I’m also no economist and we did consider this - but rejected it as overly complicated. We will instead manually set the values and balance them as the game and economy evolves.
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The problem is that we can have 10 characters. In real life economics work better because you let other people do it is because you can’t so it yourself or they are 10 times faster. While you do something you are good at.
I mainly do only hunts since that’s what I like most and can do them when ever I like. And let others do the forging or crafting.
And I don’t have the time to do the gathering. But the most rich people just don’t buy that much because they are fine with the grind. That’s how they got rich in the first place
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If I’m understanding this correctly, I’d say it is pretty dangerous to align anything to player based prices especially if it used to set a base price by the developers. Player prices can easily be set at a higher than realistic value.
While I agree some coin generation might be helpful, it is already bad enough having developers come in and set the market on things. I think we should consider this solution as a test and have the machine removed if it doesn’t help the economy or creates problems especially around pricing items.
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Incorrect. Most rich people became rich in the game from footfall or a successful shop or selling select items to people.
I think people choosing to buy or not buy goes way outside if you are rich or not. Many people have no money in this game and wouldn’t buy because their they don’t want to play the “shop” part of this game or they feel prices are overly inflated.
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Perhaps a better way to perceive this is that this is government purchasing in an economy. We already have taxes to take coin out. This is a controlled way to put coin back in beyond footfall.
The variable rates based on player interaction would have to be done through the block to prevent gaming, but to concur with James, I don’t doubt it would be complicated as all get-out.
Additionally, an economy needs stability to grow. This should be a change to support that stability, thus permanent for all intents and purposes. Most arguements I’ve seen against developer intervention is that it goes against the “free market”. There isn’t a free market anywhere, here or in real life, that doesn’t have regulation, taxes or government intervention. It’s necessary for growth.
The change James proposed is to support establishing a value floor for goods and to remove the oversupply on the market. This both introduces coin, and creates inflation - both effects the market desperately needs. In the US this would be controlled by the Federal Reserve Bank, and in the EU it would be controlled by the European Central Bank. It’s a bold action that can help reverse a trend in an economy and give players ways to interact with each other as intended.
Let’s be very clear that the idea of supply and demand in a “regeneration” type game model is actually pretty ridiculous. These two systems are mutually exclusive and ultimately you will run into problems trying to get them to play well together.
There needs to be a free market where players set the prices and the game runs without any developer interaction. But, as I told James two months ago when we talked about the machine idea they were developing - we have a problem in the game around coin generation and seeing if this coin generator helps is much better than not. Especially for those players that don’t have footfall riches due to the problems around location hot spots.
I’m not opposed to a stability process here but linking it to players prices is a mistake. I am fine with the developers feeling they can set a price but that should not be based on any price we currently have from the perception of players on what they think is a “fair price.” Once you start setting prices too high then that will over inflate goods that use those base materials because people will say it costs X for that base resource.
We need to see if this helps or not and be willing to remove features from the game especially if it causes more harm than good.
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More uses for these items? The fibrous leaves that are used to make sackcloth with. Use them to make rope and use the rope to make rope ladders.
Having steps you the side of a building can be a pain when you are always having critter getting there in the way and then knocking you off (fall damage).
A rope ladder would let us climb up/down and not have them in the way. Another item that could be sold. Less steps that low level players could make them easy and sell them.
Also have some items that are in high demand but few can be found (Shimmering orbs) be replaced with ones that are more common (puslsating orbs) and a oversupply of them. Pulsating orbs could be used in place of something that the shimmering ones are used in to make them more desirable and able to be sold instead of being tossed aside.
Make a machine that lets us change lesser items of the same type, say make a transformer to make pulsating orbs into shimmering orbs. Ten of pulsating orbs to become one shimmering orbs.
For players who are unable to travel to higher level planets but want/need items from them they can transform some items they can get into something they need.
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I for one would have fun using a machine like this, sure you might get some dud rngs here and there but that’s the fun of any gamble. I’m sure there’s more people who would enjoy this than hate it
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Yeah I was kind of sad to see this machine got pulled. It seemed like it might be fun… better than playing the slots in Vegas!
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Economy Machine -
Is it possible that Over Supply is such an issue because the game has no trash feature? In addition to the Economy Machine, can we just get a trash on the Inventory screen?
I realize we can drop items…but that is problematic.
For instance, I am out mining. My inventory is full on rocks but I want to keep mining. As I mine, the dropped rocks fall on the ground blocking my vision of the blocks I am walking on…this results in me not clearly seeing items below me…it blocks my view.
My only option is to dig out an area, dump a bunch of blocks (hope they actually dump and I don’t just pick them back up) and then go back to mining.
I will often pick those items up again before they despawn…then I need to do it again…my inventory keeps filling…unless I leave the area and drop it off.
Ugh, so I just keep the stone, go back to base and throw them on shelves. Now I have a ton of stone.
