Add rocks to refined gem recipes?

I don’t see any reason to add rocks to gem recipes it just slows players who don’t play game as much.
Collecting 4 smart stacks is just small barrier for well geared players and makes game more grindy for some players. It shouldn’t be big time investment to collect those rocks so it I don’t see any point to change recipe like that.

Current XP gains with stones right now aren’t bad, and I find it ok balanced by how much it takes inventory space from character. To me it is idle clicker game inside Boundless :wink: and gives also players indirect possibility sell xp to others.
When I do mining trips to other planets I collect usually all ores and other veins because those give that xp at once and I drop rocks off when my inventory gets full, except if I have storage on that planet or I am after certain colour.

Rock to stone crafing It is just one easy method to gain xp which I would maybe compare it to some mmorpg system where being in party allows xp leeching while being afk.

As a comment to the crafting tables in builds. I indeed have a large room full of crafting tables. Because a crafting table can hold 8 full smart stacks of items. (not as good as the sale plinth but infinitely cheaper) so it’s the most cost effective bulk storage method I know of in the game. I prefer the storage blocks for visibility, but keep my back log of items in these tables. Better storage options would alleviate this issue and you would see less crafting tables in my builds. So before you assume someone is using the tables for the “rock exploit” you may want to consider the alternative reasons :slight_smile:

(edit) another note, I have 4+ of all machines. Because crafting times drive me up a wall. I hate them, I want to make things and use them. Already put the time and effort into gathering the resources and getting the skills. Now I need to wait for each step to complete. And often several hours per mass craft, even with high power. So I stagger the crafting across many machines. Many refineries may mean the person refines 4 of the same thing at the same time rather than que it up.

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There’s really nothing wrong with the rock “exploit”. You need a near max level character to gather the rocks with a high efficiency. Adding on a teaching pie is just playing the game the way the devs developed it. Alts level fast in most games once you have a max character anyway.

Two that i’ve played- WOW had the heirloom system where pieces of gear increase xp gain by a %. Pair those with grouping with a tank/healer and u have instant dungeon ques that already give a large amount of xp, now multiplied by heirloom buff. FFXIV increases xp gained on your other classes just by having one max level class. Pair that xp buff with running either dungeons or potd (10 floor dungeon that gives large xp boost at the end) and you can level fairly quick there as well.

I do think we need something else to do with our extra rock/stone/refined though. For now i shall dig down to extend my yellow stone storage because that room will soon fill up lol

You really don’t. If you want to gather stone on a T6 world, you need 8 Strength, 5/5 Bonus, 5/5 Hammer, Hammer Epic, Damage Epic, and the 4 points in the relevant atmospheric protection. You can have all of that plus a few extra points to spend by level 20. If you just want to gather stone though, and don’t care about the other stuff, you can do that much sooner. At those lower levels, assuming a brand new player, getting the hammer is the limiter, not their level, and with hammer prices coming down that isn’t too hard to do.

While it is worth pointing out other games that do certain elements well, we must also think about why those games are different. WoW, for example, sells character boosts to level your character up to the previous expansion’s level cap. How would that work if that character also got ~$2 of real money currency for each of those levels? The same goes for the stacking XP bonuses in those games. Also, of note, both of those games work on the model that “the real game” starts at max level.

I wouldnt consider that high efficiency though. At level 20 you lack max zeal, energy epic, energy regen among other stats and also u wont be getting gem and a surplus of other resources as well. I’d say thats high efficiency. If you’re solely after rock for xp then you could definitely do that on T1 as early as 20

I blame this part on forge system more than the rock exp boost…
The reason player can has a lot of prestige in short time is those op forge tools.
Also people can spend real money to buy plots to do that easier.
But mostly forge system is the main factor cause this prestige boost issue…
Think about it, without regeneration bomb would they have that much refine gleam ?
Without those aoe tools, they have that much bricks / deco rocks / machine blocks ?
No. It will takes longer, so only a few players will put their goal on prestige competition lol.

Also i really can’t understand how this fast level up will affect the market…
You only need 1 miner / 1 hunter / 1 crafter those all you need and all i have.
If you give me 6 more level 50 characters, i don’t think i will making more money by that.
This why i don’t see any point it will impact areas of in- game economy.

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Dont think economy would be better off with rock added to refining gems. A refine gem will then cost more because it requires more to make them. This will increase hammer prices and people wont bother buying them anymore. Which then leads to ppl storing more gems and stone. Ppl get bored of no sales and stop playing all together.
Yes prices go up the more ingredients you require.
You can also say decrease amount of gems needed to make a tool, so ppl need to mine less, thus less rocks. Which makes cheaper tools and more purchases.

