31 and so on, making them expensive.

these requires SP (skill points) every weapon have a dps function and a secondary function and you can increase the stats in either one, after what fits your playstyle. but as you can see they get more and more expensive, first 1 SP, then 2 SP, 3 Sp and so on so forth.

you can see this dude have 6 points in his blood magic, so he can use up to tier 6 blood magic weapons (which is pretty high) but on the other hand he doesnt have alot in the other types, like blade where he can only use up to tier 4 blades, there are 3 equipment types in the game Head, major talisman and minor talisman, the leveling system for those works the same way.

This would explain how to use better tiers of equipment. also the system worked so you would have 2 weapons equipped at once and could use active abilties from those 2 trees.

Amount of actives: 6 normal and 1 elite
Amount of Passives. 6 normal and 1 elite

ESO:

Elder scroll online’s system is slightly different, it lets you pick 1 of 9 races and then 1 of 4 classes.

each class have 3 skill trees which allows you to play differently, that means a nightblade which is a rogue have a tree that makes amazing warlocks and so on, so it is not totally locked but not totally free either.

other than your 3 class skills, every weapon fighting style have a skill tree tied to it with both actives and passives.

There are also skill trees for each crafting proffesion. for armors, each race also have a racial trees, then there are 3 trees 1 for mages guild, 1 for fighters guild and 1 for the undaunted. then there is also soul magic which you use to fill soul gems, and if you have completed a special quest you would be able to use either vampire or werewolf magic.

but never the less. you could have 5 normal abilities and 1 elite on your hotbar. your abilities and their skill tree gained EXP when they were on your hotbar, the more you had the more exp the abilities would get. the abilities themself could level to level 5 and then you could use a skillpoint to morph it, a morphed ability would have an extra effect which would change slighly how the spell worked

This skill is called Assassin blade. it’s main form allows you to stab an enemy for magic damage (because all class skills were based on magicka and all weapon skills were based on stamina) it would cause up to 300% dmg on low health targets.

It can then be morphed into Killer’s blade or Impale

Impale would upgrade the skills so you threw the knife instead. allowing it to be used on range which in turn made the skill useful for archers too.

Killer’s blade would make the skill scale off stamina and weapon damage, and it would heal the person if the target died within 2 seconds of use.

so you have the ability to make it suitable for archers or to make it even better for assassins.

(this system i feel would be amazing to make people who used alot of time on a skill feel like it was worth it, without making it too op @ben @james )

Active skills: 5 normal and 1 elite
Passive skills: Infinite

So in short what i think would be cool.

You are what you wear: that you arent really forced to use any specific playstyle, if you want to be a heavy armor wearing mage then do so. if you wanna be a teleporting rogue then thats nice.

Limitation on skills: I would like to have many skills to pick from, but only be able to pick a few actives and a few passives. that would make it both easier and more strategic, it would also limit the difference on players because even though they have better gear than low level players, they will still only be able to pick and use the same amount of skills as them.

You play your way: this ties into both of the above an specifially the morphing system. allowing players to morph their spells and abilities so they dont all feel like they are just using the exact same thing all of the time. TSW was genius in allowing builds, because you had 515 abilties spread over 9 weapons, and every ability was unique which allows for some crazy builds. the entire concept was also based on synergy between your abilities, ithere were different special effects such as weakened, disoriented, vulnerable, bleeding and so on. you could make builds that tied together perfectly. i for one had a hammer and elemental weapon build. i would use a weakened state on the target which allowed me to deal 20% more dmg, i had a passive that doubled the dmg of another ability and when i used that i could cast another ability without using ‘‘mana’’.

Sorry for the long post xD

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Just no classes, the rest it’s ok with me…

But we need skills to level up when they get used…

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I like use it to gain it so much better than…
I have leveled, so let me see what (seemingly unrelated to playstyle) skill I want to increase with my 2 leveling points.

yeah they will go with the ‘‘level up the skills you use’’ this is just 2 systems i find awesome for different reasons. as i summed up furthest down on what could be used.

I woyld prefer the TSW system :slight_smile: It sounds awesome

it is awesome. just with the change that we would still get AP and SP but you could only learn the skills if you had the proper proficieny with the weapon type.

Please make this happen @ben @james :smiley:

it shouldnt be just like this, but i feel that limiting the amount of abilities you have will force you to think and it will make the UI a whole lot less cluttered instead of wow where every class have like 100 skills on the UI, most which arent used.

i think the team will come up with something truly amazing, but i would imagine it having alteast a few things in common with these systems.

I hope that not everybody is going to be able to craft everything :confused: I kinda like the idea of having different types of smiths and stuff.

Ofc. had a loooong discussion the other thread. this is purely for Combat related skills.

