I’m sure you’re right, overall. Wouldn’t want to do anything drastic
However it seems like that way (adding another layer of progression) is definitely a matter of increasing the RPG layers that seem to frustrate so many new players interested in the building and other systems. This would provide some relief for the current end-game players who don’t like to keep crafting as the major focus of their gameplay. I think that’s maybe a little counter productive for the actual growth of the game, though.
I suppose someone could try a sort of “therapeutic” method.
Remove all of your coils (down to three I think)
Mass craft a full queue of compressed hard coal, or maybe large fossil extractions.
Add a coil, just one
Full queue again
Repeat cycle
Mid 2024 or so, when you achieve full coils again, those fully coiled machines are going to seem pretty fast
So honestly I feel like I’ve been pretty clear on the actual topic here. It seems kind of futile but at this time I think (obviously) that messing around in this area is probably actually a good idea. I’d hate to see crafting gutted from the game at one level - but it really could be instrumental in changing the way causal and creative types interact with the larger game, as well as really opening the door wider for people that want to participate, but consider themselves first and foremost to be builders, and are currently really thwarted here.
Or relegated to creative, which is fine if it’s someone purely building for themselves, I guess. But honestly, that doesn’t seem to have really been an answer.
OFC just managing people’s expectations a little more directly from the beginning would be enough to solve a lot of friction
That’s a link to another thread with a bunch off rambling, but they’ll have to consider a rebalance in some depth to do that effectively.
If it still requires a large space, a ton of end-game gear, and a mass number of machines in a repeating load-queue-wait-unload cycle it will be a ton of dev work for very little actual result.
Obviously (I think) there’s a ton of nuance here. Definitely not to belittle anyone’s thoughts but IMO ‘timers’ are not actually a very isolated issue. In a game where character progression is tied very tightly to your ability to influence (plot) the worlds it’s non-trivial.
IDK how much value there is in spending a ton of time trying to outline a proper solution though
Let us triple compact our advanced power coils for faster speeds. 50 advanced power coils --> 1 compact advanced power coil ; 50 compact advanced power coils --> 1 densely compact power coil ; 50 densely compact power coils --> 1 quantum power coil. Or 3 MILLION advanced power coils for a fully powered machine that converts hours to seconds.
You have to fill the machines up with something to gain XP. The timers are not stopping anyone from using crafting to power level. People who want to do that just get more machines.
In some ways, the timers encourage that plotting whole worlds sort of behavior. If you have thousands of machines, you have to put them somewhere, and they cannot be stacked vertically. People’s bases just grow and grow and grow to hold all the machines.
Its the people who don’t want 90 bazillion machines who have this issue. I like my workshop the size it is now. I’ve got about 100 machines, and I don’t really want any more.
If we are going to balance the game around people with 10k hours of playtime, that is going to and already is causing its own issues.
I know I type a lot lol. It’s for me as much as anyone else tbh.
Etc … but yeah honestly I think we’re on the same page here. Overall.
The difference between standing at one machine and grinding through your entire inventory vs needing to move around among tens of machines etc … is definitely an area that highlights the difference between and end-game player trying to shave off some annoyance, and a change of direction that really impacts the way new (and old, but mainly new) players will see their possible future with the game.
I would 100% not (and I’ve argued against this before) suggest that even 1 second of “dev time” should be spent considering the range of changes needed to reasonably re-develop the crafting system around further incremental reductions to appease a few (honestly crybaby) late game players.
IMO the easiest way to rebalance around it is to simply remove most of it. And while that’s something that would be a HUGE shock to the current ecosystem - it’s also something that could drastically improve the way that the target demographic approaches the game.
Yeah there’s plenty of posts on this forum of me saying that’s a silly waste of time. Even if a good part of it is buried under a lot of extra verbiage
EDIT: After some thought, I just want to add that you won’t find many say, 5k+ hours players out here complaining about the basics of the game, or it’s mechanics.
