Balance


#1

Hello everyone,

I wanted to take some time to discuss the state of game balance within Boundless, including some areas we are currently looking at and how we’ll be adjusting balance throughout the games development.

Firstly, Boundless is a released game and we’re proud to have reached that milestone, but that does not mean development is finished; for us this is just the beginning of a new phase in the games life. We’ll be working on new features, bug fixes and balance for years to come and we’re really excited to watch the game continue to grow and evolve.

Balance is an integral part of the development cycle and will be an ongoing process as we continue to add to and improve Boundless. We’ll be making changes based on a mix of data we receive from the game itself, and feedback from the community; some adjustments will make the game more difficult and others will make it easier, with the overall goal of making each element of the game just as enjoyable and rewarding as the next. This doesn’t mean we’re always going to hit the mark with every change, that’s why it’s called balance - it’s quite literally a balancing act which may require a certain amount of fine tuning to get to the right place.

With all of this in mind, we need to do a better job of communicating and discussing changes with you guys. We know some of the changes in Release 199 and 201 haven’t gone down super well with some players, and while it’s impossible to please everyone, we can at the very least give a little notice and open up a discussion with everyone about some of our plans.

So starting here, we want to let you guys know a little bit about some of the main balance issues we’ve identified with your help:

  • Silver and Gold tools are currently not worth the investment, and many people stick to Iron.
  • Titanium tools are difficult to make, and do not stack up against Gem versions.
  • Bomb mining effectiveness was reduced, and is closer to where it should be, but we may have gone too far the other way. We’re looking at stepping back in the balance, but in such a way as to not make it OP again.
  • Diamond tools and weapons are perceived to be better than the other gem types. We are looking at how to bring the others in-line.
  • Higher level meteorites are not worth the risk and time investment compared to doing more lower level meteorites.

We’re not certain how or when we will address these issues, but they are being discussed within the studio at the moment and we hope to be including fixes within the next few releases.

So while we are in the process of working out exactly what to do with these balance issues, we wanted to throw it to you guys and see what you think as well.


Any bomb miners still out there? Share techniques?
#2

I agree on this, but please don’t forget that solo players needs oort stones too. Playing in group must be an option not an imposition.


#3

I think as it comes to the Gold and Silver tools it is mainly because Iron is far easier to get and works very well forged or not with the right skills chosen.

Titanium tools are in the same department that it can be harder for newer players or not so advanced players to get as titanium tools require Any precious alloy and titanium which makes sense as its a higher tier tool, but goes down to the fact that Gold and Silver requires you almost exlusively to mine on a T5 or T6 planet to get enough to make it worthwhile (maybe increase the amount of gold / silver on T4 planet would help?

Diamond tools are only Percieved as a better gem tool as it is far easier to get diamond than any other gem and the main focus for most in the beginning is diamond as you need that for the Workbench power to get any other power going leaving people with excess amounts of diamond in the beginning and making most people use that as a “cheaper” Gem tool (kinda like Iron instead of gold and silver)


#4

No XP from breaking blocks was already a big nerf for these. I do hope you guys strongly consider reverting to when bombs have zero XP but left ores untouched.

Edit: or something that could be forge on to it.


#5

Generally speaking, this is a result of 2 things

  • Silver and gold tools both have less durability than iron
  • Silver and gold are both much, MUCH harder to find compared to iron.

I never understood why the sudden jump in scarity from iron to silver. I understand silver is supposed to be rare, but on planets like Till, where such resources are supposed to be more common, still feels as rare as titanium. I really believe silver should have its spawn rate massively increased on higher tier worlds.

This is because Diamond tools do more damage per hit, meaning diamond tools will take less hits to break blocks or kill creatures, which means diamond tools will, as a result, last longer.

Who wants swift gem tools if they break twice as fast?


#6

Main reason I didn’t bother much with gold hammers (did for a while and then checked the numbers and tried again after the latest change) on a tier 6 world, iron hammer breaks blocks in 3 hits on damage skilled miner build, while gold hammers brake it is 2 - 3 hits depending on if I get a crit in those 3 hits.

That doesn’t make for much of a difference compared to how much more resource intensive gold hammers are. Silver hammers are definite not worth while in my opinion, since sure the swing faster but also break faster.

Plus the scarcity of silver compared to gold or even iron. Main issue I see for silver is their broad spawn band on planets on top of the low spawn rate. It is easier for me to tunnel mine for gold and for silver. So i might as well do that. And I can normally find gold anyway when going mining for titanium, so I get two resources in one mining trip, compared to go out for silver and then titanium or gold.

The only thing I use silver for is on my lumberjack toon, since I don’t need damage on low tier worlds just speed, but will swap to titanium axes as well, cause one hitting the trunks is still better than 2 fast hits.


#7

You have to take into consideration few things.

a.) If I need to to hit N times block with gem A, and N*2 with gem B, then gem A will last for X blocks, but gem B only for X/2. So hypothetically i can mine 2 times more gems, and other resources with gem tool A. Speed of the tool is often secondary stat at best. Most players care how for how many blocks will tool last, and not how fast they can mine. And almost no one uses gem tools for lower tier worlds, where even the swift ones can one hit blocks.

b.) Many players (i believe, but have no proof) care what other things do they mine when they mine gems. If I can get titanium, gold, hard and medium coal when mining diamonds, and only some silver, soft coal, and some fossils maybe when I mine for emeralds… how do you think, what would I prefer and do mine? :wink: A hint: it start with D and ends with iamonds.


