Feedback: Rewards, long-term Monetisation and the Exchange!


#302

how bluprints would be an income, as once you unerstand how to make something you can reproduce it without limits? do we really want to make a complete set of skill for builders to use chisels, bevels and block plcement? that would be terrible as building is also one of the most relaxing things an i do not want to be limited on it because of skills… plus in this way even once you have the BP you should have those skills, wich put you in conditions of not needing the BP…

while with just building contracts you may ask somebody to come and develop a concept based on what you would like and follow the process, or ask someone to help you building and build together

as @Stretchious said: building is a service, not a product

the best builder will be considered the best not for his bluprint, but for example for the ideas that comes in his mind with inputs, his ability to reach client satisfaction


#303

You must be a good builder. - I am an average one at best. The really nice looking cobblestone houses some people think are easy, are a great skill to have.

Imagine a showroom of buildings and designs, fountains and trees. With the Blueprints for these on a stand next to them. You buy one you get a copy of their work you can reuse once. Not infinitely as this would quickly flood the market. Instead single use, that’d be a great thing for builders. They don’t need to restock a shop, (only BP’s which could be cheap to craft), instead they can focus on what they loving doing building/art.

Other players get the benefit of these works of art in their settlement.

Now let’s look at contracts. You might know someone by reputation maybe. Maybe they have the time, maybe they don’t. You have to find and contact them and all you want is a well shaped tree. Can they be bothered? Maybe, maybe not. Do you see what I am saying? Some builders will come by and do that tree next week for you, while with the BP I can do it myself, that’s the benefit and I can do it immediately. - Before anyone scoffs at making trees, it’s not that easy to make a good looking one for an average builder :stuck_out_tongue:

The other thing about contracts is, how do I describe exactly what I want, I can’t. So I can end up paying for something I don’t want.

Contracts are just not going to be regular enough income to replace footfall, not by a long stretch,


#304

I have no issue with Contracts and Blueprints being added to the game. However, I do not think that there is sufficient demand to provide revenue for everyone that wants to build. I agree with @Stretchious that I have not seen very many instances of people wanted someone to build something for them. The other issue I have is, what is the revenue stream for an average or below average builder? If you are not a great builder then there is no demand for your blueprints or someone wanting you to build something for you, therefore you get no revenue. If I am an average Miner, or Hunter, I am still collecting resources that have the same value no matter who produces them. Medium Coal is Medium Coal. I may take longer to collect resources or be doing it on a Tier 1 versus a Tier 3 and get fewer drops, but I still produce a resource that is exactly the same as the resource produced by someone else. That is not the case with building. There are quite a few people that are much better at building than I am. However, I still want to build and I do at times need to buy things to speed the process along. To do this I need coin and would like there to be a way to be rewarded for Building that was quantitative and not qualitative.

I agree with this:


#305

mmm… i see… a builder that doesn’t come to build…? how’s that even called a builder? :joy:

i’m an architect in real life, BP has more to do with designers, they make a design that can be then produced and re-produced infinite time and he gets a % for each copy of it’s design as long as it is asked by the market… so if a design isn’t sold anymore, the designer doesn’t get anymore coins

builders do buildings
designer do designs

you may have a builder that is able to make good projects
or a designer that also builds

but the two things are 2 different field of work

for the builder you need contracts
for designer you need a “shop” where you sell your projects (BP)


#306

Point well taken I am grouchy this morning. Apologies if its coming off as short sighted.

Yes a builder that doesn’t feel like building is a silly concept :smiley:

However designers then would be a different playstyle almost, and attract a different type of player? A good thing I think. The availability of designs was something I appreciated in second life for example and there, buying designs was much more common than hiring builders though both happened.


