Beacon Persistence

[Clexarews]

Leaving ghost towns up to admire their buildings doesn't help people in desperate need of supplies or who are looking for new places to trade with.

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

I am going to air my idea again:

What if insteadof the beacon disapearing when the time runs out they just becom possible to remove? So ghosttowns only die if other players metting them wish so but dead city centres will probably be cleared relatively fast.

[Clexarews]

This is fine with me. Encourages hermits who know they take long breaks to build a home that may be harder than average to find.

[Zouls]

If beacons will degenerate (which seems to be the preference of the majority of the community) you´ll loose the stuff inside your chests anyway. So for the inactive player there´s no difference between loosing his stuff to the world regeneration or due to other players.So as far as I´m concerned looting an abandoned beacon would be as much PvP as mining is PvE.

Maybe. To me it seems like you are saying "But A is just the same as B!" and i agree, The thing is im arguing for C) Permanent beacons and D) Getting your stuff back if you lose your beacon. So losing your stuff is for my arguments completely opposite the two ideas im arguing for.

Those "RPG Players" snip

Never said all progression. Actually very specifically said houses. problem is just that your house is equivalent to your average "bank" in other MMOS. How many other MMO's have you seen that actually deletes everything in your bank for being gone? i cant remember any. Also in your house might be things such as materials, crafting stations, extra armor, weapon, whatever. Like the average horder mentality which i think is dominant in many RPG players (oh Fallout 4, why you have so much random stuff to pick up!).

you are ready to continue the game right were you left ocne you come back.

Again. Comparing it to a bank. If you were to get everything wiped in an MMORPG bank you would still be able to go smack stuff but you might lose many many MANY hours of progress. I do not find the argument "if you know you arent going to play just put everything in your inventory". How many people do you honestly believe will do that? When you leave a game do you literally say "i dont want to play this game anymore so let me prepare for that"? Maybe you do. Personally it just kinda happens for me.

I just see a smart form of gathering ressources.

I see it as stealing resources other spent time collecting.

Why should this not happen? This is the thought of survival and the importance of being careful and think about what you take with you on your adventures. Isn't it?

I am not sure if you misunderstood me. I never questioned the fact that you should drop stuff. I was wondering if the stuff you dropped stayed for X time on the ground so you could pick it up. Or if everybody could just take whatever they want from your inventory when you die. I dont believe the first makes sense in a PVE oriented game.

But Material stuff would not bother me. It's just the way it is..

What if you had for atleast 100 hours of progress? invested in building, collecting mats, upgrading your crafting stations, Chests with rare and extra gear etc. It wouldnt bother you in the slightest to lose everything you own other than the thing you wear and have in your bag? Huh. Fair enough. I wouldnt be able to have such a calm approach to it i must admit.

[Clexarews]

Maybe. To me it seems like you are saying "But A is just the same as B!" and i agree, The thing is im arguing for C) Permanent beacons and D) Getting your stuff back if you lose your beacon. So losing your stuff is for my arguments completely opposite the two ideas im arguing for.

Vastar was just saying that, if your idea isn't implemented, lost items from Beacons will be about as much the fault of world regen as it could be the fault of other players.

How many other MMO's have you seen that actually deletes everything in your bank for being gone?

How many MMOs have you seen that are like Boundless? Where you can shape nearly every single part of the physical world? I've said this before and you ignored it because you didn't like the argument. It's still valid though. This game is not in the same genre as WoW/ESO/LOTRO/GW2/SWTOR, etc. Just because those games do something doesn't mean we will (or should, in some cases)

It wouldnt bother you in the slightest to lose everything you own other than the thing you wear and have in your bag? Huh. Fair enough. I wouldnt be able to have such a calm approach to it i must admit.

If I lost it because the boundless servers caught fire, I'd be upset. If I lost it because I didn't take some preventable action, ever after receiving not one but multiple emails telling me I should take 60 seconds from my day to log into this game, then no. It'd be my fault. Especially if I'm the sort of player some people on here admit to being where they swing between different games with multi-month gaps. Then I'd know that about myself, I'd know I had fun in Boundless and would want to save my progress for the next time I logged into it, and I'd spend the 60 seconds logging in to log in/deposit fuel/coins, etc. But that's just me. I like to plan ahead and stuff.

[Combatman12]

60 seconds over 3 months to refresh my progress, fine, but my main stuff, nothing aesthetic must stay with me, core objects should be kept, in whatever form you can make that work. Honestly not that hard...

[Heureka]

If i desperate need supplies i go out and grind for it, buy from a seller or ask a friend for help, not demolish someone else s stuff.

