Coin Tap Revamp


#42

I wonder if there could be a set of mutual exclusive skill sets like:
5 pts, (1) make stand items 10% cheaper and request baskets pay 10% more, OR (2) give creatures, plants and blocks a rng coin drop.

Or maybe 10 pts or something…


#43

I think the best way to fix these issues, is to make a process for both that are rewarding. You can have both while not alienating either side.

For example farming.

You can either farm for resources that take time but are dependable vs gathering in the wild which is fast and immediate but not dependable.

I think if something similar is created for other resources then you will find both sides have something to work towards.

Another example future idea could be gem condensers.

Put in ingredients however complex they need to be and you get selected gems out after a period of time. Slow but dependable. Vs the natural way which is mining fast but not dependable based on others mining and regen.

If the devs look into scenarios like this then it would give side 1 an option and side 2 an option.

It would also create more machines and blocks to craft. Deeper crafting recipe possibilities and expansion of skill routes in game.

We need more two parallel but balanced ways of getting resources. One for people who have little time to play vs people who like the depth of play and the hunt.

Edit: @james for idea storming


#44

well since anyone (or any group) can run a hub if they are willing to put in the time and the effort, I doubt that we will ever just have just one network. And should we? There is no reason for the game to limit hub networks. Players can choose to use whatever network they like or the network belonging to whatever group they might choose to support. It does not mean they will all be successful or be able to pay their own way, but if this is a player driven economy then maybe that is the way it should be.


#45

Yes, i dont think one hub to rule them all is actually a good thing. They all have different aspects that they maximize and having more gives more access and higher reliability

Molav i like the direction your going. Maybe there will be other good ideas to flesh it out


#46

Tacking on to the last message I wrote. But if we had this for more resources, then we could have a ingame economy work. Because the casual players would have a way to make resources on their own if they are soloing or be part of the economy based on gathering/mining/exploring.

There wouldn’t be need for money debate because there would be a dependable way to get needed resources, but over longer period of time like farming

Edit: @james for brain storming


#47

most MMOs if you have the time you can effectively make everything but they still have good economy’s

yea for the idea to work we would need to remove FF which im all for if we better balance the way coin gets to the player it will just work out better in the long run…coin form mob drops or NPC hand ins is just way better then being forced to build FF traps.

yea and i think thats the key here the current coin system is heavly geared towards vet/hardcore players. and the minter is a prime example of it the amount of time and mats you need to craft it and fully coil it is just not possible for someone who only maybe has a hour or 2 a day or even a week that they can put into the game.

they would more than likely need to buy the coils or both the machine and coils but where do they make the money to do that? its a chicken and the egg thing here you need money to make money but the only way to really make money is to grind like a mad man, build a footfall trap or log in eveyday and do the tasks needed for the daily and weekly rewards


general post here

when i play other MMO’s it really becomes kind of apparent to be that in BL coin is almost like a end-game thing form level 1-30 you are only really makeing the coin to maintain your self unless you go full shop keep but by late mid to end game you are making more coin then you know what to do with i really think we need to balance the system more

remove footfall and spread that tap across other systems IE mob,meteors and NPC’s if done right it will not cause inflation just more even distribution of coin so player regardless of playstyle will be able to be apart of the economy


#48

People just need to stop saying remove footfall. It might be nerfed in the future but it’s never going to be removed, it’s part of the game and will stay that way. Stop waisting your breath.


#49

I’d probably eradicate coin all together.

Allow each player to set values for any number of resources, and then offer things for trade with a price of some value. Then you trade in resources to get to the desired value.

You could accrue credit with a particular store by only giving resources, and then cash it in at some point. The risk being that person could stop managing the store at some point.

The community would probably develop some standards for things. Like a gold standard or a gem standard or a coal standard or something.

Then there’d be fluctuations in those values.

But there would be NO coin earning activities.

Super easy, let’s just do it. Patch tomorrow?

:wink:


#50

You took the words right out of my mouth.
… how unsanitary!