#307

np dude, i think we reached a good point together :wink:


#308

I am thinking of unique solutions to this issue. I wanted to explore the core motivation for most gamers to continue to patronize an MMO product. One motivation has to be name recognition. I would surmise that even below the need for coin and great artistic structures and utilitarian communal designs, there is a drive to be known. The developers are wise to focus on long-term customer retention so that word-of-mouth over time drives volume. This leads me to an idea. Imagine if, as a builder, you could be sponsored by other players, perhaps a maximum of, say, 5 sponsors. The framework of this would essentially be that as a player wondered onto your property, they would have a UI module or perhaps an interactive beacon which would allow them to become your sponsor (you, as a sponsor, could only ever sponsor, say, 5, persons simultaneously.) As your sponsor, a percent, say half a percent (.0005), of their cumulative coin would daily go to the builder(s) they have sponsored. In turn, their NAME would go on the property under the owner as “sponsor.” This gives name recognition as a reward and is exclusive, as only a select few can sponsor a build (the exclusivity of sponsorship would promote dispersion to wide-spread sponsorship of lesser-tier builds, which would, in turn, incentivize “lesser builders” to continue to work toward greater sponsorship.) To me, this proposal would benefit both parties involved. The builder gets funds to go bigger and better manage time and the sponsor gets their name attached to the build(s)/builders that they are passionate to support and/or be associated with. (Of course, the builder would always have the option to approve or deny a request for sponsorship in the case that he/she is a lone duck.)


#309

You got the big problem with footfall right. It does not reward art whatsoever. It rewards plots in cities especially plots in cities with portals to several other cities. It can be a plain block or it can be some shop stands and request baskets sitting on the ground with no structure as long as it’s in a high traffic spot preferably with lots of portals to cities. Just to have income from prestige claim the two plots straight down and fill them solid with high grade materials. You now have a lot of prestige to go with your shop stands and request baskets. That isn’t art. It’s a prime location filled with junk. But, you get lots of prestige and lots of footfall. Meanwhile, the best artist in Boundless may hate cities and makes glorious sculptures, Oortion replicas of ancient earth Greek and Roman temples, great sand paintings when seen from high above, etc. that are art… looks amazing but has no function beyond being art and all out in deserts. They will get prestige and some will meet the minimum for getting footfall. However, actual footfall will be few and far between (I know as my main places have been in the desert receiving zero footfall from others until recently when several neighbors moved in within a mile or two and started passing through now and then). The best artist if lucky will make 100 coin per month from footfall because they didn’t play the money game and just fill a couple blocks with high traffic things. Meanwhile the one that played the money game showing creativity at how to get footfall totally lacks artistic ability but makes lots of coin per week from footfall in their high traffic area even if their goods for sale are all ridiculously priced and they never make a sale. That is our current system. For the future, have enough high prestige plots underground and filled with high quality junk of no use other than prestige gain and now you are mayor and get tax revenue too. Do that with enough plots in several cities and you also are Viceroy or whatever it’s called getting that tax too (note… everyone should be limited to one tax receiving position if people are going to get tax income). It’s silly when looked at from an artist versus a money game player. Great art rarely has a function other than pleasing people’s eyes or stimulating positive emotions and only will be rewarded if it happens to have a portal hub too on it that detracts from the artistic value. I’m all for getting rid of the prestige game and the footfall. Go ahead and use the prestige for a daily bonus that has a maximum cap and people really wanting money can then sell something useful to others at fair prices for income above and beyond the daily bonus for building something. Don’t use it for determining mayor or Viceroy. If the developers see a function for mayors and viceroys other than just being tax recipients but something of actual help to people then have a vote of all citizens of their area once every one, two, or three months on the 1st of the month or whatever date for residents that date and time. One vote per player or one vote per character that is a citizen. Say the mayor is supposed to purchase supplies for starving artists with the tax revenue and they don’t do it. They will be voted out as mayor regardless of their plot prestige. If they are selfless and help all their citizens in need then they will be re-elected. On a PvP planet, or, anywhere with titans etc. to defend against and hunt down then if they can’t plan a defense or can’t organize a hunt they will be voted out. Plot prestige does nothing for selecting a good public official. We see that on earth. Multi-millionaires win elections easily and are horrible leaders and lose wars overriding military professionals while often causing high unemployment and destroying economies with their lack of knowledge. Con artists start poor but get the backing of some rich people and get elected to make less than $200,000 per year. In two to five years their assets will go up $8,000,000, $20,000,000 or maybe even $800,000,000 with that income of less than $200,000 per year as they suck the life out of the government with their incompetence and bleed the taxpayers dry (while saying the right things and hanging out with cool celebrities for popularity). In real life we reward those with access to money with positions that they can use to make a ton of money without any intelligence or ability to conduct business or lead anything as all they have done usually is be politicians. The footfall and prestige for mayor appear to imitate that failed system pretty well. Lets reward the artists starving in the desert. Lets reward good leaders with positions of responsibility where they can help fellow citizens and take away that position if they don’t help but instead merely profit from the position. Be creative folks! Come up with how to make daily bonuses or whatever that reward building art rather than gaining high traffic. If people want high traffic for income then make a good shop people come to and you will make good money off the sales from that footfall. Make a system where people in leadership do things to help the citizens and help the starving artists or they lose their position. The system as is just looks like a system to reward those who make prestige blocks and creatively place them in spots that will have a lot of feet cross over them.

