Maybe for you. That is not how my endgame looks. I have all that stuff and it’s all empty compared to my vision for future projects.
I simply skip the trying to make money idea. I do whatever I need to in order to do whatever it is of interest at the moment. Right now I’m building three structures and a road plus slowly upgrading the materials I used to make what is my main place in the desert at the moment (an ugly box perhaps I can figure out what to do with). I’m learning a bit building in the meantime. I just have no interest in managing a business. Done enough of that in my real life and retired now (other than my art… writing a novel and a bit of consulting I do free for a few people). Doing business in a game is boring and far more interesting to just do it all myself. No idea what I’m doing building, but, mistakes are how we learn (especially since we are only in the testing phase). It’s enjoyable and money really isn’t necessary unless you pressure yourself to do things faster.
I have always liked your attitude @Creegle as you tend to relax more than some that just seem to want a competition (which always makes me wonder why they are in Boundless that doesn’t have a competition, an end game, or winners to me). Build forever, hunt forever, wander forever as we will be having a ton of planets to explore. There is no end unless you are tired of the game and then you make whatever you want to consider an end. If life is too easy then just start a new character (deleting one if necessary) and begin a new adventure. Builders always talking about money never seem to mention art. They really just see building as an interesting way to make a lot of money especially if they can get as much income as possible and being the mayor or whatever receiving taxes is a pretty easy way to make a lot of money thus the competition. You seem more like an actual artist rather than an opportunist with building as the means to wealth. That’s my kind of person.
I skimmed through things and saw something about blueprints.
If I could blueprint where I want to put blocks, what is chiseled, etc. and then click a button to apply it on the area I am gonna build in, that would be cool. It would pull all the blocks and use all the durability from tools that it would take to build out whatever the structure or space is.
I think that would make building stuff even more amazing and have some quality of life improvements towards it.
It would also be a good way to see how something is going to look before you actually place the blocks in the game. Sort of would double as a planner too.
Just a thought I guess. I do like the possibilities of some kind of blueprint idea.
I like the idea of daily bonuses for amount of what you have built (preferably without prestige as that encourages things like a gold egg in a building just to increase prestige and make more money or fill a room full of gems or whatever for prestige points). That encourages builders to keep on building as long as they like and can keep the beacons fueled to keep the plots. It allows those who are artists to be artists rather than seeking prestige points. Make a different method of selecting mayors etc. or get rid of monetary rewards for being mayor etc. I suspect that would get rid of a lot of the competition right there for building prestige supremacy. Footfall I really don’t like though. That to me just forces a competition to have the best plots available in cities to get high traffic like on common routes into Therka Market or in the market. It doesn’t do a thing for an artist who may make a shipwreck in the middle of the desert, a duck, a hot air balloon, etc. as it won’t get a lot of footfall so won’t generate a bunch of money. If you want any decent money from footfall you basically have to get into a town or city. I would prefer the building bonus to be a daily bonus based on what you have built rather than where you have built. A shop needs high traffic. Art does not. A shop should make money based on what it sells at what price rather than footfall. Art should definitely not need footfall if it is to be equal with other building. I guess that’s why whenever builders talk about how they want money given to them I immediatly think of them as businessmen who want to do the building part of a construction business and get paid without selling what they made or selling their services. It’s silly to me. Hunters don’t get paid just for hunting… they have to make a shop and craft or otherwise sell what they got from hunting, miners don’t make money from mining, they have to sell their product before or after crafting. Builders shouldn’t make money just from building as long as hunters and miners don’t make money just from those activities. Artists in real life who don’t sell their art? It’s called homeless or on welfare or simply starving artist. So, for those who don’t want to ever sell whatever their occupation then make an income in the bonuses that isn’t dependent on selling and fair to all. Or, make it easier and more common for builders to be able to sell their services or products (buildings). Or realize that builders are the only ones that will be able to collect taxes and therefor are already going to be highly paid if they build enough in one location as a reward.
