In addition to what @Vastar said, your solution would not work because world regen would wipe your assets if they aren’t protected by a beacon.
not sure what world regen is exactly. i saw it mentioned in a post with a neat gif of a progressively constructed mountain or something
That gif didn’t show what happened before. That mountain originally existed. Maybe not in the EXACT same way for every block, but close enough. Then the dev DELETED the whole thing. And the gif showed the mountain being built up again. World regen does exactly what it says. It regenerates the world. So if you go to a cave and dig some gems up, those gems will eventually come back (but not to the exact same spot). It means trees will regrow too. So you don’t have to always go further and further from “home” to find resources as the game ages.
… it will be slow, begining after half a day or even longer after the last player was there and then rebuild the world … so we will have no flying treetops, 1-block-piles and dropholes in the ground … at least not in the big scale like on public Minecraft servers
I don’t think it’s mentioned yet:
A problem with expiring Beacons generates, when people are by circumstances not able to log into the game.
I can understand then, if someone says 1-2 month time for decay is too short.
A solution could be (as I already mentioned in the other topic): people can answer the notification email with “Please freeze my account within current status for x (3 - 6) month”. The first time he logs in again he starts from the status when he sent this email. The “freeze status” should be canceled then of course, so noone could abuse the system, if there is a need to collect something like fuel. Like this noone has to worry, if he cannot enter and somehow refuel his beacons. People are usually always able to read/answer an email. If not, then you definetly have serious other problems then the status of a computer game…
Second:
Maybe using the word tools here are not right. It could be change to “doing actions”. Meaning, no matter if I just move on the map, mine, sell items, craft something. Everything that needs kind of player activity could create “activity fuel” for your Beacons. Like this noone has to do certain things. He just have to be inside the game and do the stuff he likes to (standing arround should not be rewarded, else someone could just log into the game without really being active).
Of course each action should get depending on time you need for it or ressources u use up, different credibility.
i.e mining a block should give same as running 20 blocks far. This balancing factors are already mentioned.
Con: Easy to abuse with dummy accounts to allow for different builds (aesthetic, infrastructure) to last forever.
Con: Incredibly hard to program and code, I think it’d be quite a resource (computer-wise) drain as well. Also, players could argue that them “standing around” like in their house or shop is roleplaying and shouldn’t be punished for engaging the game the way they want to.
Essentially, if I’m understanding this right, your argument here is that where a player gets Coins, they should also get Fuel? But I’ve already made the suggestion that Coins can be used as Fuel. I think that’d be far easier to program and for everyone to keep track of.
Well, didn’t say it’s easy to program. But it’s the nicest way for kind of activity check in my opinion.
For a start lets ignore that the developers are humans and that engines only can do so much. Focus on gameplay, the developers can sort out all the solutions that will take too much work or which will slow the game too much.
Still seems too punishing to very casual players then, imo. Regardless, @Heurazio can add it to this list!
Perhaps when a user has been given sufficient notice that his beacon is about to expire, you could give an in-game notification to nearby players. That way they can scout the area and decide if they want to save the area in the beacon. If they do, maybe they could place a beacon next to the existing beacon to “link” the two. And if the player doesn’t come back to claim it, then it becomes absorbed by the player who linked it.
That way, cool landmarks could be saved by the community, but bad buildings would disappear.
I personally am not sure how I feel about a broadcast. It requires you to be on at a certain time and it’s weird, lore-wise, for some unspoken voice to say “hey, this beacon is about to expire”. I do agree, however, that there needs to be an interface so that even people who don’t own the beacon can see how much time is left. This encourages the explorer playstyle to roam, check on beacons, take notes/make maps of areas, etc.
Ah, yes. Good point. Perhaps just a tooltip that appears when a user looks at a beacon. That would indeed encourage exploration.
I thought about it a bit more. And I don’t think that it’s hard to programn at all.
You just need to measure time, what each action absorbs and rate it.
You can even limit the number of actions you rate to some core actions:
mining, running, attacking / killing a monster, buying / selling items, crafting something, placing a block.
Really don’t think it’s hard to handle at all.
Noone just “stands around” when they play. They chat, craft or sell something (things you can do standing). But you cannot tell me, someone is actively playing, by standing around.
Edit: sry, discussion. I get a minus point for this xD
Exactly. Each action. Even if you limited it to core things, some will be easier than others. So balancing, especially once progression is taken into account, would take weeks, if not months, to design and get perfect such that people don’t feel like they need to take a certain profession to acquire fuel faster.
You cannot tell someone how to play. Especially in a sandbox game. I know I have no intention of “standing around” but that doesn’t mean we should restrict that type of gameplay.
I already have about 50 points (DKP) minus (ah, jokes). I’m just shrugging 'em off left and right so I don’t drown in them.
