Bump bump bump!
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Thats why I’m in favor of separating the dungeon types by key type. They could require different materials to make and some people will prefer some dungeon types over others. If they are properly balanced reward-wise, people will choose the ones they like and can complete.
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holy moly… thats just super!
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This is actually a really inventive way to it. One thing that isn’t really explained to me however is how you would, in your proposed system, actually obtain the dungeon keys to begin with?
Perhaps the limiting factor for Dungeons could relate to how the keys are obtained rather than an arbitrary cooldown?
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Well, my original idea was that they would be crafted, perhaps with their own bench or with another bench (maybe the centraforge). You could have it so that you forge a basic key and then use the centraforge to ehance it with the type of dungeon and the group type.
Personally, I think it would be cool if it was its own bench with its own mechanics, but that would potentially increase the difficulty of implementing it so putting it on an existing bench makes some sense.
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I like the idea of making the keys a bit like forging. Different dungeon traits instead of boons. Maybe rewards instead of boons and more difficulty instead of defects (and then have quirks that’d be fun. Have a bouncy dungeon or something) and make it more balanced so no matter what you’ll get both defects and boons (quirks maybe optional to boost boon and defect bonuses). So there’s a sense of controllable randomness like with forging but a bit less controlled.
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brilliant idea
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A cooldown is definitely necessary but maybe something like other MMOs. The first completion each day gives the best reward. Subsequent completes will still give rewards but at a lesser amount. That one completion per day could also apply to each tier. So 1 max reward per day for a T6, one max reward per day for a T5, etc
To stay on track with this being a community oriented game lets avoid the dungeon finder tool. But we definitely would need some type of in game guild or community chat system to make things easier to organize. We have discord for now i guess but as a ps4 player i never really keep that open while i play.
Great thought out idea btw
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Ok so forging a dungeon instance sounds cool as hell! But the problem is im sure the balance in that would be difficult.
So maybe even just having monsters have a chance to drop them like trophies, and whichever type you get specifies dungeon difficulty
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Another idea for dungeon keys
Portal conduits spawn randomly in the worlds. Break these to loot them. Similar to surface world resources but more rare. These random spawns have better loot than craftable dungeon tokens and would encourage and reward exploring the worlds. Possibly leading to more footfall for those random builds out in the wilderness in the process.
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This is solid too, maybe also make them a rare drop from high tier meteorites too?
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The only issue I have with this idea, is that it’s too MMORPG, and not Sandbox Creative.
Instead of A, using Portals, and B, having the Devs make it random. How about the PLAYERS build the Dungeon Areas?
Not just Dungeons, but other Challenages too. Puzzles, Jumping/Platforming, Finding Secrets, Mazes. Not just have it be Combat Focus, but CREAVTIVE Focus based on many designs. And have the Creators of the Dungeons fund the rewards, or have the rewards based off different factors.
City of Heroes, for example, allowed players to build their own quests and levels for the players. Allowing them to pick the look, how it’s shaped and design, how complicatedly long or simple and short it was, what enemies spawned, how high or low level the enemies were, even what skills and abilities the mid bosses and final bosses had. And at the end, had the reward based on all those factors. How long it was, how many enemies, their level compared to yours, and so on.
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@Jirodyne This idea is good don’t get me wrong here. But neverwinter, a game I used to play has this exact thing and sure there are a handfull of players that did this very well. But that whole system of player made quests/dungeons got flooded with poorly made, exploitive, vulgar or offensive ones that even the devs of that game quit trying to sort and sift through them all.
Its a good idea on paper it just doesn’t work when put to the test with real people.
Edit Idk why it put your name mid sentence
That is true, with only 2 exceptions. The first, the idea to have players create it, mean that the players have to literally BUILD the areas themselves, including where the thing actually will be situation in the world, using Plots like every other plot in the game, just with special abilities. So if the game is ‘Flooded’ with them, then most of those will be in locations people arely visit, and there is the in game report tool which would get the place looked at and the creator punished.
Secondly, is that Neverwinter Online is a Free to Play. If someone trolls and gets banned, they can literally generate a hundred more free emails to create a hundred more free accounts within minutes and redo it forever. But Boundless costs $40, not many trolls that get banned are going to be able to fork over $40 again and again and again. Especially for such an obscoure game that Russian Hackers probably haven’t cracked and stolen any accounts to sell to hackers and trolls.