Some participate more or less in the conversations about the direction of the game. Some would prefer to see more expansion while some would like to see more focus on the late game specifically. It’s not common to see one of them just ranting on about “how the game sucks”.
There’s a point where someone has done a lot and they just want to be left alone to focus on the thing. Whatever the thing is. It’s understandable but it’s also like the gem-wall, or any other mid-game slump. The people that have spent literal years in the game have found their own ways to deal with it.
Excessive hours/levels are not necessarily critical because by the time you’ve put in a couple hundred hours and filled up a skill page or two, you’ve definitely had a chance to take a good look at the parts of the game that interest you.
Oh, I was referring to the comments about people breaking the economy and whatnot. To have enough materials to single handedly break the economy because crafting timers were removed, you would have to have a lot of hours in the game. At least I assume you would. I certainly don’t have enough spare materials laying around to break things, and I haven’t got the coins to buy them to break it either. Maybe other people are just much better hoarders than I am, though.
It won’t break the economy it just devalues items. If everyone can craft 5mil compact hard coal instantly or say 99% faster the value of it decreases and that goes along with every other item that the timers would affect. That doesn’t break the economy either it just changes its landscape.
Some people who would rely on selling items in shops to make coin in game would then find they would have to sell their items for way less just to turn a profit since they would be more readily available.
A prime example for me, I make so much concrete that at times when I get a bulk order, I’ll burst through kindling like there is no tomorrow. While I do have a HUGE kindling farm, I do find that I may have to buy it from time to time, if it was something that was actually crafted with almost no timers, I would have no need to buy it. Thus, it affects the economy so the people that I buy it from wouldn’t make any coin or as much.
EDIT: I also may buy kindling because I’m just lazy sometimes.
I know you weren’t speaking specifically to me, but I don’t want to see development done on the timers as I don’t think that if they removed them or dramatically reduced them that it would draw in more players or retain more.
This is why most games push out content much faster than fixing non-game-breaking bugs. More content would bring more players in and retain more players, but that NPE may not be game-breaking, but it is enough to frustrate a new player to the point they want to quit. I have seen it happen to 30 or so people now. Game breaking? Nah… but damn is it something that would really help new players stick around.
The timers wouldn’t affect me either way, I’m in no rush. Most people won’t be either, unless they need coin, which would be harder to come by due to a devalue in all items.
While I agree that reducing crafting times dramatically or removing them altogether would devalue items, I am confident it would be negligible. I think you’re dramatically overvaluing crafting times as impetus to enter the marketplace instead of the primary impetus which is simply the gathering process for the materials. I consider the latter the primary and overwhelming reason people buy things instead of making them themselves.
I don’t think that if they removed them or dramatically reduced them that it would draw in more players or retain more
I am 100% confident it would do exactly the latter part. I can know this because I personally know of several people who either paused or completely left the game in large part because of the arbitrary blockade that is crafting timers.
We are all entitled to our opinion and should be able to freely publish our views without the need of someone having a go at them.
At the end of the day:
They have failed to deliver advertised content, a timeline for future Developement and most importantly failed to communicate updates to the community for close to 2 years.
If they are happy with the current state of the game, that’s ok just communicate it and move on. If they are working on something exciting say it’s in development with a soft release date.
They setup a Feedback section on the forums to ask the community for suggestions ect that they would love to see in game, yet it goes unanswered for years? If it’s funds or time that are lacking why not consider pushing the game to open source so the community can freely create and contribute new items/textures/mobs ect to James for consideration.
I agree, but going on about it for 4 days bumping the same topic again and again just to make sure people read it hoping they start agreeing with him is just too much for my taste.
I am also entitled to say something about it and he did cross a line.
He made his point here and even started ingame complaining about it. Sorry but that has to stop.
I will report this, maybe they can close this topic.
It’s an open forum and as long as I’m not personally attacking anyone, I’m entitled to share my game-related opinions freely both in-game and out. Deal with it.
EDIT: In fairness, Prozee, it took almost 4 days for my coal to finish crafting. I had a lot of time on my hands as a result.
