Feedback: Rewards, long-term Monetisation and the Exchange!


#282

@james i love the blueprint idea… and without stepping on anyone… maybe you could have it work like (title ommited :stuck_out_tongue: ); where you can see the ghost of the blureprint… and it tellls you where to place certain blocks? and then onece finished maybe have the blueprint reward you itself (you just built a 20 plot BP… gratz… here is 2k coins!!!.. oh you just built a 50 plot bp??? here have 50k!) and so on? But make that blueprint reward only once? (as in you can built it as often as you want, but it only rewards you the first time?)


#283

i must have been going to he wrong shops! (or they are not around the main hubs)


#284

The reason why most of us don’t make that is most people play rather than make money. Never sold anything ever and never tried to. lol Not in Boundless for an economics game. My undergrad degree was in Business Administration, been an auditor, been a bank manager among other businesses managed and have owned businesses. Trying to make money in a game is a boring idea to me compared to real life and just makes the game work rather than fun. Maybe before real life experiences I might have been interested. I used to play many economic games, but, only before the days of Windows being made (so obviously all DOS games) with the exception of one or two I played a little for testing on my BBS and network I owned. Those were boring, but, to figure out if I had fixed programming problems I needed to play. The DOS ones were mostly ones we used in my Business degree program or in Series 7 license training. Most of us our main source of income (and more than enough) is the daily and weekly bonuses. Never used a gem tool as haven’t ever tried mining a gem. When I do it’s likely just to make advanced power coils for personal use.


#285

but what i cant seem to understand… is how do you remain self-sufficient without earning anything apart from weeklies/dailies? O.o @ElfMarine

And @Karrade - i am always in need of Sapphire Grapples (personal use and addictions being what they are :wink: ) maybe i could sort a coal/ metal ore trade in return? :wink:


#286

Not hard. I am in no hurry to get to the hardest things. I just take my time doing whatever I feel like at the moment. I make sure I always have coal and iron available to make iron slingbows and tools. When I get under six of something left then I have my crafter mass craft another 10. Never used anything higher than iron. Never mined a gem. Don’t have advanced power coils so I can’t make anything that uses power. Food, I made 900 steaks a few times (before that I guess I made cherries a few times) and other than that my hunter makes food that I don’t use usually and just put on a shelf just to add to the number of recipes he has made. I don’t remember ever buying anything so the only use I have for money is to travel and each of my three characters has about 70,000 coin built up after travel expenses from bonuses. Money isn’t needed if you aren’t in a hurry and just take your time doing everything yourself. I haven’t built any portals so my oortstones from meteors are slowly building too. Some day when I feel like using them up I guess I’ll make a portal or two or three maybe. Life is only as difficult as you choose to make it in Boundless. Take things easy and enjoy the ride and the whole thing is simple. I just complicate things by doing too many things at once sometimes. Right now I have been working on four building projects rather cluelessly. I keep having to take breaks though to go gather more resources or just to go explore. I’ll get there. Reminds me I want to finish adding machines on Vulpto too. Need to spend more time there probably and also probably should someday go look for gems, gold, silver, etc. but I have a long list of things to do including exploring all the planets. Oh, you mentioned grapples too. I have made them and once was given some. I never have used them though as I don’t know how and they aren’t in the tutorial. No big deal. I find ways to get anywhere I want to go without using grapples.


#287

I tried going the vendor route because I thought one had to do this to make end-game type money. What I discovered is that much like @ElfMarine, I have no interest in playing a money game. I am a builder. I only wanted to make money so that I could make larger and more impressive builds, not for profit or gain, but for art. I want to be known as an artist. Period. That is what Boundless is to me. The problem is that I have to fund my artistic endeavors, therefore, I am in full support of increased revenue from building related activities.
I was toying with an idea that, in addition to footfall revenue, perhaps one’s daily bonus coin could be directly related to his prestige × footfall ÷ plots so that even the solo player who is doing a large plot, modest build would get daily commensurate coin based on his or her building efforts. The reward is still an internal influence and would further keep a player such as myself from having to run a shop to sustain their art.


#288

So my curiosity is in the fact people think they need money in order to build???

