Creature Balance

[olliepurkiss]

The question of creature balance was brought up in another thread so I thought I'd start a new one with info the current state.

With all the new creatures going in, I have spent some time balancing to try and make it somewhat representative of what we want to do. Bear in mind though, that without the stat and progression systems implemented there are many things we cannot do yet.

The current state is that the home worlds have quite passive creature populations, and whilst there are aggressive ones on there, there shouldn't be too many, and they shouldn't be too powerful. They will cause problems, and consequently challenge, for a starting player, but should be able to be defeated by someone who has tooled up. With the addition of berries too, players should be able to have a stock of healing items ready. Worlds beyond the home worlds have progressively more and harder creatures on them. The moon worlds are pretty hard, and the ring worlds are very hard. I would be very careful on these worlds, and make sure you're adequately equipped when going there.

There are many changes to the systems in the pipeline that will enable us to have a real sense of progression, challenge, and achievement, and I look forward to getting that stuff in.

As always, let me know what you think of the current state.

[Beowulf1000]

Currently the aggressive wildlife that you run into is not too difficult as you said, when tooled up. When you do not have any weapons for defense you are at their mercy.

I feel like it is now more balanced with the update as you need to run into a higher tiered wildlife for them to do more damage which is less likely on starter worlds.

The rate at which the wildlife spawns however is a concern. Sure 1 spitter shows up, but then all of sudden there are 3 or 4 and that is difficult to deal with no matter what kind of defense you have.

[Karko]

Yeah getting dropped every few seconds is annoying. I'm glad you nerfed the spitters to 1000 for beginning worlds. Something that I think you might want to consider is a way to stop them from spawning in your beacon and near your plots. Claiming surrounding plots and building a wall is one thing I though about. Or maybe they stay a way from light. I don't mind getting killed while exploring but at my house I think I should be safe. @Havok40k went to great lengths to protect his house by building it off a tree floating in the sky so spitters could not get to it. But we found one in his house so maybe they can spawn in beacon claims.

[Valkirth]

haha yeah i live on a island floating above ground for that very reason xD

[T4LCOMX]

i think being killed in ten hits is too soon, for a new player on a beginner planet, especially when it degrades your weapon durability. id rather respawning cost me a coin than reduce my weapon health.

I wouldnt be opposed to a degree of scaling of enemies that spawn in a certain radius of you based on your various ranks / attributes.

A basic dodge would be nice. Perhaps with a double tap of a direction you can do a short dash or roll in that direction.

Sound ques will help when fighting enemies once they get added in, such as the spitter charging up or the bulls raring back to charge, or them floaty squiddimabobbers inhaling air before hacking up some throat cheese on us.

A basic thing we should be able to do is throw rocks:

As of right now you have to build that table to make a slingbow then make the arrows. Hammer and Axe dont fare to well against creatures with their limited range, and it seems like the contact takes place when the weapon strikes and not when you click. That makes it hard to hit them if youre trying to evade their attacks at the same time....so:

Letting us break down 'rock' into throwable 'rocks' for basic level defense would be really helpful to all players. newbies have something right away they can use to defend with, and more experienced players have backup if they get caught empty handed after using all tools up during exploration (and from being killed so many times that the duration evaporated).

And if im gonna suggest that, ill go ahead and suggest making higher quality throwable rocks and even a slingshot for them. david and goliath anyone?

it would also be nice to have a skill that improves our swing speed / swing range / and swing dmg for various weapon types (axe sword hammer slingbow etc)

shields too. shields and blocking... if i can make a refinery and a compactor why cant i make a wooden shield ?!

[Bokke]

I like that the spitter creature has some difficulty to it. Evading the stones it throws is tricky and I need to run away and hop to higher ground. It's cool. But it also is quite resilient. Hilarious attacking behauviour worked out best for me. Two respawns included, at least.

There often is this typical evading move in 3rd person games, like for example in "newer" Zelda games. In which you can turn-jump around a locked creature or opponent. I'd find it interesting if there is a creature who would do exactly this. It makes swift sideway moves or turns around my character for 90 degrees or similar. Could turn out very confusing and with too many opponents, even annoying - so I'm not too sure if it is a good idea.

[Smoothy]

Hey @olliepurkiss,

thanks for the input. I don't know if you read my comment to the last news post or if this thread is based on it. Nevermind, i raised a few questions regarding your balancing and damage output of weapons.

