fair enough.
i respect your opinions, i just dont share them 
Why not just have skills insteadâŚ
Skills can be learned from scrolls found in chests or earned in events.
Mastery of skills depends on how many times you use said skillsâŚ
passive skills or pvp skills all depend on number of times triggered.
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Iâve made post aboud Jobs / professions here
https://forum.oortonline.com/t/automated-timesinks/645/4?u=heurazio
I would like to see âactiveâ skills coming mainly from items you wear (like weapons, tools or gear) and are not just âlearnedâ by using a item once. That would fit better into a crafing themed game like Oort. I know that it is also a MMORPG, but that doesnât meen that it have to adapt the concepts of classes or skills âfixedâ on the character.
For specialisation I have a whole different opinion. I would like to have a âdo it to learn itâ for fields like fighting with a group of weapons or fields of crafting or building. But that is not a must for skills.
I would definitely prefer combat skills being attached to items, so you could have a sword that does something when you left click and something else when you right click.
How about using a scroll in the crafting process to add the skill to the item. Cannot add new skills to items and to regain skill scrolls you must deconstruct items for a chance of reacquiring skills and materials.
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That sounds like a great idea. Donât have to be scrolls but can also be gems or small sculptures. May be with a higher crafting skill the chance to obtain the skill out of an item is inceased 
I kinda agree and disagree with general 2 ideas that people have talked here.
Limiting jobs and professions would be more realistic and make game more social plus some jobs more profitable as players should trade stuff to get something that is from different job or skill. I get that some want to play this in offline where there aren`t player to trade, but do you still need to be master of everything?
On another hand I don´t mind idea of master of everything idea in online. We could make it really slow at higher levels or professions. Certain âfunâ aspect would take hit as skilling could become grinding of same stuff over and over in order to advance to next level. That´s awful idea to some people and I don´t like it much, but I survived many years in another online mmorpg called Runescape where I finally acquired maximum skill total of 2595 after many bloody teardrops.
(edit:added next part, credit goes for original writers.)
Combat skills aside, we need to think way to combine best parts of general leveling system that could and can work in Oort online without it turning to be best equipment rules them all, skilling only 1 thing makes you invincible or be just random master of everything game like in minecraft.
Progression through leveling, no complex skill progression, leveling increases base stats.
Progression through skills, no leveling or base stat changes, skills progress through usage.
Progression through items, more focus on stat-changing items, items confer skills, no leveling.
The first sacrifices more frequent rewards and customization in favor of a simpler gameplay; the second sacrifices explicit customization and player control in favor of more frequent rewards and a somewhat simpler gameplay; while the third sacrifices inventory simplicity and a player metric in favor of player control, customization and progression simplicity.
Leveling: Normally âlevelingâ implies an xp scheme, and xp is granted for doing stuff the game designer wants the player to be doing (fighting monster of the appropriate difficult, completing quests, etc). Normally this is tuned to make the players advancement a function of time. This also allows players of all skill levels to progress similarly through the game. Arbitraty XP + leveling schemes give the greatest flexibility to the designer.
Skills: This scheme results in a positive reinforcement loop on skills, encouraging the player for doing the same thing over and over. This often leads to highly specialized and potentially unique characters, often with the player having a high feeling investment in the character. The downsides are the repetitiveness and that the player might not be able to transition to using/exploring other skills after significant investment in their initial skills.
Items: I can think of 3 ways items are granted these days. (1) Random drop (diablo) - results in the psychological properties of random reward schedules, but can result in frustration due to the randomness. (2) Boss drop/reward (WoW, plants vs zombies) - progression based reward scheme, results in major feeling of accomplishment, and also elitism (both good and bad features), though can have high falloff when the difficulty of the accomplishment is too high. (3) Based on currency (LoL, final fantasy) - this basically turns make the currency a form of XP thatâs transformed into power thematically via the items, makes it basically like âlevelingâ described above.
Many games mix and match progression schemes (along with things like âplayer skillâ, âdistance through the gameworld/storyâ and others) with the overall goal of keeping the player engaged and having things to look forward to.
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thereâs one problem with getting money from the game itself for doing random things: inflation. as everyone gets more money, everything will be constantly raising in price. I personally think there needs to be some sort of limit to how much money you can get from nowhere.
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For that problem games have things called gold sinks. We could have:
- weapons and armours that require a fair amount of money to be repaired and needs to be repaired regularly.
- Tolls - Such as for portal usage.
- Shop that sells expensive items such as marble, gold leaf, and magic stones that are not obtainable any other way.
- Fee for daily/monthly beacon upkeep
- Some crafting recipes could use money as component
Better to combat inflation through job income with gold sinks. Some of these farming jobs could also have diminishing returns based on how often they pay out for completing a task. That way, players can still grind for great fortune, but it takes exponentially more effort the longer they try. Balance that with gold sinks to remove money from the economy and it should be fairly sustainable.
Another possibility would be to have a cost associated with each job. Tool repairs or some sort of set up costs could reduce inflation.
Most often the problem economies get in MMOâs like WoW comes not from gold farming, but from player trade and gold sellers. Auction house flippers often make massive sums of gold by doing nothing at all but buying other peopleâs items for cheep and selling them at a mark up. Some of these people then either sell their gold to a player or service in exchange for real world money, dumping huge sums of gold into the economy while not spending a dime on typical gold sinks like repairs or flight points or training.
I have to agree with him, it was also on of the things that bothered me about the post, the getting gold from nowhere, we have talked about having gold as a currency, but it is sitll not sure it is going to be in the final game, and although thorbjorn made some good thoughts in his pose it still seems a bit useless. Usually gold can be used because gold have a set value in mmos, meaning in wow if you go to an npc you can buy a potion for 1 g, no matter what happens to the coins, you will always be able to buy that potion for 1 g, hence making a baseline.