#51

The only reasonable alternative to that, is to create centralized creators of currency. Maybe a few NPC factions that act like authorities with various goals. They’d provide this coin to us for certain tasks, and would be the ones who collect the tax we pay on various things. Aligning a settlement to one of these authorities would allow for protection against certain things, like raids from other authorities. Staying unaligned would prevent taxation, but make you susceptible to being attacked or something.

We get access to “online” markets within an authority’s network.

Exchange rates between these authorities could be a fun mechanic too as we could increase the value of a currency by working to accomplish that authority’s goals increasing their power, yadda yadda.


#52

Removing coin is a step backwards. Even considering it as an option negates any element of MMO play in the game. You cannot have a functional economy with a barter system. You need a system of equivalency between goods, and that is what currency is used for. Its an entirely preposterous notion to even consider it unless the game becomes single player OR eliminates player-based trade entirely. Which are both steps backwards.

Instead, the dialogue needs to be focused around mechanisms that support the economy for all players.

As many have said before and again, they have issues with footfall. Footfall’s intended purpose is to support and reward players who create neat things that the community desires. Footfall is a reward for doing a public work, but if it isn’t significant enough, then it doesn’t merit the effort. Footfall needs to be increased.

There are strong opinions when it comes to the need for an auction house. I have suggested before an option is a Shop Portal. A device that takes you directly to the shop stand that is selling what you desire. This isn’t the only suggestion, but currently buying anything is tedious and time consuming. Interacting with the economy as a whole should not be hard. Amazon is a great example of a company who made buying things easy. Allow players to buy from each other easily, and conveniently with the addition of an auction house-like device.

Inflation is a phrase that is tossed around and it sounds more scary than it is. A definition is “Inflation is a quantitative measure of the rate at which the average price level of a basket of selected goods and services in an economy increases over a period of time. It is the constant rise in the general level of prices where a unit of currency buys less than it did in prior periods.” The economy needs inflation in order to make gathering and other activities feel “worth it”. Inflation can be supported and fueled with additional coin taps.

Random crafting, specifically forging, is only a time sink rather than a resource sink. If we didn’t have a deconstruction resin, forges would be nearly prohibitively expensive, with each forge being a costly gamble and taking extreme numbers of resources out of the game world. Deconstruction resin short-circuits this mechanism and ensures that the majority of “wasted” resources are returned to the player. This results in the only wasted element being time. Time is not reflected in the value of forged materials. Instead, forges should be more resource-intensive and be selectable. IE: Players can forge exactly what you want at the cost of more resource consumption.

Communication between players, specifically the chat window, is counter-intuitive. Players need improved methods to communicate that doesn’t included tabular or nested chat windows. Speech bubbles, location indicators or some other methodology to demonstrate presence of a player in the physical world is essential to commerce.

Big builds need to have an behavioral stimulus. That is, if the only reason you built a big building was to fill it with your stuff, then what was the purpose? Big constructs need a function within the game that supports both economic and player activities. Factories, power plants, and assembly lines would stimulate more advanced builds and serve entire communities of players.

I have more, but this is a good start.


#53

“Preposterous” seems like a strong reaction. We can have whatever economic system we want, MMO’s aren’t tied to any particular economic model. We basically are living in tribal societies anyway. The idea that there is a centralized currency is really odd considering there is no centralized agency that “creates” this currency. A high-tech barter system seems perfectly suited to a high-tech tribal society.

But I’m also happy to lean in to the currency, as per my second post afterwards, but it would need to come with more development around where this money is coming from, ie NPCs, governments, auction houses, etc.

The prompt was to re-imagine the source of income though, so I went back to basics :slight_smile:


#54

Honestly the biggest problem I see with the current system is players want to be able to buy from the economy without selling to it. There is more than enough coin in the system already so to get it all you need to do is gather indemand resources and sell them to those with the coin.

Adding more sources of coin just makes for a more lopsided market that will eventually break.

I think footfall is a great way for those that provide services (portal networks, hunt leaders and enclosed resource farms) to earn the coin to keep their services going and make the effort to maintain it worthwhile. Footfall is not the main invome for a majority of players but still a valuable part of it. Using the portal networks as an example all that coin gets pumped into the economy in the forms of request baskets for oort, I don’t beleive there are any networks out there that run a large surplus on coin made (possibly with extensive footfall trapping, but i doubt it) so it seems to be working well for that use.