#8

I am missing the balance concern related to flankers force boon lv5. I believe it is strange that the maximum level boon of the AoE hammer effect is perceived as the worst to have?


#9

I really don’t know how come you guys feel the bomb mining now is close to the balance point…
If you guys realize that the best hammer mining in current meta you can get even more gems than before lol
It just the other bomb mining you will get tons of rocks, but also you will still get exp + a lot more Fragments + opal.

If you compare the result i got from bomb mining will be 1 hour 360 - 500 gems.
now with best hammer i can forge i can get the same number or even more.

As result, the grinding rate for people can forge the best hammer now are similar to people who can forge the second best bomb before ( i agree the 7m area bomb is way too over power)

So, please i really tired of removing rocks from my inventory, its really annoying, and a lot of rocks drop really hurt my eyes.


#10

Sometimes it’s better to craft titanium tools as they are more efficient on low tier planets.

Diamond tools are OP because of their damage.

Swift tools are not worth it because they have low damage and the same durability.

If diamond tool with 1900dmg has 2000durability, then amethyst tool with 900dmg should have 4000durability.

I’m okay with bombs destroying 75% resources. Believe me, the amount of exp you could earn from crafting rocks->stones is insane. With bomb mining you get only resources.


#11

I’m not sure how (that’s for you guys to figure out), but the progression through the tools/ores needs to be smoothed out a lot more. Wood->Stone->Copper->Iron is fine… once people hit iron, people become stuck for what seems like an eternity.


#12

The main reason for this is the way armor currently operates. I don’t know if it makes more sense to adjust the way armor is calculated or the stats on the weapons and tools, but as long as armor works the way it does, damage will always be more important than speed. I think you should look at tier 5 and 6 blocks and balance items so fast tools are slightly more effective on tier 5 worlds, and heavy tools are slightly more effective on tier 6 worlds. The major factors taken in to account should be blocks broken/second and blocks broken/durability.

It would also be nice for there to me more and better defined niches for each type. It is clear that there is already the beginnings of this, but each tool should have a clear optimum use case or build. Some that might be nice but are not yet included would be tools that trade effectiveness for durability and one that is less effective than than the others but cheaper/easier to craft.

Also it should be carefully considered what the effects of the various forged effects are, because at the highest level it is the forged gear that should be balanced, not the base gear. You could spend a lot of time balancing the base tools, but if one has a combination of forge effects that make it clearly best all that balancing will be for naught. To me, it would be ideal if there were different tools that synergized better with different forge effects (aside from AoE which is so clearly the most important forge effect that it needs to work pretty much equally well with all tools).


#13

wood->stone is a 2 minute progression after which i NEVER looked back XD


#14

Hello to all,

Silver and gold its not only to do tools and weapons.
Therefore, still be important to the game.
:grinning:


#15

Lol same… but it makes sense too. Stone might be a few hours or a day to some folks. Copper… maybe another few hours or a day. Iron? Same… but to go above Iron? WEEKS lol


#16

@olliepurkiss Thoughts on two subjects specifically:

  1. Gem tool balance – The problem is that gem tools will always be valued based on the damage they can output per unit of labor to create them, so if you balance their durability based on their total damage output over the life of the tool, you’ll be a LOT closer to having relatively equivalent tools.

  2. Bomb mining – Had you considered adding a forging buff that allows the bombs to do more damage to the rock than the ore?

Appreciate that you’re thinking about these things. Frankly I don’t see how you’re going to make silver/gold/titanium tools effective, but I certainly wish you the best on all fronts.


#17

I have a question for the people talking about relative damage with the gem tools.

If tool A does 1000 damage and tool B does 2000 damage, would people pick tool A if it had twice (or slightly more than twice) the durability of tool B? Will players still use the tool that will get the job done faster?

edit: assuming effort to get the materials to make the tools are the same.


#18

Apparently level 5 is supposed to “balance” it? I’m not sure why they thought it was a good idea. It should be a separate Quirk.


#19

Depend on how much you need to damage a block. If block need 1500, then a 2000 dmg tool will be probably better because it will do job faster. On the other hand if the 1000 dmg tool can crit for more than 1500 it will be better, because can last longer. But if block needs 1000 or 3000, then using 2000 dmg tool will be a waste IMHO, unless i have as easy access to the material the tool is made, then the more damage the better. But when I have to worry if I’m able to craft next tool when this one will be destroyed, then I think about all I written above.


#20

fair enough. My point in asking is what would make the gem tools balanced? If damage is favored over tool speed, then the developers changing tool speed might not have the effect they want. If it is a balance between durability and damage, then maybe we can suggest they focus there.

to your point about the block heath (not sure what else to call it). So maybe with the higher tier planets that are not around yet, of they tweak the damage on say a topaz hammer to be able to one hit versus a diamond two hitting with relatively equal durability, the players might choose a different tool for different planets. (to be most efficient)