Forge adjustments

Suggestions
1

Its been discussed many times about the forge rng.

My suggestion to reduce the rng effect, but still to give some amount of difficulty and planning would be to give the boons a ‘slot’ weight as well as a ‘gum’ weight.

On the forge screen, if we imagine the boon slots are numbered 1, 2 and 3 from the bottom.

As an example, let’s take everyone’s favourite special gum on a hammer.

Special gum adds weight to 2 boons, aoe and magnet.

What if slot 1 also added weight to aoe?

So if the gum adds 10 weight to each, slot 1 also adds 10 to aoe.

So aoe would be +20 weight, magnet +10 weight and the rest the same as always.

Slot 2 could add the extra weight to magnet rather than aoe.

If the gum has a 3rd boon it could be slot 3 weighted.

The slot weight would only be added when a gum was in use.

I hope that I am explaining my thoughts well enough to be understood.

Of course, I have not thought of every scenario, and this would just be the basics of the premise.

I’d leave the devs to fully develop it.

It would give the ability to be a little more targeted in approach, have the need to be a little more tactical in planning the forge and still leave a bunch of rng on there, cos apparently that has to be a thing!

3 Likes
2

Good suggestion. Too much rng as of right now in my opinion.

3 Likes
3

I definitely support any reduction of rng in the forge, though my opinion is that this idea would have to come alongside a better UI for communicating weighting. If this was an invisible thing, it would be added to the already unhealthy amount of arcane knowledge passed around between advanced players.
I do think this is a good direction to go. We need more control and more strategy.

3 Likes
4

Another forge adjustment I would like to see is being able to put a forged item back into a forge when it is getting ready to be broken (lost durability) and have it renewed back to what it was previously.

3 Likes
5

I like the suggestion, forging definitely needs more RNG mitigation/control, though it needs to be clear as well. Slot based feels arbitrary, especially if it’s fixed. Maybe if it’s randomized each forge attempt, and there’s indicator for each slot?

My various suggestions regarding forge and the RNG:

  • make gums more effective for each stack (so like, 1st gum is +3 weight, 2nd gum is +5 weight, and 3rd gum is +10 weight), potentially even guarantee it at something like 5 stacks…
  • add a way to decrease boon weight (allowing a possibility to 0% undesired boon entirely if the category is not gummed)
  • make various boons not exclusive to a single category (and potentially add more gums to accommodate for this). For example, AoE is both special and ease, while magnet is special and venerable. Using both special + ease gums will maximize my AoE chance, and magnet and energy saver will have decent chance but it’ll be lower than AoE. This needs careful balancing though or it’ll end up much worse than how it is already.
  • Add more centraforge slots. Personally, I feel like forging could benefit from 1-2 more ingredient slots. Sure, it’ll be easier, but imo it’ll allow room for more creativity/experiments, especially for less used ingredients that could’ve been situationally useful (solvents, fate reversal, barely used pastes, w/e).
  • Quirk gum. Please. Or even give each quirks a category and affected by gums.
  • I’m not sure if atm defects are affected by gum, but if it isn’t, maybe even defect gum, or also give defects the ability to be affected by gums. It’d be interesting to see people attempt a forging method by something like forcing crit defect.
  • Add a deconstruction resin 4 for 100% chance to return items, or add a new line of deconstruction resin where you’re guaranteed to get the items back at less quantity (deconst resin 3 is 75% chance to get 100% back, this new resin will be 100% chance to get 75% back), it’s frustrating to have resin proc on low value things like gums and not corrupted compounds.
2 Likes
6

So im pretty sure the answer is “but that will break all the currently forged items out there” while at the same time completely throwing out the fact that they could do the adjustment on the centraforge and not the tools.

But i would say for the love of god please change the way you get the aoe boon
Low Blow > Flanker’s Force > Cross Purposes > All-rounder

Fail: Random Acts

putting “Random Acts” as the highest boon just shows how much the devs hate the players, this is honestly a jerk move that deserves to be on a certain sub reddit im not sure i can quote.

2 Likes
7

While I understand why you want aoe boon to act this way, I’m not sure I would want that change.

Your suggestion would take at least 2 extra rounds (most of the time 3+) of compounds to hit all rounder, making it more difficult/costly to make.

1 Like
8

with in the context of the current system.

Yes, you are correct, but if suggesting changes then i’d also hope:

There should be a way to lower the number of rounds required to achieve the same results.
for example Power coils could contribute to filling those boons so we can get the desired results with less rounds, it could counters this issue in my suggestion and be a good way reward progression for players.

9

I think the easiest way to fix forging would be a simple addition of “guaranteed” boons. You want a +10 damage hammer, no problem, it’s going to cost a bunch of mats. Edit: a “guaranteed” boon is achieved by spending materials above and beyond what you would normally spend to make a paste or whatever. So maybe they cost vigor but don’t provoke defects or quirks. Just a guaranteed +1 damage level (or whatever you make) each time one is used. That way the system is kept largely intact.

This has a number of benefits:

  1. reduces over supply on a number of mats
  2. increases value of low and middle tier resources
  3. makes “perfect” forges possible with enough money/resource investment
  4. provides a risk vs reward component on traditional forging without breaking the normal forge system

Everyone would benefit from this.

10

Ask 9k tallow and 9k earthyams for guaranteed forges so these items get a purpose :smiley:

Regards

11

#bringbacktheoldforging

12

I honestly wish the devs played with mods in mincraft like Tinkers construction, where the individual pieces of the item were assembled with the ability and the stats were made up on the final item. get rid of the whole stupid random system.

there isnt any skill in using the forge some people just have better luck or more disposable income or materials to play the lottery until they get what they want.

It might as well be a blackjack machine

1 Like
13

Oh, I definitely liked that one. With all the quirks and boons and everything we have, an alloys and parts system could be really interesting. I’m also a fan of “+10 strength -10 crit” type materials, where you have to choose to specialize, and I think that could work really well with a parts system.

I wonder (and only the devs would know) if there is a good way to modify the existing forge system to give some semblance of that. I could imagine a system where we use gums to build boons and boon/defect combos and then lock them in and power them up. Impossible to know from here if this is feasible, though.

1 Like
14

Personally, I think the concept of the current forging is fine, they really just need to hand over more control to the player and tone down the RNG. RNG isn’t a bad thing if the player can control it, and we can, but it’s just not enough control atm, and there’s a lot that the devs can do to give us more control (or tone down RNG).

A system similar to TiC would be interesting, but that’ll be quite a major overhaul and remove all RNG completely. I’m not against it, but I also feel like it’s unnecessary. Not to mention the sheer amount of different materials and effects and balancing needed to avoid “one best tool for everything” scenario.

Semi unrelated, but now that I think about it, due to vigor/stability stacking, the bottleneck for that prevents people from forging an item infinitely is centraforge item slots, so a lazy/easy solution would be to allow adding more items to ongoing forge. This makes things like defect/quirk reduction compound more viable as well and allow perfect forge every time (removal solvent + reduction compound can cancel any bad boon/defect/quirk), at the cost of resources.