But if in the moment I could just trash it…I would trash some things…and then the oversupply would be less! I think it is worth thinking about at least.
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Just something that might help you a little.
You don’t need to leave the area to dump the inventory to clear the ‘ground’ rock.
As your inventory fills with rock while mining, and the surface fills with rock you can no longer pick up due to full inventory, stay where you are, dump a stack of rock from your inventory and 9/10 you will pick up all the loose rock around you, clearing the area.
You can repeat this as often as you like, occasionally you will pick up a different item (sand, gravel, etc), on those instances just dump that from the inventory and continue.
I do this and never pick up the stack I’ve just dropped, I always pick up the loose items first.
I find I need to do this, not just to see what’s about, but because it slows the game down massively on my PS4 Pro (I guess everyone else’s as well, but haven’t really discussed it before) if I leave all those uncollected blocks hovering away.
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I play only 1 character. I really wish there could be a way to get around this. I see people claiming their plots to another character whos not in the same guild as “main” who owned the plots in the first place.
While i like that you can “trick” the system i feel really bad for myself and others who play just 1 char. Only thing there is to do is to quit guild if so… if you want bigger footfall.
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Wow that was a big topic, with lots of branching side discussions. So this is going to be a long wall of text…
I agree if you have no permissions on a plot (aligned or not) you should generate coin. I am only in two guilds so I tend to get a healthy amount of foot fall coin for my shops, but free weekend generated WAY more (mostly due to temporary increase in player counts, but also most if not all of these players were not in a shared guild with me).
I am curious about the way the new locks will come into play here. if I give someone permissions to say fuel my portal, or use some machines, but they otherwise have no permissions on my beacon, will they generate coins?
I agree with this, and I have said as such on some of those threads, I feel even just an increase of 2x or 3x to the daily/weekly feats would be able to provide the stimulus for active players who find themselves completely broke (the free warp home helps as well).
I am probably middle class in economy terms in game. I primarily play with one character, but I have 3 (one for hunts/forging and the other is sorta a cooking character but rarely is he used). I got this mostly by luck and making quick and good decisions on portal locations to popular hubs when the game launched. being only a week and a half slow to making a shop with portal connections gave me enough that have been able to slowly claw my way up to middle class. I feel that a nudge to daily/weekly feats grants the ability to claw back to the lower class, is a slight increase to middle class, and has little to no effect on the rich.
I actually dislike this idea, mostly for selfish reasons though. Since what I regularly sell is gathered items, and I sell very few crafted ones (apart from tools). This feels like it might increase the value of these items, but I will feel shafted since it is my primary income via shop and now I have to weigh if I should sell these items occasionally to players or just grab quick coin… weird position to be in, but by all means go ahead I am just one player and this machine will not in fact impair my ability to enjoy the game and is unlikely to reduce my play time either.
I saw someone mention ladders, they would be awesome, welcomed, but probably not actually something rich people would buy. Honestly I find that seasonal items have kinda fell into this category already. I only use a hand full of these for personal use, and I sell the rest. slowly even at “high but lower than many” prices I have been selling spooky seeds. So I feel we have a test case in hand here.
Player crafted jewelry could be something the rich would desire. Have the colors be based on the materials used, you could have wood, stone, metal, gleam, (and maybe gem added at a later date). Each unique looking, and good looking in their own right (wood more tribal, stone be basic but pleasant like pearls, metal would be more Aztec themed, and gleam would have more sharp edges to its look). You could follow the basic/refined/decor model here but I don’t feel that it is necessary to launch the system but an add on for later. The rich tend to have 5+ characters they use for different things, and “dress up” is super popular in mmos. but w don’t have anything crafted that fills this void. it can be things like bracelets, anklets, waist bands (belts), and collars (necklaces). Keep the head items in the exchange, and the body paint in the exchange. This would at least increase an initial demand in common over saturated resources (such as stone).
I saw someone on these forums today mention that Vital essence and ancient essence need a conversion (sorry I can’t quote you I can’t find it and this is already getting too long as it is). I think just a simple “aging/revitalization” machine would be nice, and would fit the theme. also I think that Rock (yes rock not stone) should be able to return ancient essence at a rate of like 180 to 1 or something high like that. Give me a reason to use more rock for something besides an xp grind and less stone enters the market to begin with. Augments do use rock, but while I think they are cool, most people do not seem to bother with them in their current form.
This is how it should be but, unfortunately, it isn’t. I just tested it again with a second player because I thought it might work differently with my own alts…
Char1-Account1 and Char2-Account2 are a member of the same guild. Char1-Account1 walks into the beacon of Char2-Account2 and generates footfall.
Char3-Account1 and Char2-Account2 are a member of the same guild. Char2-Account2 aligns her beacon with the guild (aligned, not guild controlled!). Char3-Account1 walks into the aligned beacon of Char2-Account2 and triggers no footfall.