Can you give as an insight, of how you intend to increase the difficulty / toughness especially regarding tier and element.
i.e. is a tier 3 wildstock / ice element potentially stronger then tier 4 normal? or will the element just give the wildstock abilities based on their element but not increase the toughness? Imo, element versions of certain creature tiers should be tougher then the normal ones, since they bring more reward.

Second I was asking, how do you inten to scale damage outputs of weapons?
- Will each weapon tier just base on material or will we be able to develope a weapon on in different ways then just choosing other materials?
- same as for creatures, will elements just give elemental effects or also increase damage of a weapon?
- what about combination between "shot weapons" and munition. Will my copper sling shot do different damage if I enter different munition (will I be able to insert higher tier munition in lower tier weapons or other way round)? What gives more damage benefit, the weapon or the munition?

[olliepurkiss]

The rate at which the wildlife spawns however is a concern. Sure 1 spitter shows up, but then all of sudden there are 3 or 4 and that is difficult to deal with no matter what kind of defense you have.

Have you seen this on the home worlds on the live servers? In the live update I reduced the amount of aggressive creatures spawning on home worlds so that new players had a fighting chance. I'd be interested to hear if you still think it's a problem after my change.

[olliepurkiss]

Something that I think you might want to consider is a way to stop them from spawning in your beacon and near your plots.

we found one in his house so maybe they can spawn in beacon claims.

They shouldn't be spawning in beacons, but there could be a bug in the spawning logic which means they do sometimes – we'll look into that. They can walk into beacons though, so a wall and a door should be enough to keep them at bay. Beaconed blocks can never be broken so if your wall is high enough, or you have a roof then you should be completely safe in your house.

[olliepurkiss]

Can you give as an insight, of how you intend to increase the difficulty / toughness especially regarding tier and element.
i.e. is a tier 3 wildstock / ice element potentially stronger then tier 4 normal? or will the element just give the wildstock abilities based on their element but not increase the toughness? Imo, element versions of certain creature tiers should be tougher then the normal ones, since they bring more reward.

Elemental versions will definitely be more powerful than the non-elemental versions, and will be rarer, and have rarer drops. Exactly how the balance will fall I'm not sure, but I think an elemental tier 3 could be more powerful than a tier 4. It won't just be straight forward though as different elements will change more stats than just damage and health.Toxin creatures may do damage over time for example, and shock creatures may move faster.

Second I was asking, how do you inten to scale damage outputs of weapons?

The rarer material types for weapons will be generally better than the less rare ones, so Diamond will be better than Copper which will be better than Stone; however, it won't be a completely straightforward, as there will be a lot of other variation between them too. So Iron weapons might have high durability, high damage, but be very slow, whereas Copper would have moderate durability, moderate damage, and be quick. You may decide to use the Copper over the Iron even though Iron is slightly rarer. This will be particularly prominent with the gem weapons as we will balance so that they are all of equivalent power, but each feels very different to use.

On top of the base weapon there are three systems that can adjust its stats: the crystal that you put into it (munitions), using the forge to upgrade it, and your character's stats.

• what about combination between "shot weapons" and munition. Will my copper sling shot do different damage if I enter different munition (will I be able to insert higher tier munition in lower tier weapons or other way round)? What gives more damage benefit, the weapon or the munition?

The resulting stats of a weapon which has a crystal loaded will be a combination of the base weapon and the crystal, so a crystal will modify the stats of the weapon rather than replace them, and may add other effects too. You can put any crystal in to any weapon, but the stat modification will be such that putting a really powerful crystal into a very weak weapon will make it somewhat better, but the the law of diminishing returns will apply so it will probably be a waste of resources / coin.

Overall the aim of these systems is to create a real sandbox around the stats of weapons, tools and equipment, which along with the character progression system allows for players to create their own combinations, and have their loadouts play the way they want them to play.

[Beowulf1000]

For starter worlds it is not bad, let me correct myself. Other worlds have more aggressive wildlife like you mentioned.

[T4LCOMX]

ive been thinking since last night, and its my opinion that the durability of the slingbow should be much greater. we arent bashing it against anything so it should have a greater lifespan.

a also think the various resources used to craft the slingbow should determine the flight of the projectile. Enemy weakness to certain types of projectiles made with various materials (iron, gold, amethyst) would be great as well, also affecting the projection and possibly impact.

and i still think we should be able to throw rocks