As Creegle just pointed out he made a shop in order to fund his building.

I built my builds and town without ever buying anything or talking to anyone it was after I did most of my building that I created a shop and got into this aspect of the game… I have found that building requires zero money at all… and its very easy to be self sufficient unless your being lazy and buying mats or machines or what have you, there is no reason you need money to build anything… To me the Economy and the Shops are all end game content that revolve around Fancy Food and Brews and Power Coils and Portals…

Hunting feels like end game and the Gem Weapons feel like end game, and the Power coils feel like end game like a circle that feeds itself… Hunters Kill Mobs at meteor loot oort and gems so power coils can make them food and buff so they can kill more mobs so they can get more gems so they can make more slingbows to get more gems to get more oort to fund more portals…

Dont get me wrong I enjoy the end game its just that none of that has anything to do with building… Unless you want to build a house out of compact Gems or something?!? Most of the endgame really has nothing to do with building as much as everything to do with food and brews and power coils…


#289

I said art. Which means limitless resources of oftentimes high value and worth. Look at my builds, I have expensive taste. I like color. This is not cheap, but more to the point, I am considering some future builds I have in mind, and the investment involved. I have and will farm it all and craft it all, but the purpose of my shop was to exponentially increase my efficiency by way of time/cost investment. All in all, it turns into a money game for an artist.


#290

Maybe for you. That is not how my endgame looks. I have all that stuff and it’s all empty compared to my vision for future projects.


#291

I simply skip the trying to make money idea. I do whatever I need to in order to do whatever it is of interest at the moment. Right now I’m building three structures and a road plus slowly upgrading the materials I used to make what is my main place in the desert at the moment (an ugly box perhaps I can figure out what to do with). I’m learning a bit building in the meantime. I just have no interest in managing a business. Done enough of that in my real life and retired now (other than my art… writing a novel and a bit of consulting I do free for a few people). Doing business in a game is boring and far more interesting to just do it all myself. No idea what I’m doing building, but, mistakes are how we learn (especially since we are only in the testing phase). It’s enjoyable and money really isn’t necessary unless you pressure yourself to do things faster.

I have always liked your attitude @Creegle as you tend to relax more than some that just seem to want a competition (which always makes me wonder why they are in Boundless that doesn’t have a competition, an end game, or winners to me). Build forever, hunt forever, wander forever as we will be having a ton of planets to explore. There is no end unless you are tired of the game and then you make whatever you want to consider an end. If life is too easy then just start a new character (deleting one if necessary) and begin a new adventure. Builders always talking about money never seem to mention art. They really just see building as an interesting way to make a lot of money especially if they can get as much income as possible and being the mayor or whatever receiving taxes is a pretty easy way to make a lot of money thus the competition. You seem more like an actual artist rather than an opportunist with building as the means to wealth. That’s my kind of person. :slight_smile:


#292

I skimmed through things and saw something about blueprints.

If I could blueprint where I want to put blocks, what is chiseled, etc. and then click a button to apply it on the area I am gonna build in, that would be cool. It would pull all the blocks and use all the durability from tools that it would take to build out whatever the structure or space is.

I think that would make building stuff even more amazing and have some quality of life improvements towards it.

It would also be a good way to see how something is going to look before you actually place the blocks in the game. Sort of would double as a planner too.

Just a thought I guess. I do like the possibilities of some kind of blueprint idea. :slight_smile:


#293

I like the idea of daily bonuses for amount of what you have built (preferably without prestige as that encourages things like a gold egg in a building just to increase prestige and make more money or fill a room full of gems or whatever for prestige points). That encourages builders to keep on building as long as they like and can keep the beacons fueled to keep the plots. It allows those who are artists to be artists rather than seeking prestige points. Make a different method of selecting mayors etc. or get rid of monetary rewards for being mayor etc. I suspect that would get rid of a lot of the competition right there for building prestige supremacy. Footfall I really don’t like though. That to me just forces a competition to have the best plots available in cities to get high traffic like on common routes into Therka Market or in the market. It doesn’t do a thing for an artist who may make a shipwreck in the middle of the desert, a duck, a hot air balloon, etc. as it won’t get a lot of footfall so won’t generate a bunch of money. If you want any decent money from footfall you basically have to get into a town or city. I would prefer the building bonus to be a daily bonus based on what you have built rather than where you have built. A shop needs high traffic. Art does not. A shop should make money based on what it sells at what price rather than footfall. Art should definitely not need footfall if it is to be equal with other building. I guess that’s why whenever builders talk about how they want money given to them I immediatly think of them as businessmen who want to do the building part of a construction business and get paid without selling what they made or selling their services. It’s silly to me. Hunters don’t get paid just for hunting… they have to make a shop and craft or otherwise sell what they got from hunting, miners don’t make money from mining, they have to sell their product before or after crafting. Builders shouldn’t make money just from building as long as hunters and miners don’t make money just from those activities. Artists in real life who don’t sell their art? It’s called homeless or on welfare or simply starving artist. So, for those who don’t want to ever sell whatever their occupation then make an income in the bonuses that isn’t dependent on selling and fair to all. Or, make it easier and more common for builders to be able to sell their services or products (buildings). Or realize that builders are the only ones that will be able to collect taxes and therefor are already going to be highly paid if they build enough in one location as a reward.

Personally I’m for the daily bonus idea for building as well as blueprints. That gives a basic income for anyone who doesn’t want to play a money game. Those who want to play a money game are free to open shops or sell to shops to their heart’s content and be richer than the rest of us that don’t care about their money game. When I do look at shops for whatever reason I stay out of the big business ones other than to just compare. If looking to possibly buy something I look for small shops that I see might have what I’m looking for. Same in real life. I support small local stores as much as possible and avoid Amazon, Walmart or any big chain.


#294

The newest game by Lord British of Ultima fame has blueprints for everything. Some blueprints you can get from NPC vendors if you can find the right vendor. Those tend to be for low to medium difficulty in things like blacksmithing, carpentry, cooking, tailor, etc. Others you can find in drops or from trainers, or discover with experimentation. A few high end things might be available in the cash shop… not sure. Those you find in drops, discover experimenting, or even buy from NPC’s or other players tend to be sellable. So, once you know a blueprint you can sell it. You don’t just automatically learn recipes by leveling. Skill points just build up for you to spend based on what you do. If you ever cook you will never have cooking skills. If you never do carpentry you will never have carpentry skills. I like that system. You only have one character and theoretically it could learn everything. People either tend to specialize in something they love and not do a lot of other things, or they become generalists that can do many things pretty well, but, nothing fantastic. That is where the best builders (who have to know all of the building crafts) make a lot of money building homes, inns, guild halls, etc. Right now I’m happy if I sell a bunch of things for an average of 10 coin and make 1000 coin. I know some of what the builders sell is for more like 30,000 - 60,000 or more coin. I think I remember one the best builders I know sold for 125,000 coin (plus the buyer supplied the materials) and then he made a lot of furnishings for them too. Someday maybe I’ll get there. He could sell the blueprints, but, he makes far more by just building for non-builders who don’t want to purchase the buildings from the cash store or can’t afford it (they can be $75 or $50 on sale or so for smaller buildings to over $1,000 for major buildings if I remember correctly). So, I do know the blueprint model works as well as the skills based on actual use of a skill rather than a level of character and skill points.


#295

I think you’re forgetting the most expensive commodity that players have… time.

Not all players have an equal amount of it. Players need to see that the time investment that they do get to play, is spent doing, at least in some part, the thing that they enjoy the most about the game. Spending coin is a way to do that, so whilst in some part I do agree that you technically don’t need any coin to build, when you factor it against available time to play, and actually spend doing an aspect of the game you enjoy, then I say it’s an absolute must.

Well, it kind of does… players can compete to be the leader of a settlement, and of the whole planet. It’s an intrinsic part of the game - it’s a part that some players enjoy, beyond the other professions/play styles.

If creativity is the same as art… I’ve definitely mentioned both art and income in the same post :wink:

The fundamental difference here, is that building produces no by-product that can be sold. Both hunting and mining, by their very nature, create a usable resource that can either be used by that player to create something else, or be transported anywhere in the universe and sold to another player. Building does not have that same transportability… it’s a service, not a product.