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I think usually this happen when a game released for over 2- 3 years at least… They have way too much contents for new players. They want to seed up the leveling speed for new players, so they can enjoy the newest content sooner. But for Boundless the game just released for 2 month… and lack of a lot of contents, i don’t think that is necessary feature to add cash shop exp boost for now.

I personally didn’t use the rock exp boost to level up my first character. I did use it to level up my crafter.
But even without the method, it only take u like 3 weeks around to hit level 50. And for a lot of contents, you don’t need a max level character to involve.

Even tacking those on, we are talking like level 30. This is still far away from “near max level” and largely irrelevant as people aren’t doing this (I don’t think in large number anyways) to level their first character.

Ultimately, I think had the devs has another year in development this would have been discovered and the game would have launched without 3x3 as a boon at all. The problem now is that removing the 3x3 boon is going to cause a riot so the answer to this problem needs to be found elsewhere. I personally think the simplest answer that won’t cause a huge outcry is to make it so crafting tables aren’t affected by teaching food, but that isn’t exactly elegant. They could just remove teaching food, but it has other uses. This is a tricky problem.

I agree 100%, I was using that example as a way to point out a key difference between boundless and WoW (real money currency on level up) and why a system that works in WoW wouldn’t work well in boundless.

Umm i don’t think add a few rocks to recipe will affect the refine gem at any point XD
It just rocks. worthless materials in game.
But its really annoying if we need more mats add to the recipe.
so i prefer "Don’t add it ".

The refine gems’ price need to be increased. It needs to be rare items, so people can sell it for profit.
I really don’t think they need to do any balance for gem tools when you can get 1800 gems in one hour lol.
They need to make it more valuable than the current situation.

Now with a nice hammer u can simply spend 3-4 hour in 1 week, and then you can stop mining for 2 month at least, if you are not hosting the shop. Will be enough for your personal use for very long time.

The link I’ve been making is that when all players are self-sufficient there is no room for trades where a lumberjack and a miner exchange their respective harvests. Or where the game has a shortage of miners (e.g.) so mining is more lucrative than other jobs. Whether it’s alts or skill pages players are trending toward self-sufficiency; but alts are much faster. And both forms of leveling up are made easier by rock+pie.

I may concede the point soon though. There are player made farms that also contribute to this and I think those builds are wonderfully Boundless. So xp or not, the game may trend that way regardless. I’m starting to lower the importance of selling materials in my mental model of the player economy and suggest ways for creative players to sell their creations. If those take off than the only issue I see with rock+pie is the cubit generation.

Please don’t remove it. I am not asking them to remove 3x3 aoe…
They can just nerf the damage boon… So make it require 2 hits at the T6 planet with max level damage boon…
It will affect that the cost will be increased. (twice / block means tool durability cost increase) Also the grind speed will drop. And change the forge ingredient recipe back to last patch … So we will still can forge a nice tool very easy, but the gem grind rate drop to around 500- 700. The gem prices will increase again.

At end game 400 - 700 / hour grinding rate is fair for me.
1300 - 1800 / hour is not …
Below 400 / hour will be time wasting…

They can’t remove it was my point, imbalanced or not. While lowering the damage would help some (less rock as a by-product of higher tier mining), it leaves the process in game. Would people grind up T3 planets instead to get the same amount of rock in order to power level an alt? Maybe. I probably would, as this is way faster (and, personally, more fun for me) than leveling up a gatherer by hitting plants for months or leveling up a fighter by grinding level 1 meteors on T3s for a long time.

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Youre right. ~30-40 is good enough to be fairly efficient, which i’d consider near max level lol

I also think excess stone helps the game as well though.3x3 also. At least with the way the economy is currently. People with a lot of stone and desire to build=them buying plots if they can afford it. Lets be honest, the people who can afford to buy plots will buy plots instead of the tedious clicking involved with stone crafting. The people who literally cant afford more plots but still want to enjoy the game have an option to use the rock trick.

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If I am building, I use certain colours, I go collect that colour rock. Then stuff it all into a bunch of my crafting tables so yeah, there is an actual need to have more than a handful of 'm. And 4 refineries is suspect? Wow, then I better watch out then since I’ve like 5 or 6? (only 3 under power). Also have 2 forges, 3 extractors, 2 compactors, 4 mixers, etc., etc. under power and a small area with like 10 to 14 machines with just spark. If you do a lot of different things, you have a lot of mats that need processing!

And in all honesty, this is not an exploit whatsoever. XP eventually gains you cubits, it’s how the game works, if they change that to only buying them I will quit the game. I’ve been buying way too many cubits as it is which would already have been less if they finally added a way for PS4 players to upgrade to the Deluxe edition. But besides that I spent way too much, there are plenty of ways to gain XP fast. You want to nerf XP mining as well then I suppose? If I go out mining and need more plots and thus cubits I skip the persisting pie and go for a teaching and easily level 2 to 3 times in 1 mining session if not more.