Random Gold i would be against. it might make sense to you, and i think its a nice idea of rewarding doing your job, but i dont think gold is the best thing to reward it with, the exp you get for leveling it up should be enough 
also though i agree some may do that, it is still faulty logic. sorry to say. Inflation comes when you tip the MiMo balance of the game (money in, money out) wow as an example had inflation because it was so long so to say?`meaning that they needed ot increase the gold amount so it was always worth killing the higher level creatures rather than the low level ones, but when you have had people killing high level creatures for 2 years, its near impossible to have a good economy.
The MiMo balance says that to have a good economy you need to have
Money in:
Quests
Gold drops
Selling stuff
and
Money Out:
Repairs
buying stuff from an npc
flight cost.
The hardest part is if oort wont have npcâs then its quite tricky. i would kinda prefer to not have it, i think the main currency of the game is going to be oortshards, just because it can be used for so many different things
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A lore wise working explanation would be that you attract dust from Oort shards if you focus on performing a task, this dust is then used as currency. The better you becomes at a job the better you becomes at focusing on the task.
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And perhaps just getting exp would be enough. Still, one of the things I noticed when I ran an MMO style MC server was that when earning gold is tough, itâs harder to get players to be willing to spend that gold when they wanted something, and that they often would rather make what ever they needed themselves. The end result was many very wealthy players that never spent a dime on anything and zero trade economy. Very depressing.
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Indeed, sorry i changed my post about, can you read the last part? i was too slow XD
But yeah, it is a good argument, however the problem with that is also what i pointed out somewhere else ââif everybody can make everything, then crafting will have 0 influence on economyââ which is why i was always for specializing in certain crafting professions.
as i also stated in the last one it is quite tricky to have gold in a game without npcâs. as far as im aware they have an economist on the team though, so they know what they are doing (like always)
The ideal world would be something like
Warrior go kills 100 creatures and get 10 gold
Warrior buys new sword from smith for said gold
Smith buys material from miner for said gold
Miner buys armor from leatherworker to reduce falldamage
Leatherworker buys leather from warrior.
etcâŚ
that is the general idea, when you have player roles where not everybody can do everything it makes a much better economy.
so to repeat myself again, i really cant think of a good way to get out of the lack of money sink, i also had a post if creatures should actually drop gold. if they dont then we can abolish gold all together, and then its going to be a bit more of a fluent trade (warrior asks for a pair of boots that takes 3 leather, he gives 5 leather to the leatherworker, leatherworker makes the boots, gives them to warrior, and have now earned 2 leather
but that is so tricky to put value on it, basic economy states that everything is worth the time used
If it takes 1 hour to get either: 10 gold ore, 25 skin, 50 iron ores, 5 oortstone, 42 blood herbs. then all of those things are worth the same, not counting supply and demand ofc.
but that is quite the rant about economy, sorry for doing it in your job thread.
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@Zouls The hardest part is if oort wont have npcâs then its quite tricky.
@Havok40k Still, one of the things I noticed when I ran an MMO style MC server was that when earning gold is tough, itâs harder to get players to be willing to spend that gold when they wanted something
Does it change the equation at all if gold is something that can only be dug up, and not dropped by monsters?
Actually, the economy I used in MC was based on a similar concept. In that server, players would dig up diamonds like they normally would. Since in MC once you have your tools and armor all at diamond level there is really no further use for diamonds other than repairs and upkeep, we had a bank that accepted diamonds in exchange for non-physical currency in the players account. That money could be traded to other players for services or withdrawn from the bank for a diamond refund. Problem was that players ended up using the currency as a sort of score board and never made any trades. Many other players would resort to hacks and mods to gain unfair advantages or steal from other players.
I see where youâre coming from in your opinion against gaining gold from performing the job, and I agree with you that when everybody can create anything, it stifles trade. The structure of the jobs concept here is something of a compromise of two ideas. The first idea is that players should be able to have what they need to survive. The second idea is that jobs should serve a meaningful purpose and trade between jobs should be encouraged. So what I propose is that any player should be able to make at the very least, the basics of any job field even if they donât specialize in that job. Only a person that specializes in that job would be able to make improved versions of that job, being as they have skill and experience in making that particular thing. What Iâm hoping is that this would encourage players to trade with other professions in order to get the best of what they need. Perhaps a good way to encourage this is to have certain reagents needed by one profession to only be obtainable by trading with players of a different profession? Example; a farmer needs a better hoe to harvest higher level crops, and only a blacksmith can make that tool? Another example would be a blacksmith needs premium coal to heat his forges to make better tools, and only a professional miner can create that coal. In this way, players can still function at a basic level by themselves, but progression relies on player trade. I donât know if that would fix the main concerns here, but I think itâs a good approach.
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The thing about being tied together is quite neat. as long as it stays on a low level. i play the game called ââthe repopulationââ and i swear to god⌠all crafting professions are tied together, so you might need mats from 4 different crafting professions just to make a single sword, that is frustrating.
but yeah, there should be things that can only be created by a certain profession which would kinda be the point. i suggested a way to do progression in crafting and general here:
https://forum.oortonline.com/t/suggestions-for-crafting-professions/793
basically if we have to be able to learn every. make it a loooong while. for lower level stuff i think it is fine you can make it yourself. but when you get higher up there could be more of a connection between the trades. as you mentioned special mats only a miner can do, special tools only a smith can make. etcâŚ
But how its going to work highly depends on the progression system they are going to have 
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