Personally I’m for the daily bonus idea for building as well as blueprints. That gives a basic income for anyone who doesn’t want to play a money game. Those who want to play a money game are free to open shops or sell to shops to their heart’s content and be richer than the rest of us that don’t care about their money game. When I do look at shops for whatever reason I stay out of the big business ones other than to just compare. If looking to possibly buy something I look for small shops that I see might have what I’m looking for. Same in real life. I support small local stores as much as possible and avoid Amazon, Walmart or any big chain.
The newest game by Lord British of Ultima fame has blueprints for everything. Some blueprints you can get from NPC vendors if you can find the right vendor. Those tend to be for low to medium difficulty in things like blacksmithing, carpentry, cooking, tailor, etc. Others you can find in drops or from trainers, or discover with experimentation. A few high end things might be available in the cash shop… not sure. Those you find in drops, discover experimenting, or even buy from NPC’s or other players tend to be sellable. So, once you know a blueprint you can sell it. You don’t just automatically learn recipes by leveling. Skill points just build up for you to spend based on what you do. If you ever cook you will never have cooking skills. If you never do carpentry you will never have carpentry skills. I like that system. You only have one character and theoretically it could learn everything. People either tend to specialize in something they love and not do a lot of other things, or they become generalists that can do many things pretty well, but, nothing fantastic. That is where the best builders (who have to know all of the building crafts) make a lot of money building homes, inns, guild halls, etc. Right now I’m happy if I sell a bunch of things for an average of 10 coin and make 1000 coin. I know some of what the builders sell is for more like 30,000 - 60,000 or more coin. I think I remember one the best builders I know sold for 125,000 coin (plus the buyer supplied the materials) and then he made a lot of furnishings for them too. Someday maybe I’ll get there. He could sell the blueprints, but, he makes far more by just building for non-builders who don’t want to purchase the buildings from the cash store or can’t afford it (they can be $75 or $50 on sale or so for smaller buildings to over $1,000 for major buildings if I remember correctly). So, I do know the blueprint model works as well as the skills based on actual use of a skill rather than a level of character and skill points.
I think you’re forgetting the most expensive commodity that players have… time.
Not all players have an equal amount of it. Players need to see that the time investment that they do get to play, is spent doing, at least in some part, the thing that they enjoy the most about the game. Spending coin is a way to do that, so whilst in some part I do agree that you technically don’t need any coin to build, when you factor it against available time to play, and actually spend doing an aspect of the game you enjoy, then I say it’s an absolute must.
Well, it kind of does… players can compete to be the leader of a settlement, and of the whole planet. It’s an intrinsic part of the game - it’s a part that some players enjoy, beyond the other professions/play styles.
If creativity is the same as art… I’ve definitely mentioned both art and income in the same post
The fundamental difference here, is that building produces no by-product that can be sold. Both hunting and mining, by their very nature, create a usable resource that can either be used by that player to create something else, or be transported anywhere in the universe and sold to another player. Building does not have that same transportability… it’s a service, not a product.
I do like the idea of blueprints as well… I’m just worried that they’re not a viable, sustainable source of income to a building focused player.
…and it’s really not about “a money game”… it’s about creating equal opportunity for each play style to be able to earn coin (seeing as we already earn XP from all of these things) from what they enjoy doing … even if some - and I won’t speculate on what percentage of the player base that is - don’t want or need coin.
Curiously though… quite a lot of builders jumped at the chance to enter this…
I jumped at that one - because i want gleam haha. Didn’t build for first place, did it mainly in natural blocks because I have the need to like the look of what I build more than I need it to be the highest prestige thing… Also, this is a competition, but the criteria are different than for the base game - it’s player-driven and requires a semi-functional build; rooms and kitchens and some awesome toilets that would never score you capital status but actually matters here.
