This Topic is in response to the devlog Topic “Beacon Persistence”.
Because the original Topic run out of control (~300 Posts in 2 days) i want to start a new Topic with a dedicated Pro-/Con list (on a more “prominet” location than post 288 of ~300) like @Thorbjorn42gbf suggested in the original topic. Furthermore i like to add a new Poll (same reasons as the list) where you can select your favorite options (this will be post #2 in this topic beacuse i can’t edit a post that contains a poll).
The Premise
The main question in the origial Topic is the question if beacons should expire after some time or if they should be permanent and forever. This question was also asked approx. 1 year ago in Survey #4 (result ~70% are for beacon expiration after some time).
Additional reading: There was also a survey 2 months ago about the new beacon system with 57 participants.
Furthermore the devs ask under which circumstances a beacon should expire and what will happen to the items contained in the beacon.
The Rules
To keep this topic clean and dry i need to make some rules (@Thorbjorn42gbf and @Havok40k can you please have look on this now and than).
- Post you opinions in a way like “I think”, “I’ve experienced”.
Don’t claim superiority or universally applicable for your argument (this hurts the intention of this collection) - Don’t start a discussion.
This should be a “collection” of opinions and view points only. - Don’t cite others opinions.
If you agree with them, like the post. If you don’t agree (or partially agree) make your own additional answer with a complete explanation (this makes the evaluation easier). - Don’t rely on numbers.
If someone names a number as an example “4 months” this is most likely not the value he really like to suggest but it’s just a placeholder so don’t argue about the number.
The List (Pro-Con)
This is the collection of players opinions about the “Beacon Persistence” Topic. I’ll add every opinion you mention to this list so it’s easy accessible for everyone without the need to read through ~300 posts (please give me some time for this - i’ve a lot other things to do at the moment).
Note: I’ll add “” marks where i need to change your text for better readability. I also try to group all arguments.
I’ll build multiple lists for the different sub-sections (that’s why it’s not a Wiki post):
- Beacons should expire or not (Pro-Con List)
- Under which circumstances should beacons expire (Collection)
- What should happen to the items contained in the beacons (Collection)
- Possible solutions to Problems (referenced collection)
Beacons should expire or should be permanent (Pro-Con)
Temporary Beacons
- Pros
- Environment
2. Would make sure that things not used will return to original state
2. Would clean up the worlds to only keep active things in play
2. Would posibly increase the overall ratio of “good” builds
2. [IN CASE OF FUEL AND SEMI-PERMANENT BEACONS]:
3. chances are high your valuable work [buldings, landmarks, monuments] will stay in tact
3. Adventurous players may possibly be able to loot build materials.
3. No natural regen without player interaction. - Playtime and dedication
2. [IN CASE OF FUEL] Encourages active play with fuel upkeep (if done right) - Player interactions
2. Allows players to easily locate active areas instead of sometimes stumbling upon ghost towns if beacons were permanent.
2. [IN CASE OF ENDER CHEST]: Encourages exploration type play if [chests] are lootable - Building
2. Would hinder the beforementioned dead city centers
- Environment
- Cons
- Playtime and dedication
2. It will be a massive setback in progression in the game.
3. Upon dying it is fairly likely that you would lose everything in your inventory that isnt equipped or isnt coin. Meaning that the majority of your progress would be stored in your house
3. It would be insanely punishing towards people who wants to come back into the game
2. It could very easily start feeling like a chore [to recharge]. - Player interactions
2. [IN CASE OF FUEL]: Due to constant upkeep it would most likely deter a lot of people to use beacons for anything that isnt strictly beneficial
2. [IN CASE OF SEMI-PERSISTENT]: Even if [a lot] people wants a monument to stay all it would take is one guy to remove the beacon. - Environment
2. Would possibly remove great landmarks left by other now inactive players
- Playtime and dedication
Permanent Beacons
- Pros
- Player interactions
2. Would encourage using beacons for a greater purpose:
3. infrastructure
3. monuments - Playtime and dedication
2. Would be more forgiving towards casual players
2. still allowing some leniencey to hardcore players
2. Returning Players
3. Would allow for returning players to continue where they left off
3. Giving more incentive to come back eventually
- Player interactions
- Cons
- Building
2. Would leave good spots taken by people who might not use it anymore
2. Would possibly result in dead city centers in cases where people make non guild cities - Environment
2. Would let half finished builds stay forever - Player interactions
2. Would potentially allow for “griefing” beacons to stay forever (in whatever way they might be)
- Building
Circumstances of beacon expiration (Collection)
- beacons could be cleared after a certain amount of time [by other players who need the space]
- Problem [mentioned in Pro-Con]: landmarks, briges, small easter eggs and so on disaperaing
What should happen to the items in the beacons (Collection) [this assumes that beacons will disappear]
- [when] beacons disappear the owner should get EVERYTHING from his beacon […]. that way it will allow for people to come back and not having lost everything while at the same time freeing up the space for those who wants to use it.