And yes, I do sometimes use the ‘stuff crafting tables with rock’ to level up my main (already level 50 on 3 skillsets, currently have 320 skillpoints I can’t use) or one of my alts a bit more quickly, the latter is usually not so much for the cubits but to have a higher level alt quicker. Thing is, it’s a boring thing to do, I rather go mining, hunt, build, etc. Sometimes it just works and wouldn’t want to see it nerfed.

I could live tho if they somehow add a way for alts to level quicker or change the whole skills an skillset thing so I don’t even need alts. I also would like an alternative method of gaining plots, like once the economy is working with the future patches that we can use coin to buy them. And perhaps tokens or something with either cubits or coin or both that we can use to level an alt to say level 25-35 in 1 go but you already have to have 1 char that’s level 40+.

If I had to spend more money on this game than I already have to be able to do what I want then the game is most certainly going in the wrong direction. I’m happy to give the devs as much money as I can and only a few days ago was the last time I did, but sjeesh, this would most definitely ruin my fun and I will most certainly go spend my money somewhere else if I have to wait on real life events in order to do something in the game (a game on which I’ve already spend 100’s of euros) something is wrong. And with waiting on real life events I of course mean waiting until end of the month to get my income, haha.

Not a pushback, a cancelation please. I do not want recipes to change, perhaps minor tweaks here and there but not huge ones. If they want us to use up certain mats and if rock is one of them they will need to find a way to make them usable.

Like signs, loved them, but basically used the same sign (cool slate, Gellis’ own), never needed to make that many. Loved, loved the addition of a gazillion sign materials and now all of a sudden I’m always in need of more ink because I’m using all kind of different ones.

So, what if they added new decorative textures, heck not just 1 or 2 each for each stone, no, let them add like 20 for each. This means we will be going to want to be turning those refined rocks into more than 1 kinds of decorative variant and thus we need more rocks!

I prefer those type of ways to ‘balance’ the game then the ones you are usually suggesting :wink:

Sorry i really don’t agree about this. During the alpha beta we all had alts, but market was very balance.
With even less players we could sell / buy things very easy. Yes a few product’s price were very high, but those bring the product values. The reason is because we didn’t have forge system. We need to pay more efforts to get the resource. Bomb without forge you can’t get a lot of gem either… Before, the diamond hammer had 1x3 aoe effect without forge. Its all balanced. So i really don’t think alts are involve to any market issue.
Even for gleam, without regen bomb the price was fair as well.

So you should blame this for the forge system. Not alts.

Instead, your idea is forcing players interact with others or groups. A lot of players have solo style, they love to solo it and don’t want to communicate with anyone. This kind of setup will make them really hard to get the things they need.

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It’s not 30-40, though. The skills you added on to the ones I priced out are possible at level 25 (50 skill points spent). Half way to max level is not near max level, lol.

Edit: @Venom Forgot about durability drain. That puts it up to 28. Control doesn’t matter for mining if you are at all careful. Max Luck and Max Dex puts us at 36. So, full efficiency is found at level 36, while “faily efficient” is somewhere in the mid to high 20s. You are right, this is getting into the weeds. This isn’t how the exploit* is used. Someone has a maxed out miner and uses this to level alts and generate coin/cubits/a new character that can do an end game tasks without having to get there.

*I don’t think this is an exploit in the sense that it was unintended. Everything is just using intended game mechanics in a way that the devs didn’t seem to plan for.

30 should be better number i think.
You need Tool durability drain epic as well.
So you can use the tools longer.

I didnt mention all, you would still lack max dexterity, max luck for bonus drops, control, tool durability as wade mentioned. All of these add to efficiency. But we’re getting caught in the weeds here lol. Its all subjective

Sometimes I feel like I am playing “go ask mom” “go ask dad”. Here is my in-depth analysis of the forge system (specifically the OP AoE boon) and you will see that I agree with you that it is another avenue to address this issue.

But you will also see the same response from players that they do not want anything to change in that system. So we must look elsewhere for a way to address the problem and that leads us here to this thread, seeing if adjusting the recipes is a way. Looks like no.

There is always at least one person in these threads making strong cases against my suggestions and this thread is no exception. The prevailing trend though is that players prefer to solve issues like these by charging forward instead of correcting past mistakes.

My warning with leaving this as the only option is now we are trading in our most precious resource: developer time. If we need more recipes and more features to course correct, that will come at the expense of some other new feature we may want.

While some players only see my suggestions as nerfs, they overlook the ease of implementing them. They are designed that way on purpose, to try and address the problem without spending too much of the developer’s time.