Would be cool to see something like this, but in the form of building and enhancing weapons. I dont think it should be stat based, but more attack style based. Maybe like 3 skills (2 normal attacks and one heavy/ultimate attack). Normal skills do base damage and use up a small amount of stamina/magic, with one big skill with a longer cool down that drains a larger portion of mana (how much would be determined by the power of the skill).
The token system could easily be implemented here, in that you could load weapons with tokens that represent individual attacks. Potentially If you craft stronger weapons you could load more attacks, and broaden your options in terms of attack strategy.
Potentially the EXP bar could go towards creating/ boosting tokens, and you could determine where your exp is going each level. Different tokens would take more or less exp to charge.

be careful with abusing the token system, as somebody gracefully described ‘‘just because you have a hammer doesnt mean that everything is a nail’’

I believe the tokens system is great because of it’s ability to be applicable to many different gameplay mechanics. Tokens are a great, player friendly, way to represent progression. They could work just as well on beacons as they could on weapons, tools and armor. I wouldn’t call using a system that the devs are already planning on implementing for the sake of efficiency and user friendliness “abusive”.

it just seems kinda contradicting no?

i propose everybody can use a set limit of skills.

and you propose that a dude with better gear ALSO have way more skills and abilities he can use.

that kinda goes against the entire idea of your equality speech.

but maybe a rune system like that, but using tokens for everything is a bad idea.

Interesting examples, I’ll take a look (familiar with ESO). As a thought exercise, what’s the simplest but coolest version of this (or any) skill system you can think of? (Those are great AAA systems if you have a 100+ man team size though!)

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There is a fundamental difference between our ideas. I’m saying that if you play longer you unlock more styles of attack. This doesn’t imply that those new styles are stronger or more affective. Balance would be very important in this case. It’s like in tf2 if you unlock a new weapon you aren’t necessarily any better. Certain weapons are often situational, other weapons change mechanics and force a play style change. Some weapons are agreed upon to be better, and others are agreed upon to be worse, but most are a general grey zone. What i’m proposing is having the ability to vary the style of fighting more. You might unlock a double slash sword skill, but that doesn’t necessarily make it a whole lot better than a single slash, because maybe the double slash has a longer attack time, but a slightly higher dps, or other various tradeoffs. A game can still be skill based while allowing for characters to unlock things. Yes, having more skills is a definite advantage, but It’s not a horrid advantage. It’s what you want, @Zouls, just heavily toned down. You progress, above other, newer, players, but you never become objectively stronger. The playing field might not be 100% fair, but it’s never impossible.
I see no reason that the token system is any worse than the systems you have proposed.

  1. allow people to use 2 weapons, 1 for range and 1 for melee, allow them to be quick switch able in case you run around with a sword and suddenly a flying creature gets at you

  2. limit the amount of max abilities that people can have one at any time, both passive and active.

  3. allow people to make any types of build and combinations they want, such as using 3 light armor pieces, 2 heavy and 4 medium.

  4. make spells feel different, if there is a difference on every spell and not just slight dmg changes you wont need a huge amount for it to seem impressive.

  5. let people start with a basic set of abilities and attacks, the more they use a weapon the better they become at using it. the higher profiency might allow you to use better weapons, but make better skill obtainable by either finding certain scrolls or by doing a certain requirement (such as starting with quickslash, and after you have killed 100 enemies and dodged a certain amount of attacks you would unlock a sidestep slash).

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I have always found that natural proficiency in weapons, spells, crafting and just about everything is good. It is the simple, the more you do something, the higher your skill, the greater the chance to hit/crit and etc. This is intuitive and does not require any configuration…

I am also fond of having no skill levels. Put on the right gear and away you go.

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For me, customization and personality is key. And a “open/free” skill system kinda negates that.

Example: me and my friend play together and I say “oh look at this cool spell I got. I can tame this beast for us to ride on.”

What I DON’T want:
Friend replies “oh cool, I’ll switch to that spell too”

What I DO want:
Friend replies “oh cool ! And when we reach the cliff I got a spell that will summon a climeable vine for us to get down the cliff on”

I want us both to have different things to bring to the table so to speak. Same with crafting, I want to be able to make stuff that my friend can’t get unless I give it to him. And in return I want his crafting to give him something I can’t get. That’s the only way trading will be used. If you can pick it up for free, only really lazy people will ever buy anything…

As when playing minecraft we had to pretend to be crafters to get trading going which is really sad.

Generally speaking about spells / abilities / weapon users I’d be happy enough if you get som extra abilities that only your class gets. Mages can do fireballs for example etc. Then if you add some sort of specialization for that so a mage can choose to instead be a frost mage and shoot frostbolts that slow the target or something that would be awesome too ofc. But as long as there’s 4-8 classes I wouldn’t care much if there’s no “talents” at all.
Just make sure I feel unique in a group of people then I’m happy… and I’m not talking only visually.

this is only for combat, crafting i have several other threads about.

they dont want to make classes in the general sense, so dont expect that.

also i wouldnt mind ‘‘archetypes’’ so you arent locked into a fighting style or class so you can become anything you want, but different weapons have different playstyles and even within that there would be things you could morph or focus towards. if you limit the amount of abilities people will use in my way then they will feel different.