- [ADDITION]: Every item should be given back to a chest of redemption of the capital ON THE WORLD THAT YOU ARE IN.
- Ender-chest type system
- [PRO]: Encourages exploration type play if these items are lootable.
- [CON]: Someone may lose all physical item progression (but not skill progression).
- Capital banking system, unique per world, run by Central Guild
Possible Solutions to Problems
- [Solution to the “void vault”]: A “compromise” is having the top x% most valuable items or just a set list of items within the beacon be transferred to the void vault.
- [Solution for recharge]: Every action done by a player in the game recharges their beacon.
- [ADDITION]: Use coins as fuel (read #54 and [Solution for collection fuel would feel like a chore])
- [Solution for collection fuel would feel like a chore]: using Coins as the fuel, so people aren’t going out of their way to do extra fuel gathering/processing. It’s just a new coin sink outside of taxes. Could even make beacons draw automatically from your account every X amount of time so it’s not even considered extra work.
- [Solution for when you forgot to log in]: sending multiple emails when a beacon is about to expire
- [Solution easter-eggs and “monuments”]: A possible solution could also be to have the beacon decay rate being dependent on other peoples beacons in the proximity of your own. This would lead to hidden beacons in the wilderness being intact almost forever but beacons in a town, where the demand for building space is high, would vanish much faster.
- [Compromise between “looting” and “storing”]: Common mats (ores, food, usable stuff like potions or ammunition) stay in the beacon while ‘epic’ stuff like equipment, advanced weapons etc. vanish into said vault.
- [CON] Problem to figure out what is “rare” and what is not (especially buildings)
*[SOLUTION FOR ITEMS] Have the player choose what is most important to them to put inside any such vault (ender chest) [read #16]
* [CON]:
1. Would again end up in a whole “Prepare for when you plan to stop playing” scenario.
2. no looting possible
* [PROBLEM]: How would it scale? […] would it then allow you to save a percentage of items? would it be possible to cheat the system […]?
* [PRO]: Would make sure that atleast something stays for looters - [CASH-SHOP] Example: Pay x bucks to get the most valuable stuff from your old (no longer existing) beacon back
- [OPINION] looting “epic” stuff is a necessity
- [CON] Problem to figure out what is “rare” and what is not (especially buildings)
- [Solution for the ender chest “boost problem”]: all items have a set value [determined by the game] and only up to a certain value can be protected but that threshold grows as the player progresses (read #28)
- [PRO]:
- would make it alot harder to boost it just by dirt
- would allow people for some options to what they desire to keep.
- [PRO]:
- [Solution if you are not able to login]: Send a mail to the devs [or answer their warning mail] and tell them to freez your account (read #53). The “freez status” expires after the first login.
- [CON] : Easy to abuse with dummy accounts to allow for different builds (aesthetic, infrastructure) to last forever.
- [Solution for monuments]: Small buildings (beacons) will expire after some time. For big building (beacons) there will be a “player poll” (in-game) where they can vote if the building should be permanent or should be removed.
Concept #1: Semi-Persistent beacons
The beacon will run with fuel for a given time x. After this time x the beacon will remain till it’s removed by the owner or other players [-> addition to "Circumstances of beacon expiration #1]
- [PRO]:
- Will allow for looting but it isnt just a free loot but rather a choice you have to make if it is worth it
- Will allow for those who wants the spots to get them even though they have to pay a bit more
- Discourages people from taking beacons just for the sake of taking them
- Allows for things such as monuments atleast until someone destroys it or refreshes it
- Would allow for people/clans/guilds to find an abandoned city and claim it for themself for a price
- Multiple steps with various prices allows for more people to use it for the thing they want to use it for
- [CON]:
- Setting a price […] might reduce the amount of people who are willing to pay for making the game more natural again
- Could quickly become a fairly expensive procedure to clear off larger areas.
- [PROBLEM]: Would […] bemost beneficial to remove it considering there is zero downside to it
- [SOLUTIONS]: (The owner of the removed beacon receives the worth of his beacons / icons)
- Remove beacon and destroy everything inside the beacon for X price (you just want the spot)
- Remove the beacon and instantly get everything inside of the area for 2X price (you just want the items)
- Obtain the beacon and let everything stay inside of it for 3X price (so if you fall upon a sweet house you can just buy the house as it stands.)
- [SOLUTIONS]: (The owner of the removed beacon receives the worth of his beacons / icons)