At 2.5 months, data is saved. I get an email. I login to dud. I choose to let central guild take my beacon. I harvest the blocks before regen works (since I’m presumably logging into where my beacon was). I place beacon back where it was and restore data save.
Yes, definitely fine tuning needed on that idea. And it seems pretty complex. Which is not ideal during this stage of pre 1.0.
We have to remember that whatever idea we may (doubtfully) come to agree upon needs to be a programmable one.
Personally still digging @Thorbjorn42gbf’s idea where after X time beacons can be removed by anyone but until then they still hold off regen (allowing easter eggs to remain unless someone removes them (which provides no resource advantage)). Or my 3-stage beacon approach which is actually basically the same thing now that I think about it, only eventually the beacon stops. I like his better since it lets cool builds/easter eggs continue if people want them to.
I’d accounted for at least some of the back lash from that
… so it would still be subject to at least 2 weeks of regen no matter what.
I’m not sure if the ability for anyone to remove beacons is a good idea… it’s based on the assumption that people will be considerate to others desires for a beacon to remain. It’s a little too open to griefers I think, for my liking anyway.
True enough … it’s one of the reasons I originally opted for just refreshing a beacon at login and not fuel, as I would assume that there is already functionality for recording the last login time of a player.
I was just exploring other avenues with my idea that would try and address as many of the ideas/requirements as possible, that others are putting their vote behind.
My mistake, I didn’t read “closed” with the regen process after 2.5 mo.
Yes. But many of us are in the camp where we want to be able to loot the holdings of non-active players. Without more information on the explorer profession it seems like this would tie in rather nicely to it. I wouldn’t say this is griefing if it’s going to happen anyway with regen. I just think it’s scavenging. And the reasons we want to do this have been discussed over and over in this thread so I won’t go into a circular argument here. I just don’t think those wanting to scavenge from vaults will be the same ones who want to destroy a smiley face made out of dirt in a cave. Getting rid of that would be griefing.
First of all, I really get why Zouls doesn’t like to discuss with you. It’s infuriating how much logic you lack. But I’ll try to explain it to you one more time.
Since I said we can exclude the argument and you just made an argument why we should exclude it. I don’t see a problem here. It just doesn’t do anything for the conversation when you add these sentences to it.
It was me who made the premise. [quote=“KuroKuma, post:236, topic:4285”]
The beacon belongs to a guild.No Problem because the guild could just have their own rules about not logging in and rent the beacon to someone else.
[/quote]
Then the discussion came up about trust. NO, you don’t HAVE to trust someone IN GENERAL. But IF you want to build in a GUILD BEACON. Then you HAVE, yes, HAVE, necessarily, HAVE to trust the owner of the Beacon. Because it is NOT your Beacon.
And again, I don’t know from where you take the idea that a guild has to house all his members inside the guild beacons. It’s only about space not members. Ok? You have a town. Physically made up of houses. Not members. Why is this important? Because we rent the space and not the members.
This also means I don’t have to make any assumptions about how many beacons a guild gets because the town would just reflect that in it’s size.
Yea… that is ok if you want to safe 3465 blocks of the same group. But valuable items will most likely either be tools which probably won’t stack and different blocks which means the maximum block count isn’t really relevant. Just saying is all.
First of all, this is a written forum, you shouldn’t recall. You should quote.
Second, I didn’t say that either.
I don’t see the words good or pick at all do you?
Also it’s just as easy in WoW to punch some mobs with your fist and gather basic gear. I’d argue it’s even easier because the level gap is much higher, the drop rates might be better and you’ll find mobs everywhere.
You might want to check who brought guild chests to the table.
As for guild beacons. I think they are confirmed for now. So I can use them without assumption. I’ll search the dev post about them.
There it is. Already about 2+ months old but the last I found.
Please refrain from reading into my stuff. I say what I mean and mean what I say. Nothing more nothing less.
I said game external contacts. This includes TS, Skype, Twitter, FB, Forums, Myspace etc. Choose your favorite.
