A really serious question about svastikas


#1

That’s not a joke.

Boundless is a game with cubes everywhere, and cubes put together can form right angles.
From that statement, I entertained myself making art aligning cubes to test what ornament could figure on my constructions. That reminded me that 5x5mm sheets I used in school, and…

…the shape I get most often is the swastika ( 卐 ) which is totally fine for me since it’s a very old symbol in Europe and in the whole Earth (mostly in Asia and Europe), and it figures everywhere at my place (Pays Basque, France, we have plenty of Lauburuak, which are “rounded” svastikas). In all these places in the world, it has peaceful meanings, and is one of the most ancient known abstract form of art for the reason it’s an easy way to make a rotating shape with squares.
It even is the simplest way to make a good looking frieze in Art Deco and you can see it in friezes on some potteries of Ancient Greece.

But here is a problem: I know for some people it’s still associated with fascism since nazis used it on their flags during the WWII.

So I write this post in the support section to ask the devs if it’s right to figure svastikas, in all the multiple shapes they can be, or if it is forbidden to build decorations using this symbol in the game. I know we live in a time where SJWs reign of terror could be harsh for a development studio.

I read the guild glyph systems will be a 5x5 grid and the most obvious symbol I thought was a swastika with inner points, which to be honest is very good looking.


#2

I’m not a dev but I think’s a good idea to disallow this in an environment like boundless. Regardless of your own intentions, allowing swastikas opens the door to other people (with other intentions) abusing them. I would much rather the devs ban this symbol, and spend time working on the game (much like basically every other game). I think it would be a waste of time and money to police which ones are valid and which ones aren’t.

Asking the question and stating “That’s not a joke” tells me that you know that a large number of people will not be okay with it. This alone should give you your answer.

I have nothing against the religions that use the symbol, and it totally sucks for them that their symbol is being abused because of what some lame dude did, but I doubt those religions want a thousand children on the internet glorifying Nazis either.


#3

I wrote that was not a joke because I know a large number of people in Occident won’t be okay with it. Since I don’t really know who plays Boundless, it seemed okay to assumed all those english speaking people on the forum were occidentals (yet I’m not sure about this).

I played around with the guild glyph creator on boundlesscrafting.com and things like this can very easily happen.
guild-glyph(2)guild-glyph

Also, square-chiseling things around can very easily produce the same results, and it would be wrong to think everybody making shapes like these is a facsist.

(edit: spelling and grammar. It’s probably always not perfect :wink: )


#4

I see both sides here… Im in favor of as little cencership as possible… for one it’s cheaper… how do you make a filter for all the different media where this could show up???

Lego literally cancelled its MMO due to it being too expensive to screen out all the private parts being built o.O

Not to mention boundless already has crosses naturally generated :thinking: at any rate I feel like it should be handled on a per instance basis… if it is used to be inflammatory… that’s bad and something should be done… but if it’s used for what it really stands for… or because it is an interesting geometric shape… then cool ^^

Just my 2 cents >.>


#5

Boundless has a built in self policing system of sorts with the world regen and plots. If it’s built off a plot and a player finds it offensive, they can destroy it. If it’s built on a plot and a player finds it offensive, it has the creator’s name attached. It can be reported, or the creator can be contacted and questioned about it. If it’s found to be prohibited, it can be undone by a mod or dev.


#6

Swastika’s are illegal in some countries that Boundless is sold and played in. If they’re created in the game then they will be removed.

The crosses will also not be included in future world generation.


Boundless Code of Conduct
Boundless Code of Conduct
#7

Here’s the french law (Article R645-1 du Code Pénal) (I translate it)

“Is punished by the fine intended for the infractions of 5th category the fact, except for the needs of a movie, a show or an exhibition about a historical evocation, of wear and produce an uniform, a badge or an emblem reminiscent of the uniforms, badges or emblems worn or produced whether by members of an organisation declared criminal by the Article 9 […] or by a person convicted by French juridiction of one or several crimes against humanity (Articles 211-1 à 212-3, law n°64-1326)”

Since a svastika could have multiple shapes, orientations, etc… it must be very precisely made to be punished by law in France. Then, multiple occurences of svastikas in France in public are possibles. For example, they figure on the floor of the Cathedral of Amiens, or in front of doors in Paris.

In France, this is illegal: drapeau_nazi_invalides

But not this:

or this index (this one figures everywhere at my place).

I also know the European Council didn’t adopt a law making svastikas of all forms illegal within Europe because of a boudhist protest, but I can’t find the source anymore :confused:

Then, I absolutely don’t know what the law is in other countries and my goal is absolutely not to contest the dev team decision, even if svastikas are really good looking geometrical shapes :slight_smile:

(edit: I corrected the sizes of the pictures)


#8

what’s with the crosses? Any countries banning crosses?


#9

You mean despite having to dig up graves to get rare blocks? :joy:
And despite all the other potential problems with it:
Using crosses as gravemarkers in a fantasy universe where no christianity exists doesn’t make any sense in the first place.
I instantly had to think about this talk:


#10

Not that religion doesn’t have any place in all things, obviously, and respecting peoples cultures, heritage, and identity is important, however, understand that gaming environments are normally a departure from reality, and independent from the world that they were birthed in.


#11

Yeah, this is what I thought, though I don’t know if it’s “the answer”. I remember when I first went to the world on which they spawn (Munteen?) I found it a bit odd, since nothing else in the world was based on real-world mythology.


#12

There is nothing wrong with crosses. To the best of my knowledge crosses are not banned anywhere normal.

But:

  1. We never intended there to be any crosses in the first place. I originally asked for a “spooky grave yard” biome not a christian graveyard. But once it was instanced into the world we decided that it wasn’t a big problem and would simply remove it from the biome for the future worlds rather than taking the world offline.

  2. Boundless is a universe of unexplained science + technology, and not magic + mysticism. It simply doesn’t need references to human believe systems, so they should be avoided.


Using religious symbols, labels and signs in game
Hopping Mad
#13

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying :slight_smile:


#14

that was a great vidio!


#15

Really interesting discussion. Sounds like the specific swastika shape used in ww2 that many people recognize as offensive is what will be not allowed, but not all iterations of the tetraskellion shape will be banned. Is this correct?

Fun fact, Greeks called this angular spiral a tetraskellion. It’s a beautiful shape and some day it will be salvaged and redeemed from its unfortunate usage.


#16

Sigh…It doesn’t need to be redeemed. It’s been in use long before the national socialists adopted it and is still in use today in east asia.
@No one in particular, but what other symbols are banned that some find offensive? Would the hammer and sickle get a player in trouble? The death toll attached to that dwarfs the swastika afterall.
Rainbow flag? Many religious people find that offensive.
Star and Crescent due to Islamic conquests? If someone complains that a cross brings on ptsd about the crusades?
That’s the thing about (irrational) censorship, people push for more and more and it never stops.


#17

Svastkas are bad because Third Reich loose war. Hammer and sickle is ok, because USSR won (along with others)

This topic is very old, and gravedigging is not ok. Especially when it’s to stirr hornets nest :wink:


#18

BuzzzzzzzzZzzzzzz :honeybee:


#19

Devs are working on Terms of Use or similar document that will soon be out and clear out such things, also griefing etc


#21

This topic has been answered conclusively by a developer. James’ reply:

Swastika’s are illegal in some countries that Boundless is sold and played in. If they’re created in the game then they will be removed.

The crosses will also not be included in future world generation.