I actually agree about the blueprints in a way. I take pictures of things I like inside and out so I can try and copy. Blueprints make it simpler, but, my main objective was to satisfy builders in their desire for income since they don’t seem to want to hire themselves out to build for other people. They said they have no product (they do… their product is their skill and the structures people buy from them but they want to retain ownership for the prestige and footfall rewards). So, I gave them another product with blueprints since it works very well in some games. They insist only the footfall works because they already mastered that game and know how to win it thus getting the rewards for footfall and prestige with or without an artistic bone in their body. They are creative though in getting footfall and prestige. lol


#310

Or in the case where the sponsor is a know duck :rofl:


#311

@Karrade nice offer… but i am meaning i am needing grapples to be created for me… i am not anywhere near currently (and doubt ever - if the current game mechanics of skills continue - which apparently they are changing?) the skills to be able to make my own… the reason i like these ones is because… one… i am falling to lava a long way oh damn, my iron will not shoot fast enough… wont reach! … ah… im dead yet again!!! never have this issue as often with gem grapples… just can not afford much often :slight_smile:


#312

I can’t keep up with this thread any more :frowning:

I need a Cliff Notes version. Or tl:dr :stuck_out_tongue:


#313

@ElfMarine your entire respone that surrounds this quote is probably the most thought provoking and wonderful thing I have read in these entire forums.


#314

i feel your pain and i might have part blame… this turned from a post to ask is monetization agreeable for this game… into how to earn enough coin for our classes/lives in game ^^


#315

You got me all wrong. I don’t care if anyone makes money in the game other than shopkeepers. I keep saying money is not necessary beyond a tiny bit in bonuses to travel with. If you want money than sell things… craft, gather, build and sell. If you don’t sell goods or services you shouldn’t be getting money other than bonuses for existing basically we already get. Personally, I have no interest in the money game. All I care about is doing things and money is not necessary for that. Money is simply a way to bypass things in the game you don’t prefer to do. Me? I prefer doing everything whether it’s my favorite activity or not (with the exception being I don’t care about making money so money can be removed from the game for all I care and probably make it a better game).

As for end game? I have said several times Boundless has no end game. Build, hunt, gather, explore forever. If it’s too easy delete your character and start a new adventure. There are no winners. There is no end. One day when you are bored then decide what the end for you is. Now you are in your end game while the rest of us continue on. When you complete your end game then go on to another game. I have helped on a few ideas for paying builders. Artists are more interested though than folks into the money game and most builders seem to be in it for money rather than art. Blueprints and rewarding building in daily bonuses ring any bells? It’s footfall and prestige I think reward all the wrong things and should be abolished. If you want income as a builder of things that are useful then the usefulness is it’s reward… such as a shop or a storage facility or a production facility or a home, etc. If you want to build things as an artist then the bonus idea works. Right now there is the tax scheme planned for builders to profit off of if they gain office too. Bottom line for me is if you care about money then do whatever to have a product people want and you will be paid whether mining, hunting, crafting, or building. So that starving artists can make enough to buy some supplies so they don’t have to mine or hunt or have a shop then there is the daily bonus idea. No, they won’t get wealthy, but, artists are in it for art rather than money so don’t need a lot. Besides, the bonuses can be raised until the developers think artists are receiving fair rewards regardless of where their art is built. Some day perhaps I’ll be interested in making money in Boundless. I doubt it, but, it’s possible. In the meantime though I would be happier if the only income people got was the daily and weekly bonuses we get (and I believe are more than we need already) and if you want more than find a product you like to make or gather and sell it at a fair price or hire yourself out to build for non-builders on their plots. Footfall just looks like a money game so people can make money for people passing by in high traffic areas. It has nothing to do with a love of building or being an artist or even making anything of value. Being in the path of where people travel to get to something is what matters the most. I think that’s silly.