@Creegle on a related note, If you’re planning on doing any art that is more natural / abandoned temple-like, we will have a spot for you on Vena (that’s like aggressively going against footfall lol) - I’m pretty sure I’ve met almost everyone that’s been on that planet for more than 15 mins at a time
Yes @Creegle I have one old place on one side of Vena V and another I just recently started on the other side. in a gorgeous community. If I remember right off the top of my head, the community is at -1,050, +1,050 and roughly 95 for Elevation for the upper folks. I always loved Vena V largely because it’s the least populated and as a result the most beautiful. Now if I only had the skill to fit in well. Oh well, I’m learning building a little bit most days.
while no @Stretchious creativity and art are absolutely not the same
with creativity you can solve problems and/or link/put together things others wouldn’t, with aestethic sense you can make something pretty or amazing, art is more related to a form of expression that moves on various and different layers
also i have no doubt @ElfMarine is right: basically you don’t need coins to play… but as stretchious say: with coins you go faster
Surely footfall is an inconsistent reveniew but the system doesn’t work in the moment that someone who chose to buil a house in the middle of nowhere, with only nothing as neighbour, will never get a single coin. the system should give an inconsistent reveniew TO EVERYBODY.
and let’s study a good system to put up a nice “wanna be mayor” fight, based on prestige etc.
But why if i don’t care about mayor competition and go living in the jungle, then i have no access to an even small reveniew? it can be based on prestige, have a cap of X per day that you reach with Y prestige
so you will get indipendently from where your house is placed a reveniew based on your prestige and maxable by anyone. Still having a high(er) prestige will be part of the Mayor competition (or just part of the fun that person is having while building)
BP: i don’t like blueprints of buildings idea.
you like a building? go there, study it, try to copy, learn your way. you don’t want to do it? ask someone who will do it for you and pay him.
so the last one is: we want contracts!
@Creegle this is what heavily annoys me as a builder in training if you can see it that way? -
I love art… and a lot of people say i am very good at art… which is why i try to build in game myself but… most of you sho9uld have seen my various screenshots over the months… how bad do i suck at it? and this is one massive let down and embarrasment that shames me greatly!!
@Barneylee57 Ah I have three sapphire mines and a sapphire mine is a bit of a joke among miners. Its a small hill that you clear in about 3 minutes. I could expand I suppose. I am not hurting for coal though, I buy in blast shards and pies mostly.
So let’s look at this then. You are complaining about end game building because you can’t make the same money they do. That’s what it boils down to. You don’t want to gather, I get that, I don’t care much for crafting so I don’t craft a lot. I like gathering so I do that. Builders like building, so they should be able to make money from it.
Stopping builders earning is not a solution for you to make better endgame revenue. Let’s keep thinking outside the box here. (I notice you did that in subsequent posts kudos)
Stopping builders earning is not the right course of action for the game. There is not a benefit at all to it. So yeah contracts and bluebrints or something that sells would be needed to replace footfall. How much would this really sell though?
I don’t know. Blueprints sure, if they were one use items would sell, I am not so sure contracts would be done a lot, just in special cases.
how bluprints would be an income, as once you unerstand how to make something you can reproduce it without limits? do we really want to make a complete set of skill for builders to use chisels, bevels and block plcement? that would be terrible as building is also one of the most relaxing things an i do not want to be limited on it because of skills… plus in this way even once you have the BP you should have those skills, wich put you in conditions of not needing the BP…
while with just building contracts you may ask somebody to come and develop a concept based on what you would like and follow the process, or ask someone to help you building and build together
as @Stretchious said: building is a service, not a product
the best builder will be considered the best not for his bluprint, but for example for the ideas that comes in his mind with inputs, his ability to reach client satisfaction
You must be a good builder. - I am an average one at best. The really nice looking cobblestone houses some people think are easy, are a great skill to have.
Imagine a showroom of buildings and designs, fountains and trees. With the Blueprints for these on a stand next to them. You buy one you get a copy of their work you can reuse once. Not infinitely as this would quickly flood the market. Instead single use, that’d be a great thing for builders. They don’t need to restock a shop, (only BP’s which could be cheap to craft), instead they can focus on what they loving doing building/art.
Other players get the benefit of these works of art in their settlement.