Is there a way we can vote on some of these permanent areas of the map? Hear me out in this I believe small-medium size built areas should be destroyed or reclaimed back from the generator but huge projects like a giant castle should have some sort of option like maybe a voting poll for the players to decide whether or not it should stay or go. There are some great monuments built by players and it’s sad to see some of those gone only just to be remembered by youtube videos or images on google search. It will be great for players too to be inspired by other people’s creations to see it first hand in person(as the player character). Plus it will be great reference points to use in the game to get to a location just by having those structures stand out in open (the village is near the pac-man eating the glowing orbs not by the ghosts chasing the pac man, got it john?)
Everthing above this line should be added to the Lists.
If you appreciate my work collecting everything please like my two top posts
I’ve split up a tangible concept #1 for semi-permanent beacons. As far as i understand this conversation correct, this is a concept which the most of us agree (in regards to beacon expiration)
@Clexarews: Yes, my rules #2 and #3 influence each other (That there will be discussions in this regard, I’ve already thought of when creating them). But it was the only possibility which I could think off, that does not harm the conversation (thinking process). As you said correct:
I’m really happy how this topic grows and about the ideas we’ve come up with.
@Heurazio, thank you for showing this initiative. It is logically a very important subject for the community.
I would like to quote the idea from the other topic, because that is what my pros and cons are based on.
Dear Devs, and Boundless Online community,
Perhaps the problem we all face is this: there is a mixture of people using beacons to their advantage. I believe these two people cannot be looking at the beacon for an allround solution. Not the way it functions now. The people using beacons currently consist of two main playergroups (and some minor experimentalists):
1) protecting the structures and buildings, which are necessary for the game to develop.
2) claiming resources which is necessary for the player to develop.
I’d like to rather see these two different aspects get two different types of fuel to upkeep the beacons. Adding different beacon stats and characteristics to suit the needs of the player.
The field-type:
- is cheaper to construct,
- is smaller in size
- can (with proper training) be constructed on multiple locations
- is weaker, so it lasts about a day or two (does not allow fuel-stacking to pay in advance)
- still allows others to take actions inside it, giving them a time-delay that is significant
- is attackable with special siege equipment that allows other players to strip block by block
- it’s fuel is transferable to other players (using currency // blocks).
The barrier-type:
- is relatively expensive to construct, cheaper per block if they are larger
- can be huge relative to the field-type,
- is stronger, so it lasts about a month without fuel (allows fuel stacking to ‘pay in advance’)
- prevents the other player from deconstructing inside it
- is not attackable (unless fuel reaches 0), at fuel 0 it will become attackable with special siege equipment that allows players to strip block by block
- it’s fuel is transferable to other players (using currency // blocks).
I know that what you asked is not another tool to use, but in the end the world is 'possible with white and black, life and death. Creation and Destruction.
Pros for temporary beacons
-
Gives the game a PvP aspect.
Making ‘salvager’ or ‘siege’ a subclass of sorts. So it creates jobs: people will start hunting ‘ghost-beacons’ (from solo players), and/or entire guilds can start sieges to economically drain one another. -
Won’t allow the world to become saturated with beacons.
When beacons decay there will be people dedicated to salvaging preventing the world to become cluttered with land nobody can touch. -
Risk vs. Reward (basic game mechanics) will remain in tact.
If it’s easily done, then there shouldn’t be too much of a reward to doing it. If it’s harder to do, it’ll need to naturally be more rewarding. If it’s ‘easy’ to claim space in a server, and then do nothing with it, then what is the value of the server? And so how much value does the game have for us players in the long run (6 months)? If you catch my drift. -
A natural answer to risk is created
You will see mercenary or defensive guilds emerge, offering services to protect your beacons against threats. A natural way to deal with risk: security and prevention. -
Allows for even more interactions between guilds / players.
Beacons will become a thing you’ll see popping up in chat every other day or so. Be it that they are hunting fuel or are getting sieged. This allows for the neutral ‘newbie’ to become interested in joining efforts.
– EDIT: added these cons below–
Cons for temporary beacons
-
Beacons might become a first and last end-game goal at the same time.
It could on it’s own become the one and only goal people have to play the game. If the beacons aren’t scalable or resize-able and usable after a decent time-frame for new players, they will ‘find it quite dangerous’ to start their dream-build. -
@Stretchious says: “Not all players want PVP all the time.”
I think the essence of beacons in general is: ‘preventing a players actions taken in a specific area’. That has the ring of PvP to it, if you ask me. Or rather, prevention of PvP. Regardless still this can be overcome by stockpiling some fuel for the rest of the months ahead and you’re set to ‘not PvP all the time.’ So this isn’t the con to the concept. The next one however can become a consequence of this fuel-system. -
Fuelhoarding becomes a struggle for casuals
Time spent is important to the player. Together we’re going to go through a couple of balancing periods to make the fuel-system fun, economically stable and worthwhile. Because 1) Finding the right ingredients to make the fuel. 2) Production time, and 3) Remote adjustments or actually walking up to a pedestal to input the ‘gems’ that power the beacons (don’t shoot, it’s just a brainfart example), all of this takes time. This altogether shouldn’t take longer than a percentage of gametime.
Thank you, for reading.
Best regards,
Endymion
I can summarise each of the pros with the same con…
- Not all players want PVP all the time.