I do like the idea of blueprints as well… I’m just worried that they’re not a viable, sustainable source of income to a building focused player.

…and it’s really not about “a money game”… it’s about creating equal opportunity for each play style to be able to earn coin (seeing as we already earn XP from all of these things) from what they enjoy doing … even if some - and I won’t speculate on what percentage of the player base that is - don’t want or need coin.


Curiously though… quite a lot of builders jumped at the chance to enter this…


#296

I jumped at that one - because i want gleam haha. Didn’t build for first place, did it mainly in natural blocks because I have the need to like the look of what I build more than I need it to be the highest prestige thing… Also, this is a competition, but the criteria are different than for the base game - it’s player-driven and requires a semi-functional build; rooms and kitchens and some awesome toilets that would never score you capital status but actually matters here.

@Creegle on a related note, If you’re planning on doing any art that is more natural / abandoned temple-like, we will have a spot for you on Vena (that’s like aggressively going against footfall lol) - I’m pretty sure I’ve met almost everyone that’s been on that planet for more than 15 mins at a time :rofl:


#297

Yes @Creegle I have one old place on one side of Vena V and another I just recently started on the other side. in a gorgeous community. If I remember right off the top of my head, the community is at -1,050, +1,050 and roughly 95 for Elevation for the upper folks. I always loved Vena V largely because it’s the least populated and as a result the most beautiful. Now if I only had the skill to fit in well. Oh well, I’m learning building a little bit most days. :thinking:


#298

I am starting to think that @Xaldafax and @Karko are right

while no @Stretchious creativity and art are absolutely not the same :stuck_out_tongue:
with creativity you can solve problems and/or link/put together things others wouldn’t, with aestethic sense you can make something pretty or amazing, art is more related to a form of expression that moves on various and different layers

also i have no doubt @ElfMarine is right: basically you don’t need coins to play… but as stretchious say: with coins you go faster

Surely footfall is an inconsistent reveniew but the system doesn’t work in the moment that someone who chose to buil a house in the middle of nowhere, with only nothing as neighbour, will never get a single coin. the system should give an inconsistent reveniew TO EVERYBODY.
and let’s study a good system to put up a nice “wanna be mayor” fight, based on prestige etc.

But why if i don’t care about mayor competition and go living in the jungle, then i have no access to an even small reveniew? it can be based on prestige, have a cap of X per day that you reach with Y prestige
so you will get indipendently from where your house is placed a reveniew based on your prestige and maxable by anyone. Still having a high(er) prestige will be part of the Mayor competition (or just part of the fun that person is having while building)

BP: i don’t like blueprints of buildings idea.
you like a building? go there, study it, try to copy, learn your way. you don’t want to do it? ask someone who will do it for you and pay him.

so the last one is: we want contracts! :stuck_out_tongue:


#299

@Creegle this is what heavily annoys me as a builder in training if you can see it that way? -

I love art… and a lot of people say i am very good at art… which is why i try to build in game myself but… most of you sho9uld have seen my various screenshots over the months… how bad do i suck at it? and this is one massive let down and embarrasment that shames me greatly!!


#300

@Barneylee57 Ah I have three sapphire mines and a sapphire mine is a bit of a joke among miners. Its a small hill that you clear in about 3 minutes. I could expand I suppose. I am not hurting for coal though, I buy in blast shards and pies mostly.

@ElfMarine
So let’s look at this then. You are complaining about end game building because you can’t make the same money they do. That’s what it boils down to. You don’t want to gather, I get that, I don’t care much for crafting so I don’t craft a lot. I like gathering so I do that. Builders like building, so they should be able to make money from it.

Stopping builders earning is not a solution for you to make better endgame revenue. Let’s keep thinking outside the box here. (I notice you did that in subsequent posts kudos)


#301

Stopping builders earning is not the right course of action for the game. There is not a benefit at all to it. So yeah contracts and bluebrints or something that sells would be needed to replace footfall. How much would this really sell though?

I don’t know. Blueprints sure, if they were one use items would sell, I am not so sure contracts would be done a lot, just in special cases.