Now let’s look at contracts. You might know someone by reputation maybe. Maybe they have the time, maybe they don’t. You have to find and contact them and all you want is a well shaped tree. Can they be bothered? Maybe, maybe not. Do you see what I am saying? Some builders will come by and do that tree next week for you, while with the BP I can do it myself, that’s the benefit and I can do it immediately. - Before anyone scoffs at making trees, it’s not that easy to make a good looking one for an average builder
The other thing about contracts is, how do I describe exactly what I want, I can’t. So I can end up paying for something I don’t want.
Contracts are just not going to be regular enough income to replace footfall, not by a long stretch,
I have no issue with Contracts and Blueprints being added to the game. However, I do not think that there is sufficient demand to provide revenue for everyone that wants to build. I agree with @Stretchious that I have not seen very many instances of people wanted someone to build something for them. The other issue I have is, what is the revenue stream for an average or below average builder? If you are not a great builder then there is no demand for your blueprints or someone wanting you to build something for you, therefore you get no revenue. If I am an average Miner, or Hunter, I am still collecting resources that have the same value no matter who produces them. Medium Coal is Medium Coal. I may take longer to collect resources or be doing it on a Tier 1 versus a Tier 3 and get fewer drops, but I still produce a resource that is exactly the same as the resource produced by someone else. That is not the case with building. There are quite a few people that are much better at building than I am. However, I still want to build and I do at times need to buy things to speed the process along. To do this I need coin and would like there to be a way to be rewarded for Building that was quantitative and not qualitative.
I agree with this:
mmm… i see… a builder that doesn’t come to build…? how’s that even called a builder?
i’m an architect in real life, BP has more to do with designers, they make a design that can be then produced and re-produced infinite time and he gets a % for each copy of it’s design as long as it is asked by the market… so if a design isn’t sold anymore, the designer doesn’t get anymore coins
builders do buildings
designer do designs
you may have a builder that is able to make good projects
or a designer that also builds
but the two things are 2 different field of work
for the builder you need contracts
for designer you need a “shop” where you sell your projects (BP)
Point well taken I am grouchy this morning. Apologies if its coming off as short sighted.
Yes a builder that doesn’t feel like building is a silly concept
However designers then would be a different playstyle almost, and attract a different type of player? A good thing I think. The availability of designs was something I appreciated in second life for example and there, buying designs was much more common than hiring builders though both happened.
np dude, i think we reached a good point together
I am thinking of unique solutions to this issue. I wanted to explore the core motivation for most gamers to continue to patronize an MMO product. One motivation has to be name recognition. I would surmise that even below the need for coin and great artistic structures and utilitarian communal designs, there is a drive to be known. The developers are wise to focus on long-term customer retention so that word-of-mouth over time drives volume. This leads me to an idea. Imagine if, as a builder, you could be sponsored by other players, perhaps a maximum of, say, 5 sponsors. The framework of this would essentially be that as a player wondered onto your property, they would have a UI module or perhaps an interactive beacon which would allow them to become your sponsor (you, as a sponsor, could only ever sponsor, say, 5, persons simultaneously.) As your sponsor, a percent, say half a percent (.0005), of their cumulative coin would daily go to the builder(s) they have sponsored. In turn, their NAME would go on the property under the owner as “sponsor.” This gives name recognition as a reward and is exclusive, as only a select few can sponsor a build (the exclusivity of sponsorship would promote dispersion to wide-spread sponsorship of lesser-tier builds, which would, in turn, incentivize “lesser builders” to continue to work toward greater sponsorship.) To me, this proposal would benefit both parties involved. The builder gets funds to go bigger and better manage time and the sponsor gets their name attached to the build(s)/builders that they are passionate to support and/or be associated with. (Of course, the builder would always have the option to approve or deny a request for sponsorship in the case that he/she is a lone duck.)