We are also looking at cryptic studios owned by perfect world. They have 200 plus devs just devoted to neverwinter, compared to WS (not sure exactly how many) with much less then that. They are already having a hard enough time with just the reports they get since the report option being put into effect. I just don’t think it would be possible for WS to keep up.
Also with having to add another object (plot with special attributes) would be just another strain on the servers, and other resources.
These things can get out of hand so I just want to state I’m not arguing or saying it CANT happen. Just my opinion on why I think the devs would shy from this.
I really do like the idea though @Jirodyne
I should hire you to write my GDD kek
my problem with instanced dungeons is that people will just grind 24/7 on those isolated instances and the main cities/portals in the main worlds will feel empty.
this happened in Albion Online and it’s sad to see empty cities in a mmo while everyone is in their own mini-world.
maybe they can just make the modular blocks/items for dungeons and let the players make their own dungeons with a sort of ‘spawn creeps portal’.
that will bring unlimited creativity potential to the players and i’m sure even some mods will born from that.
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@Jirodyne I can agree with player-made dungeons and jumping puzzles. This is something I’ve talked about with a few members of Forgemasters and I believe at least one is going to be created. We’ve talked a bit about charging for entry, making a prize pool, things like that. Those sorts of creations are only natural for the “economy game” and have a place, kind of similar to carnival games where t hey can be curated and run by players, but only with the current resources in the game.
The thing about player-made game content dungeons is that when you give players that kind of choice, they also get to choose the reward. I don’t mean in the way we see rewards right now, I mean things like the “dungeon” is a pit that’s filled with 1000 elite roadrunners and you just go to town. One problem we saw with City of Heroes was that people made uberdungeons like this that invalidated a lot of other content. Even if you properly scale the reward based on the difficulty, the amount of cheese available for this sort of system is immense. That’s why I’m in favor of curated dungeons that provide similar resources to other activities so they are “a new way to play” rather than “a thing you have to do”
@shap3d I agree, people would just constantly grind them and there would be no reason to do anything else. That’s why I think the dungeon keys and possible cooldown mechanic are important, they can have a resource cost that make the dungeons more balanced reward-wise (you end up trading the “creation” resources for the “reward” resources, effectively from an economic standpoint).
The cooldown mechanic isn’t the best solution for sure, but here’s another option for you: If you do a corrosive dungeon, you become “attuned” to corrosive worlds and dungeons. The more often you do corrosive dungeons, the more attuned you become. This is bad, as you become more attuned, you become weaker against those enemies and they will become harder and harder until you’re simply unable to damage the related monsters. Attunement is cleared over time, and can be sped up by doing dungeons or existing on a planet of a different element. This encourages players to do different things and not just endlessly grind, since they will reach a breaking point where they won’t be able to continue. A soft-cap of the number of dungeons you could do per day, basically.
Also remember part of the idea for this was “Ease of implementation” so I made an effort to consider how much in the way of new features we’d have to get implemented for these things to happen.
We already have portals
We already have “loot chests”
We already have procedurally generated worlds
We already have atmospheric protection.
We already have scaling difficulty
A lot of the work for these is already done, and for a small indie dev team that’s SUPER important. Obviously some things would need to be brought in, like the portal keys, limiters on number of people through a portal, etc, but from what I’ve seen doing some hunts solo and in groups, we’re a good way there.
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Oh, and the reason I’m kind of against giving players the ability to spawn portals and stuff is kind of similar why I’m against giving players the ability to make their own dungeons. Everyone would just make kill rooms where it’s super easy to control the creatures coming out of the portals. Even if they break some of the blocks, when you have a kill room that is 5-10 blocks thick, you just have to repair it after each “summoning”
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a stacking debuff that penalizes players for grinding too much in the same dungeon
interesting
yes, i agree.
the spawn portals will ultimately convert them in gold farmers and they will destroy the economy
unless the mobs don’t drop any loot at all
or the cost to craft them is 10x the reward that they can get
like
cost: 100 oort stones
average loot: 50 oort stones
or even a cooldown
player made dungeons in a mmo will be a unique mechanic ever made afaik
if this is implemented in boundless i’m sure it will become pretty popular
why not just create a system to allow players create their own dungeon ?
like they need to prepare the rewards, and they can charge the entrance feed for people who wants to enter the dungeon.
This will become the other business type, and old player can set up the difficulty to easy mode and still drop something good to help new players. Or create a hell mode for the other old players to have more challenge.
Of course, people who wants to host the dungeon need to craft dungeon beacon, and also the dungeon block to summon monsters and boss. (Business cost)