Allow Goo to Wither

Suggestions
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Hello Boundless Community! (TL;DR AT BOTTOM - I would suggest starting there if walls of text are intimidating)

edit: think of this in terms of being rewarded with additional seed/produce yield, not being punished by withering times.

edit: I think this is probably mostly, if not only, applicable to goo

I’d like to start off by introducing myself, since I believe this is my first forum post and many of you might not know me. I’ve been playing since EA, my presence in the game has been on & off, but I’ve always kept an eye on the forums to keep up with the updates. As a result I feel like I know you forum regulars pretty well, and that you are very ~passionate~ with your opinions and ideas for how to improve the game. With that, I apologize in advance for any pain that just the consideration of this idea may bring you! I understand that this suggestion comes with massive implications for the economy that will have a ripple effect, which is why I need all of you to help flesh out this idea (or, per usual, figure out [if] it is garbage, tear it into a million tiny pieces, and leave it next to the scraps of all my other old failed builds on Storis II).

I’m currently working on building a spray paint shop (have no fear, spray merchants! I’m notoriously dissatisfied with my builds and rarely finish anything more than 50% before tearing it down and starting over. The shop will almost certainly never be finished lol) and have thus been working on a corresponding goo farm. I’ve spent hours and hours combing through the forum posts and external websites that you wonderful people have created as resources, and I’m eternally grateful. I never would have been able to figure out how to grow inorganic crops on my own.

So I have to be honest, I was disappointed at first when I found out the seed return on goo can’t exceed 100%. I completely understand why - I’ve visited all of your beautiful goo farms that are impossibly large, and while I think they are incredible, I don’t want you to be able to expand even more easily and hurt my chances of ever being able to acquire customers. The current seed sink is a necessity - with a seed return of >100%, the bigger players will get even bigger, unless something else is provided to keep them in check. Smaller, more casual players, would never have a chance to meaningfully profit as they would never be able to catch up to those who are already established and constantly growing.

My suggestion is to rebalance farming to get seed yields above 100%, and allow all (high-tier/long-maturity time) crops to wither, not just ornamental/prestige crops. Now I haven’t done the math, so consider these numbers flexible suggestions. [For the lower-tier crops that have shorter maturities, this may not work as well, but I think is also not as essential because no one’s farming or needs a bunch of plain earthyam AFAIK]. For example: Goo right now has an expected maturity of around 2 days. I would recommend that it be given a fixed wither time of 1.5x the maturity, no RNG. You still wouldn’t know exactly when the goo would mature, but you would be forced to start harvesting some of your goo before it was all mature, or risk losing some to withering.

For super massive farms, I believe the big implication here is that you can’t wait until everything is done growing in order to utilize AOE tools. More attention would have to be paid to individual plants on a regular basis. So here’s another fun suggestion that I won’t put in the subject line because I don’t want to double whatever bounty y’all are already writing up for my head: I think crops harvested prematurely should yield nothing - no seed, no produce. But only if the withering is implemented, otherwise it would be an unnecessary additional seed sink.

I think there should still be a trade off between seeds and produce - In fact, I think this could be emphasized further. I think it would be fair give a 0% produce yield on some crops that are at >100% seed yield. Such as for goo, I think it would make a lot of sense for ~110% seed yield and 0% produce on mutation farms. I think we would end up seeing players specialize more specifically in farming just goo mutations, smaller players mutating specifically for certain colors, to help other merchants who are specifically farming pigments, or etc. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting a seed return massively greater than 100%. I know flooding the market will screw the market, which is why I suggest the withering and premature harvesting as seed sinks to keep the market in balance, as well as a seed return only barely over 100%.

I believe smaller farms and players will be able to benefit from this by creating smaller farms that are more easily managed on a regular basis. Casual players could have a small sustainable goo farm that only requires a few hours of maintenance each week. Right now, I have to maintain my goo farm AND find the time regularly to restock/gather seeds. As a casual player I just don’t always have that kind of time, especially considering the time spent getting enough coin to afford Exo regular trips. I know, I know, there are other things to do in this game and other games to play and since this isn’t Burger King I can’t always have it my way. But I quite enjoy farming goo and I wish I could do it just a little bit more easily :slight_smile: I would love to create a goo farm/spray store for say, only “cool” colors. I’d probably call it “cooler than you”. Or maybe a “cold” color shop built out of ice lit up by gleam, I could call it “Cold as Ice”. WAIT it is coming to me - once the Devs allow me to add a song to my beacon (anyone remember myspace? TBT) I’ll definitely create an “I’m Blue” shop. Hmmmmmm. I really need the ability to build a sustainable goo farm for these to ever be meaningfully stocked, though…

I understand that if you have a farm where you have 20K goo planted, withering would be a huge headache. Please know that if you have a massive goo farm that has been mentioned on the forums anywhere, I’ve probably visited it in game and I’m a fan. For all of you - I love your build, I love your farm, I love everything that you are adding to this game. You are an important part of the game & economy, and for that I’m grateful. If such an idea like this was implemented, I sincerely hope that it doesn’t negatively impact you too greatly, and hopefully you’ll still find a way to benefit from new, smaller players expanding the market for you.