Which in turn means you can make friends ingame, not know them in RL and still have the almost 0% chance of them quiting without being able to reach them.
Also people who just happen to settle besides you are not friends. They are strangers who happen to settle besides you.
Which is why any of the settlements at the moment won’t hold as a counter example either way.
The HAVE part is clarified above already.
Well then it’s a logical error introduced by poor writting.
Either way. Since I’d have the choice of having my own private beacon which is permanent and/or renting a guild beacon where my stuff isn’t safe. I’d be ok with it. Because my most precious stuff is safe at home. Most likely forever.
I’d be especially ok with it if I trust the guild because that means I support something I like doesn’t it? And maybe the guilds just store your stuff for an additional time period if they are really generous.
Trust is the only way of dealing with it when you leave valuable stuff or any stuff in another beacon. That’s nothing you can argue about unless they implement any control feature for the renting/collaborating party.
You’re way of handling this situation is a careful approach but doesn’t have anything to do with it if trust is the only solution. Because you don’t have your valuable stuff in your beacon.
And please if you want to answer this. Make it logical and concise. Quote and proof. Don’t just ramble about without even checking where the discussion came from.
Because it’s possible without losing anything good from the game. That’s why. Why should/shouldn’t you isn’t an argument. That’s why you should/shouldn’t IS an argument.
You can also go 1 or 2 worlds back without loosing anything to learn the new rules/features.
Same goes for the lost skill.
Just because you won’t store anything worthy in your beacons doesn’t mean others won’t.
I understand that you want to make guesses based on your own playstyle but that’s not how it works.
The second part of this quote doesn’t have anything to do with items.
Why shouldn’t we bind ourselves to strong to items? Especially in a game with such an abundance of different and hopefully rare items? There is no reason.
TES is also not a good comparision because I can’t remember something I would have wanted to safe from any chest except for the gear I’m already wearing.
But in Boundless it will be different. You’ll have machines, different tools, weapons, armor for different occasions, Blocks which are valuable and decorative. Maybe even special event items.
Those won’t all fit into your inventory. No 30 slots are NOT sufficient believe me.
No the premise was that you want to build inside of a city where all beacons are controlled by a guild. I never assumed all cities are controlled by guilds or that this would be the normal situation.
That’s what I assumed. Not cities in general but planned cities. And not always but mainly. Huge distinction. Since I or you don’t know how the planned/nonplanned citie ratio will be.
But we can make assumptions about who will be able to plan a whole town. Guilds or relatively big friend circles which are almost guilds too since guilds are also friend groups.
For these cases I would propose some kind of middle way. Where a beacon in the wilderness is practically permanent and a beacon in a crowded place has a lifespan.
You might be able to do that with a function that calculates the rate at which a beacon decays with the total count of beacons from other people around it. Would need polish but is a solution I could get behind.
No, I mean he’s a collaborator. So the beacon always belongs to the guild.
Since you’re not able to read through a post and then group your answers and quotes I’ll just answer the rest of them about guild cities here.
So my idea of how a guild would best manage a town is as follows:
The guild owns all the beacons in the town. Some are reserved for guild builds like a guild hall/guild bank whatever a guild needs in the future.
The rest of the beacons are up for rent. You asked if I want a rent system ingame. I’m relatively neutral to that idea but it’s already on the Boundless Homepage that you can charge people for traversing your beacon or entering your Space Zoo. So I’d say you can use that system for rent too. And if not then it’s not a big step to a rent system.
And since you asked about my spirit. There is none. Just cold rationale. I simply mentioned that we shouldn’t be confined by the realworld limitations.
Rent is also not a mistake unless you’re a freeloader. (And before you feel offended, you doesn’t mean you in person but you in general)
It adds to the topic the 3 cases that can happen as explained in detail one of the above posts.
You can only judge a situation if you know which cases can happen. And a guild city is one of them even if you don’t want to believe that.
Also no abstraction happened in the process of guild cities.
First of all, this assumes a system where the skill trees are locked and that is not final.
And no, your supply chain is worth nothing except for the cost of your machines. What IS worth something are the items. Especially because they break.