[Clexarews]

I'm talking about finding supplies from a populated town. How do I tell from the minimap or from a text label saying "Player's Beacon" that I see from the distance whether a beacon has seen life in the last month? How do I tell from a group? Right now, you cannot tell the different. Which means travelling merchants will waste much of their time travelling to ghost towns. And players not part of towns who are looking to get supplies on a new world will also be wasting their time.

[Combatman12]

Scaling the gradient of the beacon name from white to red depending on how active/inactive a beacon is, like percentage in smash bros.

[Clexarews]

You're right. It's not that hard. In fact, you've nailed the solution. They...

must stay with me

Stay with you. As in on your body. As in part of your inventory. No one can loot that from you while you're offline.

[Combatman12]

Honestly, I don't give a ■■■■ what you want to do. Give me a bank, make me have a larger inventory, make my oort machine teleport to oort land where it goes to a temporary inventory where i have to pay to get it back at a reduced cost. Whatever, just give me my ■■■■ when i come back.

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

Stay with you. As in on your body. As in part of your inventory. No one can loot that from you while you're offline.

Kinda hard tearing all the rare trophies out of your house every time you log out no?

[Heurazio]

Never said all progression. Actually very specifically said houses. problem is just that your house is equivalent to your average "bank" in other MMOS.

Other MMOs don't force player interaction and trading in the way B< will do it. As i said before, you can't keep your ites forever (they will break). Therefore there is no "big advantage" someone can get out of your stuff (only a limited time benefit).

I see it as stealing resources other spent time collecting.

I call it treasure hunt. It's a thing a lot of people do in real live (or at least did long ago - spain vs. south-america)

What if you had for atleast 100 hours of progress? invested in building, collecting mats, upgrading your crafting stations, Chests with rare and extra gear etc.

One thing that bothers me with the complete argumentation is the unilaterally point of view. You (the guys who are for permanent beacons) only tell how bad it would be to lose your stuff to others ... but you ignore the fact that you can pick up things from others too. If you come back after 1 year and your stuff is gone you can go out and search for other "lost treasury" too. It's something like a spiral ... but it adds the need to go out and search. It'll add fun to find things and the explore ghost-cities.

If i desperate need supplies i go out and grind for it, buy from a seller or ask a friend for help, not demolish someone else s stuff.

We don't know if he'll ever come back ... i think if he'll come back 2 years later he wouldn't continue with his half-done building project TBH.

Kinda hard tearing all the rare trophies out of your house every time you log out no?

If you plan to stay offline for half a year you should do this. If you come back regular there is no need ...

[Clexarews]

You're not wrong. But if you know you're about to travel, it's a solution. Maybe not the best. Maybe not the smartest. But it addresses the problem.

Honestly, I don't give a ■■■■ what you want to do.

You must not have read Havok's post. I'm really not a fan of people cursing me out when I'm trying to discuss ideas. You have your way you want to play the wonderful game that Boundless will become. So do I. We don't have to agree. But there's no reason to curse people out on public forums.

Done with this thread again for a bit, way too hot in here for my tastes.

[KuroKuma]

How many MMOs have you seen that are like Boundless? Where you can shape nearly every single part of the physical world? I've said this before and you ignored it because you didn't like the argument. It's still valid though. This game is not in the same genre as WoW/ESO/LOTRO/GW2/SWTOR, etc. Just because those games do something doesn't mean we will (or should, in some cases)

Zouls uses other MMOs banks as analogies to represent progress which most likely will be our houses/guildhalls/shops etc. in Boundless.
Surely we don't want to copy other MMOs but we should take them for analogies to explain things we can't in other ways exactly because Boundless is so new in many fields.

And I have to agree with him. Our inventories are not big. In fact at the moment they are smaller than Minecraft inventories (if I didn't miscount) and all your progress except for exp and what you have in your brain will be in your house. I'd expect that to be at least 60% of the progress we'll make.
Losing that is as horrible as loosing all the weapons, potions, armor etc in your WoW bank.

Also most of you assume that the beacons you build in are your own. Maybe if you build in the wilderness.
But what if you build in a city founded by a guild? Don't you think the guild controls all the beacons and rents them to people who want to live in the town? If I were a guild leader I'd do it that way.
This means that if beacons were permanent and someone would quit we'd have 3 scenarios.

1. The beacon is in the wilderness.
   No Problem because nobodie wants that place anyway or has enough space next to it to use.
2. The beacon belongs to a guild.
   No Problem because the guild could just have their own rules about not logging in and rent the beacon to someone else.
3. The beacon belongs to the person which quit and is in a heavy populated area.
   This might be a problem. But all of you say people should plan ahead and safe their stuff if they might not come back for a while. So the people who build in this area should have planned ahead and organised it better so one quiting person doesn't ruin everything. For example with a guild who controls the beacons.