Finally, most importantly, this is just a suggestion and the idea isn’t even fully formed. No hard feelings if you disagree (I know you do, I’ve been reading your posts and comments for years and I KNOW you are not easy to satisfy or convince :slight_smile: ), I would love to read y’alls thoughts on this.

TL;DR: I think allowing all (high-tier/long-maturity time) crops, not just prestige crops, to wither, could help rebalance the economy. Crops that currently can’t yield >100% seed could be updated to allow 100%+ seed yield. Instead of the seed sink being due to <100% yield, it would be due to crop withering. If balanced correctly, the maturity time and withering time (combined with their own RNG) could make it harder (but not impossible) to maintain and maximize the efficiency of massive farms, while also making farming more sustainable for smaller or more time-crunched players.

P.S. since this is my first post I’d also like to just give a shout out to the Devs. Like I said, I’ve been playing this game since EA (5-6 years?) and I have loved it. Y’all are doing a great job, this game gets better and better with each update and I’m excited to see where you all take it! I just recently purchased a PS4 so now I’m playing on both platforms, it felt good to throw some cash at the game after feeling like a moocher for years lmao! You all deserve so much praise and thanks for dedicating your time to creating something for us that is so much fun. Especially given world circumstances, we all need distractions like Boundless right now :smile:

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Welcome to the forums :blush: …now DUCK! (j/k :grin:)

I see what you are saying about crop yields. I’ve seen several posts lately asking for higher # of drops for beans, oort, etc.

I believe the current goo seed yields are the best way to keep things even among players. I’d imagine a higher yield would immediately greatly benefit older/larger goo farms? I’m not opposed to raising drops across the board, but I believe most people will say that it will cause a bad ripple effect through the economy.

Perhaps something like adding a permanent T7 where goo kernels could be farmed, would be more beneficial?

Hardcore players will always find a way to make more, spend more, fly higher, run faster, etc lol.

Love the last paragraph of your post :+1:

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I didn’t read the whole thing yet, but would like to comment this to start things out:

You can safely AOE harvest before all crops are ready, the growing crops will just drop the seed 100% of the time and you’ll re-plant it. You only lose time.

edit: I should’ve read the whole post before commenting :smiley:

I like the idea about adding more micromanagement to a field, but I dread it’d make paints even more expensive if the supply is diminished. Maybe requires a paint rebalance too? The effects on other crops which already have 100% seed achievable would be more prominent, there’d be a small window of harvest time or you lose 100% of your work. Sounds a bit too punishing to the player. The economic stimulation would be welcome though!

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I knew it would only take a few short moments before people started throwing things… lol!

I agree with you, increasing seed yields will likely benefit the biggest players. I don’t pretend that this would be a perfect solution, or that it wouldn’t cause other problems. The ratios between seeds and produce, as well as the maturity and wither times, would all have to balanced quite carefully in order to ensure nothing gets out of hand.

I really, really love the idea of a permanent T7 or other permanent kernel source. Wouldn’t have to be popular colors, could be some really ugly mustard, or perm-world colors only. This is why mutation exists!

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With the way the whole system functions currently, I agree this would be a problem. A few players running a few large shops, rather than a bunch of players running smaller shops. Messing with those large players will impact the market supply. I wonder if this farming rebalance would naturally shift the shop market towards smaller stalls, also? And hopefully (in the long term) keep prices stable.

How would you suggest rebalancing paints to address this?

Agreed, especially for the larger players. Perhaps a longer withering time than I suggested to account for this? Maybe double both the maturity time and the yields, to net out at a similar output, and give a longer wither grace-period so that not too much product is lost.

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I think adding withering times punishes the casual player over the ones that can play every day and I am not sure that is a good idea. If I can only play on weekends then by the time I get back in to harvest, will I have nothing but a field of withered crops? So does that essentially leave the big players in control of the market?

Also what about the players using the crops as decoration for their builds? Will they have to just rip them out because they will wither?

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Excellent point! I think for the faster growing and lower-tier crops, I wouldn’t suggest this.

Do you think there is a way that the timing could be balanced to be fair even for weekend players? If say, a plant had a wither time of 8 days, regardless of the maturity rate, it would never disappear before you have at least one weekend to get to it.

To be honest, this I didn’t consider at all. Its obviously a big factor that would have to be considered. Maybe this change could be applied to inorganic crops only, which I think are used at least less-often as decoration. Or maybe some kind of petrifier could be added to the game, turning a plant into just a decorative block that if broken gives no seed/produce yield.

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I’m glad that you are thinking of new ideas for the game but for all crops to wither would actually destroy the economy on it. Think about was being harder to get which means a higher price causing new players to not affording something to create a decent prestige block type like decorative rock. It would be like punishing new players in a way just because they are new. Most farming stuff is hard to setup for a 100% seed yield as it is. I have a small good farm and feel like it would be punishing me for not having a lot of good kernels to keep going. Plus it would cause me to stop every 2 to 3 hours just to see if something is grown in 4 different farm types taking me away from time on exoworlds and building or even mining considering I spend about 4 to 6 hours on average mining each day.