#55

Footfall is/was never intended to be the coin tap. The devs themselves have stated as much. So I don’t know why everyone focuses on that. They really should focus on the actual taps. The 100c daily chest thing and feats etc. Also ways to add quests etc.


#56

No, Footfall can stay as it is or removed. I personally don’t like it and how prestige works, but it does still cater a big part of big hubs costs, which is fine.

What we need are more ways to get coin, that I agree with. But the solution is not footfall. What the solution is, I don’t know.

I highly disagree here. There is a high supply of nearly everything (new updates may vary). I’ve been around since December, and even selling at very affordable prices take a long time because people are hesitant to spend coin as they have so little of it.

Every bit of coin I get I put into circulation. Naturally I have a buffer zone which I don’t want to go under. But we need more coin in the game or need more item sinks (like tools breaking) to find a stable point where supply meets demand. Chrysominter is a great item sink but people don’t really wanna use it since most of the items give so little coin. But it’s done great things to fossils. Large Fossil saw a really healthy increase in price when it rose from 8-10c each to nearly 40c each. At 10c each it was almost pointless to even consider medium or small fossils.


#57

Theoretically every material should equalise in supply/demand. People are more likely to gather highly valued items, so low supply items will increase in price until there’s equilibrium between people seeing it as worthwhile to gather and sell at that price. High supply items will decrease in price until people stop gathering it and the value starts increasing.

There’s outliers that are gathered in large quantities as a side effect of some high value items dropping them as well so their value is neglible. Like rocksalt, flint etc.

Problem is that current price ranges for items, and their location, aren’t as transparent as they could be. It’s hard to make the supplied items meet the buyers since stands/baskets can be anywhere on the 50 worlds with no real way of indexing them all.


But to the actual topic:

Devs state that dailies are the current tap. I personally don’t even look at them, since the coin amounts are so low it doesn’t matter. But in the big picture it seems that the value of coin is quite stable atm so I’m afraid that if they add more coin to the system we’ll see the MMO economy norm, rampant inflation. If we get more coin, but everything costs the same relative to your income, what’s the difference?

As some have said it’s already easy to get coin if you dedicate time doing it. And that’s how it’s designed, you trade your time to another player by doing X, to skip doing Y yourself. It’s an impossible equation that you do X and also want to get the results of Y. So I agree with @Cakengrad


#58

Extra heart to @Mayumichi


#59

This feels like the single most pertinent point in the thread, although I read it a little differently. I’d say that if people only want to buy from the economy without selling to it, then they actually don’t want or care about the economy at all. They’re just looking for a shortcut to get the things they want that feel the least rewarding or most unpleasant to acquire.

If the expectation is that they should go out and grind resource X in order to buy resource Y, assuming that supply and demand has roughly normalised prices, why wouldn’t they just go out and grind Y instead? As far as I can see, the only answer is personal preference of which tedious task they dislike least. A player might dislike mining so much they’d rather hunt instead.

But from my experience, it usually works out better to just suck it up and do the activity that you like less and be sure you’ll get what you’re after. The alternative is picking something you don’t mind (as much) doing for hours, and then having to interact with the ‘economy’ (first selling what you gathered and then buying what you wanted) in order to hopefully get what you want. By the end of the economy step of that, I’m often more frustrated or bored than If I’d just done the less preferable activity.

So, either there should be more coin introduced into the game somehow so that people can actually bypass the things they least like doing OR the economy should become significantly more accessible so that the coin that we do have flows more freely, depending on which route the Devs would prefer Boundless to take.


#60

But that’s the thing, if there’s more coin introduced to the economy prices will slowly increase to compensate. Then after 4 years we’ll be “paying” the same amount of grind time to get X as before. Though all balance changes in other areas that occur in that time affect this.

I think it’d be better to first explore lowering the frustration that interacting with the economy currently produces, so I pretty much agree with all the other things you mentioned.


#61

I definitely agree, that would be my preference of a solution.