So for me its 2 to 1 for permanent beacons and the 3rd point doesn't even always applie.

[Vastar]

How many other MMO's have you seen that actually deletes everything in your bank for being gone?

This is neither your everyday MMORPG nor does you "everyday MMORPG bank-slots" occupy space in the game world.

I do not find the argument "if you know you arent going to play just put everything in your inventory". How many people do you honestly believe will do that?

This hugely depends on the game.
In most games you can just stop playing since it has no consequences but in games with such consequences you can definitely see people preparing for their absence (Been there, done that).
And there are definitely easy ways to safe your stuff,e.g. just ask your guild if it has a few blocks spare space in their basement for some chest so you can store some of your stuff there.
I´m officially anouncing that I´m going to found the first 'Oort Vacation Storage Vault'™ Guild as soon as not-permanent beacons get introduced

---

What if insteadof the beacon disapearing when the time runs out they just becom possible to remove?

I like that idea even more than the idea of natural regeneration

[Heurazio]

So for me its 2 to 1 for permanent beacons and the 3rd point doesn't even always applie.

You miss an other important point ... scamming and abusing. What if the guild leader kicks all his guild members and sells the town ? I'd not place anything that has a worth for me in a "shared" location. Buildings ofc ... My shop with a mimimal set of equipment too. But not my most worthy items.

Furthermore if this place is owned by a guild and if you go offline for a long time the guild will take whatever they find and keep it too. Where is the difference to vanishing beacons and lootable chests ?

[Heureka]

Easiest way to find ppl to interact with would be a overlay in minimap, where you can see other player as dots..

[KuroKuma]

You miss an other important point ... scamming and abusing. What if the guild leader kicks all his guild members and sells the town ? I'd not place anything that has a worth for me in a "shared" location. Buildings ofc ... My shop with a mimimal set of equipment too. But not my most worthy items.

First such a guild wouldn't get so big to attract merchants/crafters with such a wealth. Also you don't have to put your valuable things there if you don't want to. Surely you'd have to trust the guild. But if it's a big city with many shops and a good reputation then the chances are very low that they'd scam you.

Furthermore if this place is owned by a guild and if you go offline for a long time the guild will take whatever they find and keep it too. Where is the difference to vanishing beacons and lootable chests ?

The point is that your own beacons won't be raided.

[Clexarews]

Analogies work so long as the two things being compared remain analogous. It was my opinion that this is not the case with banks in other MMOs versus containers in boundless. There are additional details about banks that we know won't work in Boundless (shared inventory across instances, person specific, etc.). There are additional details about containers we know don't work with banks (public vs. locked, can be placed anywhere and not just found in central locations, etc.). You're welcome to feel differently, just sharing my reasoning behind saying Boundless =/= Modern AAA MMORPGs that have had years of polishing.

Our inventories are not big. In fact at the moment they are smaller than Minecraft inventories (if I didn't miscount) and all your progress except for exp and what you have in your brain will be in your house.

When you were counting did you take into effect the increased stack size in Boundless? 99 vs 64?

Things on your person or in a guild chest are not in your house. Coins are not in your house. Skills and experience are not in your house? I'm not sure what a brain is in this context. If you mean skills, pretty sure that's going to be bound to your character, not items you place down.

As for guild beacons, we have 0 information about them so it's hard to include them in this discussion. But @Heurazio makes some excellent points. Also to be considered is what happens if the guild is multiple hundreds of players large. Doubting any one person or entity can house all of them. You could propose that the guild gets more plots with more members, but that's how Towny in minecraft works (speaking of analogies) and it's WAY easy to use to abuse smaller groups.

Easiest way to find ppl to interact with would be a overlay in minimap, where you can see other player as dots..

And if they're offline? That's what we have plinths for.

Surely you'd have to trust the guild. But if it's a big city with many shops and a good reputation then the chances are very low that they'd scam you.

You don't have to trust anyone...it takes me months to trust people I game with that I don't know in real life, especially on Minecraft servers or in raiding environments on WoW/ESO. Careful of assuming how people play. Assuming guild beacons/plots allow for them to house all of their members, I personally plan to use my allocated space to build a portal to my own beacon outside of the guild where all my valuables are kept. Step 1 to keeping things you don't want to lose is to not give them to someone else. Which is what @Heurazio is saying.

The point is that your own beacons won't be raided.

So you don't have to craft your own beacon. But your stuff is taken anyway. And you're ok with this so long as a beacon owned by you isn't affected?