#316

the most perfect answer… i only care about coin:

  • to feed my grapple addiction :stuck_out_tongue:
  • to buy health potions/food/exp food and tools which i cannot currently craft - for survival/gathering purposes etc…

i agree this game is becomeing more of a taxation/best build = most money game >.>


#317

I think the developers want to emphasize people being in communities versus the player that wants to do it alone. That is probably why they have the footfall and the tax linked to prestige. They probably believe that a large community of players will have more footfall due to traffic and more prestige due to more buildings. I think that as you and several other people have said, prestige can be manipulated by using the right kind of materials. That can skew the desired result (it is not a lot of people building, but one person building and gaming the system). Based on statements made, the developers are looking at tweaking the prestige calculations. But no matter what they do, I think someone will figure out how to game it.

I think we have to decide how we want to play the game and let others play the way they want to play. If we do not want to do what it takes to be the viceroy of a planet to get a cut on the taxes, we certainly do not have to. As you have said, there really is no win in Boundless. Everyone can decide for themselves if they are satisfied with what they have accomplished in the game. As long as there is a way for people to earn sufficient coin to allow them to play (needing coin to save time as an example), then should we worry about stuff like the Viceroy getting taxes or the small amount of income footfall generates?

If you think these things creates a break in the game that will damage the player economy, then that is an issue and it needs to be addressed.


#318

I would help you if I could. You seem to want gem grapples and high end foods. I have never made grapples higher than iron though and have never used them. Food I suspect you want high end things on that too. I’m just learning those. I have some copper and iron grapples and various foods (nothing I make requires power since I have never even looked for a gem) sitting on shelves. So, I doubt what I have helps you.


#319

i can easily make the low-ends myself (iron/copper) the only reason i go high-end iis due to the faster launches and etc… i can be very clumsy when mining :wink:


#320

How the people who have large piles of coin they are either sitting on or actively using got it by building up a plotted site for a city or shop and provided that location with value to other players. Typically that has been portals to other locations and those portals are free.

Aquatopia wouldn’t be where it is today without providing free portals to the general population of the game that visits the city. People wouldn’t be able to use Portal Seekers network. They wouldn’t be able to get to Gemporium. They wouldn’t be able to get to a lot of places that provide something of value to them for their coin.

So it’s less about who is the better builder but more about who is providing more value to someone else in the game. A better builder provides more value to someone else. A shop that can reliably keep prices fair and shop stands stocked up provides tremendous value to someone visiting it and wanting to buy that gem tool or some buff food.


#321

which is why i have my own portal (as a shortcut home mainly) which i dont intend to prestiege so that i receive no tax because i do not agree with it :wink: however some people are reccomending that i DO prestiege it - because i am offering the mine below my workshop for public use)

some people have certain priorities and as much as i accept that and agree that they should… just have a look at some *coin barrons who are sitting on mounds of it … doing nothing with it… certain people cant even spend it fast enough because they have so much :wink:


and just because i don’t want to put any skills in building, and am quite happy living in a box i am losing out… where is the fariness of that?

guess its time to make yet another al;t… and fight for the riches that building brings i guess :confused:


*he who has the most money… hold the most power… and absolute power corrupts absolutely… * (sorry i forgot this game isn’t supposed to be democratic )