You got the big problem with footfall right. It does not reward art whatsoever. It rewards plots in cities especially plots in cities with portals to several other cities. It can be a plain block or it can be some shop stands and request baskets sitting on the ground with no structure as long as it’s in a high traffic spot preferably with lots of portals to cities. Just to have income from prestige claim the two plots straight down and fill them solid with high grade materials. You now have a lot of prestige to go with your shop stands and request baskets. That isn’t art. It’s a prime location filled with junk. But, you get lots of prestige and lots of footfall. Meanwhile, the best artist in Boundless may hate cities and makes glorious sculptures, Oortion replicas of ancient earth Greek and Roman temples, great sand paintings when seen from high above, etc. that are art… looks amazing but has no function beyond being art and all out in deserts. They will get prestige and some will meet the minimum for getting footfall. However, actual footfall will be few and far between (I know as my main places have been in the desert receiving zero footfall from others until recently when several neighbors moved in within a mile or two and started passing through now and then). The best artist if lucky will make 100 coin per month from footfall because they didn’t play the money game and just fill a couple blocks with high traffic things. Meanwhile the one that played the money game showing creativity at how to get footfall totally lacks artistic ability but makes lots of coin per week from footfall in their high traffic area even if their goods for sale are all ridiculously priced and they never make a sale. That is our current system. For the future, have enough high prestige plots underground and filled with high quality junk of no use other than prestige gain and now you are mayor and get tax revenue too. Do that with enough plots in several cities and you also are Viceroy or whatever it’s called getting that tax too (note… everyone should be limited to one tax receiving position if people are going to get tax income). It’s silly when looked at from an artist versus a money game player. Great art rarely has a function other than pleasing people’s eyes or stimulating positive emotions and only will be rewarded if it happens to have a portal hub too on it that detracts from the artistic value. I’m all for getting rid of the prestige game and the footfall. Go ahead and use the prestige for a daily bonus that has a maximum cap and people really wanting money can then sell something useful to others at fair prices for income above and beyond the daily bonus for building something. Don’t use it for determining mayor or Viceroy. If the developers see a function for mayors and viceroys other than just being tax recipients but something of actual help to people then have a vote of all citizens of their area once every one, two, or three months on the 1st of the month or whatever date for residents that date and time. One vote per player or one vote per character that is a citizen. Say the mayor is supposed to purchase supplies for starving artists with the tax revenue and they don’t do it. They will be voted out as mayor regardless of their plot prestige. If they are selfless and help all their citizens in need then they will be re-elected. On a PvP planet, or, anywhere with titans etc. to defend against and hunt down then if they can’t plan a defense or can’t organize a hunt they will be voted out. Plot prestige does nothing for selecting a good public official. We see that on earth. Multi-millionaires win elections easily and are horrible leaders and lose wars overriding military professionals while often causing high unemployment and destroying economies with their lack of knowledge. Con artists start poor but get the backing of some rich people and get elected to make less than $200,000 per year. In two to five years their assets will go up $8,000,000, $20,000,000 or maybe even $800,000,000 with that income of less than $200,000 per year as they suck the life out of the government with their incompetence and bleed the taxpayers dry (while saying the right things and hanging out with cool celebrities for popularity). In real life we reward those with access to money with positions that they can use to make a ton of money without any intelligence or ability to conduct business or lead anything as all they have done usually is be politicians. The footfall and prestige for mayor appear to imitate that failed system pretty well. Lets reward the artists starving in the desert. Lets reward good leaders with positions of responsibility where they can help fellow citizens and take away that position if they don’t help but instead merely profit from the position. Be creative folks! Come up with how to make daily bonuses or whatever that reward building art rather than gaining high traffic. If people want high traffic for income then make a good shop people come to and you will make good money off the sales from that footfall. Make a system where people in leadership do things to help the citizens and help the starving artists or they lose their position. The system as is just looks like a system to reward those who make prestige blocks and creatively place them in spots that will have a lot of feet cross over them.
I actually agree about the blueprints in a way. I take pictures of things I like inside and out so I can try and copy. Blueprints make it simpler, but, my main objective was to satisfy builders in their desire for income since they don’t seem to want to hire themselves out to build for other people. They said they have no product (they do… their product is their skill and the structures people buy from them but they want to retain ownership for the prestige and footfall rewards). So, I gave them another product with blueprints since it works very well in some games. They insist only the footfall works because they already mastered that game and know how to win it thus getting the rewards for footfall and prestige with or without an artistic bone in their body. They are creative though in getting footfall and prestige. lol