If you leave the game and return. Then you have 99 steel swords which are worth something. But you lost the supply chain which in itself isn’t worth anything. The worth of your supply chain only manifests in what you can sell at the end and what you sell are the items you produce.
I don’t offer a solution because this answer wasn’t about offering a solution but clarifying what I meant. And because of that it’s also not avoiding anything.
To raid also means to steal from; loot: Example: a worry that the investment fund is being raided.
So they don’t have to gang rape me as you wrote so nonchalant but they could also just take my investment as even the example suggests. Said investment would be mainly my gear and my house. The gear on my body is safe but my house isn’t so they raid my house or investment.
But some people don’t want to start fresh when they come back. As far as this thread goes it seems (we’d need a pole to clarify that) that the majority doesn’t want to start fresh either or search for other peoples houses to do the same to them.
Well since people seem to turn the “discussion” into stale , if I may be blunt(don’t mind if I do), arguing for and against permanent beacons and if you should loose your items or not, latter quite off topic as the topic is beacon persistence(taken in account the size that arguing got to).
So I’d like to point the discussion bit back to the topic.
As a solution and a golden middle way between permanent and temporary beacons, I’d like to suggest ‘home beacon control block’
Players can craft only one of this type beacon control block and it would be a permanent beacon. I also imagined that within the home beacon control block could be integrated with the sort of ender chest that @Clexarews mentioned before.
Perhaps the chest feature can be accessed from any home beacon control block, so you don’t have to travel back to your home if you need to access your storage.
As for this type of beacons size, I think 16x16x16 would be proper size, I base this to the house building contest that was held some time ago, which yielded also sort of fancy and efficient houses in the said dimensions.
The beacon block can be moved if you wish to relocate your home but it cannot be expanded with additional plots.
As for when players can craft a home beacon control block, if we have distinguishable game stages, I’d say it should be possible at mid game or end game, if you would rather have it to be sort of achievement for reaching the top so to say.
Actually it is completely on topic. Since it is the consequence of having temporary beacons. Its an argument for being against temporary beacons, quite simply. How do you plan to argue anything if you claim that the consequences and arguments for either side is “off topic”? Do you just want to say “i want permanent beacons and i dont need to make any arguments for it”?
Alright. off with the kiddie gloves. i tried to ignore it but since he keeps doing it i need to point it out.
the discussion turned into hell cause of the fruitcake @Clexarews. Interestingly enough instead of arguing for most things proposed he just ignores the majority of arguments or opinions and just go “Waah why do you guys not agree with me”. He will deliberately provoke people and then go to a sort of “im a victim. why you so evil!” state. If you have to provoke atleast have the decency to stand by what you said.
as proven:
I made a long post with various points and opinions countering his viewpoints
And instantly he tries to sweep all the arguments aside with a blatant claim that i have said none of his opinions matter. Which i didnt even say once.
Another post talking several ideas and opinions
Once again not even trying to look at anything i said nor counter any of my arguments, but instead just tries to sweep it away with a sort of “you are evil”
and then we have this beauty
Stop acting like a god damn child @Clexarews. You arent even worth considering anymore and looking through the recent things you said, the majority of them are completely moronic. But since you didnt have the decency to argue my opinions i will just do the same as you “Why do you attack me so much!”
First, I don’t think the discussion is stale at all.
Secondly, you might think it’s offtopic to talk about if items should perish or not but it’s not. You can’t argue about a topic without considering it’s consequences and what happens with the items is one of the consequences. The main consequence infact.
Now about your idea. It might be what we need that’s true.Although it would just reduce the problem but not solve it. There could still be plots of permanent beacons where others want to build. Especially in towns where people first settle.
So maybe a combination of a permanent home beacon and decay rate of the beacon (not it’s contents) dependent on the proximity of other peoples beacons?