Char1 and Char3 have zero permission on the beacons of Chat2-Account2 and aligning a beacon to a guild does not give you any permission.
Basically, this problem still exists:
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Thanks for the feedback.
We’re reviewing these rules and considering relaxing them. It’s clearly overly complicated and everything is getting tied into knots.
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But you still have a full inventory and still can’t see what is around you. We need a trash option where the items can be shifted to a trash can and then deleted.
As for just tossing, yes, I do that a lot, but I’d rather some be used in place of others. It is down right Ridiculous that the item the most in demand, shimmering orbs are the least to be able to find.
And in another item that is in demand, the glow cap mushrooms. That is a plant that is used for decorating, so if you sell plants and need shimmering orbs you have the difficult task of deciding on which to use.
And I don’t see any reason why the pulsating orbs can’t be used in place of the shimmering for two or three of the items. Or have more of them on the level 5 and 5 planets and rare on the level 4. Or more able to be collected from growth on all planets.
Back on topic Guild members not getting footfall. I am a guild member of the one on my home planet. I get footfall, as does my son. Not a lot as my base is away from the main area, but he is closer and he get around 500 or more a day. That may seem small to some of you but for our location it is a nice amount. And we don’t need coins for much, all that we buy is mainly gold and titanium, went to a level 6 planet and ended up with 10 gold and 20 sliver, around 100 of iron and just over 100 of medium coal, same with soft coal and less than 50 of hard coal. I do better on level 4 planets except for the gold and sliver. Mined earlier on a level four planet and got over a smart stack of soft coal, less than 100 of medium and close to 200 iron and more of copper. Not one gem on the level 6 and it is supposed to be a good planet for diamonds. Mined for four hours from level 14 to level 60 something and I have a hammer that goes through rock like crazy and his is okay.
Back on topic, sorry.
If players aren’t getting footfall, I suggest that you see if you have given your guild control or permission on your beacons and then remove it and see if you start to get footfall.
As for what my son has done for the guild, he put up a portal for the settlement, anyone can use it; there is one that goes to the guild hall, but I think ours is more accessible, not sure though. We are part of the settlement but not close at all to the center of it. But a lot easier to find, I think.
Why are we getting it, I don’t feel like rereading the first post (hurting right now) but my son and I were chatting about it yesterday and we both are wondering about the permission aspect.
I am aligned with the guild, I am a member, but the guild Does Not Have permission on my beacon. I didn’t give it and they don’t want it and if they did, I would refuse, I don’t like the thought of someone having control of my base, they don’t need to. If they need something I have I would be more than wiling to share it if I have enough. I give coins to them when I have enough to share and do gathering for them of items I can collect.
I also make food for the guild, from the simple one of meaty casserole to now going to make some teaching pies as my girl can now do so.
I know this is of topic, but I feel needs said.
The items that are in most demand are so because they are the most difficult to get.
This is a good thing, it creates high demand which means they have higher coin value, meaning people want to sell as well as buy, and as people value coin it makes a reason for some to gather.
So it’s actually a good thing.
If everything was easy to get, or if mats were used in recipes only in quantities that match their abundance, then everything becomes the same, and everything has the same value, and lack of variety would be a big issue (it already is a bit of an issue currently).
Edit: BTW, I don’t think harvesting glow caps is the most efficient way of getting shims! Have a little look in your knowledge tab and you might find a way to increase the amount of shims you gather!
I can see it as a good thing to some extent, but I feel it is too much. There ae too many recipes that need shimmering orbs. I don’t think that taking two recipes that require shimmering orbs and making them need pulsating or even vital orbs would have that much effect, it could be the food one, or another one for not high demand item such as the one for the forging that requires the centraforge.
I know I can get them from growth, The only sources for shimmering orbs is glow caps and growth and I do collect them from it, but I am having a hard time getting any from growth and even in finding growth. If I have to spend 2-5k (or even more) for a shovel that lets me get them and only get one per 20 growth then that is too much to pay. Especially as they wear out so fast. And then add in buying brews that will let me go faster and I think it is too much expense. I’d probably be better off buying them.
I am not the only one complaining, and yes, this time it is complaining about the difficulty in getting shimmering orbs.
There needs to be one or two more plants that have shimmering orbs, the ones that are on level 5 and 6 planets rare or very rare on level 4, more in growth. I’m not saying a huge amount, 5% increase would be a help.
I don’t think shimmering orbs should be in food items, if they want food to need them go with vital or another one that is difficult but not as hard. And could require more of them. Vital orbs for example, can’t remember how many are needed of the shimmering orbs, but if it requires 5 then make it 8 or 10 of the vital orbs.
And I know that vital orbs aren’t that hard to find, just have never focused on finding the others so don’t know about them.
I’ve railroaded this topic enough, I may start a thread on this one.