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I would be against withering plants. It punishes players if they want to do other activities. If I dont want to harvest plants for 3 weeks, i shouldn’t be forced to.

Edit: also if someone loses internet or their computer dies, then what… they just lose all their hardwork and crops?? Sounds way too harsh

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Hi again! The economic approach to posting on the forums is to catch and resell the things people throw! :wink:

It would definitely take a restructuring of how timers work for farming, so it wouldn’t be something that would be easy to accomplish. It would be interesting to see how it would work in an environment.

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The inorganic crops already have a lower yield and are harder to setup due to the requirements, so I am not sure why they should be treated differently. Also making it take more effort just because I do not want a plant to wither seems like a way to discourage them from being used as decorations.

I just do not think it adds anything to the game to make it harder to grow things. And as far as new players being locked out, I disagree with that assumption right from the start. Any player can open a store and sell whatever they want. They can advertise in the forums or on discord which is how a lot of none EA players got where they did. I do not think the game should suddenly try to limit what a player can do.

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I am not for this idea while it is a good idea it just creates even more grind to an already stacked amount of grind. I also agree with Kal-el I work and sometimes I just don’t get the opportunity to do everything in one night. All this is going to do is punish the casual player and further the advancement of players that get play 24/7.

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I appreciate all the thought you put into this idea.
The problem is that it adds a forced activity for players farming those crops because they now have to harvest in the time window of ripe to withering. Forgetting, being off in timing or simply having no time is getting a problem then. It gets visible already with people losing plots due to these reasons and would then also happen to farmers.
A mechanic of losing something after a timeframe only makes sense for limited resources in my opinion. Like for land as that is a limited resource which other players may want to claim.

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It also makes it so much harder. Because not all crops mature at the same time. So while some are still ripening others would already be withering.

It creates a micromanage of your farms and it would make it much less enjoyable.

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This certainly would punish players in a new way, and I’m not excited about that. I think, however, there are certain “punishments” already in the game that should be considered, and that would be reduced with these changes.

For example, I feel punished by <100% seed return on goo. Other crops return >100% and can even be gathered on permanent worlds!

There is always going to be a trade off for something like this, and I’m sorry if you would be negatively impacted by the change. However, I challenge you to consider how, given correct balancing with timers & yields, something like this could work to your advantage! I think there is a different timer setup and seed/produce yield ratio that would be advantageous for different types of players. Obviously we don’t want to cater to any one type of player too heavily if it disadvantages the others.

Currently I feel the goo system specifically could use rebalancing, as I personally feel it is difficult to find the time and coin I need to farm it meaningfully. I completely understand that other players have different time constraints, play styles, etc. that may make them feel differently about this, though.

I’m not arguing there is no downside to this change, I just think its worth exploring the different balancing options that the Devs have for some of these crops :smile:

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This might be true, as I do not farm goo I am not in a position to comment. . but any change to the other crops will just make me reclaim my farm and is another reason not to play the game. If I have to have a schedule of when to play so that I can harvest items before they wither then it is not fun it is a job I pay to do and that is not the point to a game.

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Also, this other post is (partially) what sparked my withering suggesting. All the talk of Exotic Earthyam being worthless now that it can be farmed. Obviously we don’t want the goo prices to crash (cause then I don’t want to farm it anymore lol)!

You all are talking about punishing players by withering and unfortunately, yes, that is my suggestion and frankly intention. I think I made it clear from the start that I was aware this would be controversial! Lol.

Withering will punish players, and that does blow. It isn’t ideal. But maybe the trade off of >100% seed yield could offset that punishment and make it worth it, while also rebalancing some other things?

I am also not a daily player, I can’t guarantee that I would be able to get to my crops before they withered if the time period for such was too unforgiving. I wouldn’t be happy about that, for sure. BUT, if when I did harvest my crops, I got just enough to replant them all and sell just a few, I could make a profit without flooding the market.

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Having a forced timer of when to harvest, will just cause another deterrent for players to stay

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The paint economy wont crash because of the 80% seed return. People constantly needing to buy goo kernals causes the price of paint to stay high. Because you either have to harvest them from exos or pay someone.

Withering wont help keep the economy alive for goo. It will have the opposite effect, because now you are forcing all goo farmers to harvest their complete farm like clockwork. Which will be much more frequent than already occurs.

Withering will drive prices down.

Having a less than 100 % seed return is what keeps the paint market worthwhile. Which is why they did it in the first place, since it was an exo item

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I have seen withering work in other games but the difference is that you get like 5x the seeds back. Farming is also used differently there. It provides basic resources like food and some crafting materials.
When you fail to harvest there you still lose the time of one farming cycle but only little time for gathering the seeds as they are easy to multiply. You can also simply start with very little seeds.