Also, I know that’s just fine tuning, I don’t think a 16^3 beacon is enough for a home beacon. But that’s another topic^^
As a reply to both @Zouls and @KuroKuma about the item looting and degeneration been off topic, I meant it like for the last 30 or 50 posts since there hasn’t been any more to add to the discussion regarding the actual topic but rather if items/chests in the wilderness should degenerate and if other people should be able to loot your stuff, which were already discussed/argued to a moot point but still going on circles, of course this is my opinion, so if you don’t agree shall we leave it at that then?
I’m not sure if you read it all with thought, but let’s start that perhaps i could have phrased it so that it could be a solution and/or the golden middle way, now as for there being abandoned permanent beacons means that the players would have played for quite some time(not just for couple of the first months after release) as I said they should be acquirable at earliest in the mid game or at the end game as a sort of achievement reaching that level of the game. So I’d say that those players could be expected to return at some point anyway.
Well as I said I based it on the building contest and of course if you’d like to build huge mansion with a 100 acre garden/forest in the backyard then it is little, but since it’s a permanent beacon I think it shouldn’t be too big but enough to build a viable housing. edit: With viable I mean that for example crafter should be able to fit all the machinery he/she would use in crafting within the beacon area/in the house.
Acquiring it in mid/late game is a good point. This certainly reduces the chance of people completely quitting a pemanent beacon.
What I said would only be valid if you’d get your hands on such a permanent beacon from the get go.
And yes I also agree that the permanent beacon shouldn’t be huge but viable which we’d need to define if this idea is implemented.
I’m so close to just locking this thread. I swear I will do it if y’all don’t quit bitching and nit-picking. Nobody has said anything the least bit productive and the arguments are just going in circles for nearly a day now. If this thread devolves any further into a ■■■■-flinging fest, it’s getting locked. I think there may be no more useful data for the devs to collect from the community on this unless anybody new has an opinion they would like to share that we have not already heard?
Perhaps the ability to craft the home beacon control block could also be tied to founders skill tree so it would be available for anyone who reaches the level and requirements(certain amount skill points located into the founders tree?), so there would be choice if you’ll spend skill points for permanent non expandable beacon or some other skill that you might need more at the moment.
You know that nit-picking is exactly what we should do right? It’s what findes errors and improves concepts.
But I assume you mean nit-picking others logic. And I have to say that you are wrong. This is absolutly necessary to have a good conversation.
Nobody was flinging anything shitty. Just pointing out errors. Which may or may not be true errors. This is exactly how a discussion should be.
If people started to insult each other then that’s another thing but this here is a discussion at it’s finest.
And as you might have seen @Tuudi still had something else to contribute which was indeed productive.
In this case you don’t have any reason to lock this thread and it would be abuse of your powers to be frank.
Also if the devs think they can’t get any more data from this they’ll lock it themselves so that’s not for you to decide.
It’s 6:30 am and I am just catching up. I’ll allow the thread to follow this new direction, but another ■■■■-■■■■-post like the one from zouls or the outburst from kuma, and we’re done here.
To be fair quite a lot of the posts the last few hours have basically been people pointing out errors of peoples pointing out errors in other peoples errors.
I can’t detect any outbursts except from you and maybe Zouls but that’s tame compared to other occasions. He might need to phrase it properly but he’s right this time.
@Thorbjorn42gbf That’s true. But why should we look over errors from others if they could influence such an important topic?
Nit-picking is not a problem when both parties have the maturity and professionalism to do it without throwing tantrums, which this thread obviously lacks. It’s time to let the devs sort the hypothetical and tiny details themselves. Nit-picking details at this stage is useless. It’s entirely probable that they go with none of our ideas- then all of your raging and flinging is over nothing.
Nit-picking is never useless. But yes there were some tantrums which didn’t need to happen that’s true.
I get the feeling you mean me with “your raging” but since that can’t be (because I didn’t rage) it must be directed at all of us which is a polite way of not calling names.
And although it doesn’t seem like you know where the limits of your powers fall I hope you do it nonetheless.
But this is really going off topic now. I’d say we should return to the topic this should be about.
, if I may be blunt(don’t mind if I do), arguing for and against permanent beacons and if you should loose your items or not, latter quite off topic as the topic is beacon persistence(taken in account the size that arguing got to).