HELP! Give us your opinion on the balance of beacon compactness?

[DKPuncherello]

@majorvex

here’s your area

I think a planet where people can only build in a specific space would be cool. Like, have pre designated road spaces and pre designated shop spaces.

[Jeffrotheswell]

Obsevation:
1 buffer zones were added to stop people from absorbing other people without there permission
2 compact plots are being added to keep people from abusing buffer zones that reserve more space then they have.
My opinion:
So why not remove buffer zones and add an opt in option. The beauty of this is simplicity. What’s on the table now feels overly complex.

[Kralith]

Uhm, i feel the mood is dropping hard.
Maybe the system, you wanted with the compactness is not the way you should go @james
I don‘t know.
Maybe just try to make an algorithm, that just look for a beacon to be the kind of Snakeplot you wanted to prevent.

There need to be way more checks for surrounding beacons.
And need to analyse the shapes of an beacon at empty reserved areas.
For now, just some streets, thats going outwards from a town, is dropping the whole hard down.
That can not be the way it should work.

And just to say “Hey, then turn off beacon reservation.” can also not be the way, as long you have not an opt in/out system.
The reservation prevents that someone just connect towns without asking.

It feels wrong.
We are complaining much these days, even if you tried to give us feedback and want our feedback. But on the other hand… there are many reasons, very valid reasons in my opinion, why the path is not a good one.
We will always have people who abuse things.
And if something is not working anymore, the next annoying thing will pop up.
How long you will be able to add limits to your game?
There will be a point, where nothing is left, that you can limit more.
We need to live with idiots, who make our game annoying as hell.
I think the only solution is, to work as a community to face them.
To be honest, i don’t want to pay this supposed security with my freedom.

@DutchOfSorissi and @majorvex, well mirrored.

[DKPuncherello]

@Jeffrotheswell

So why not remove buffer zones and add an opt in option.

That’s my opinion.

Though some of the worst sprawl does occasionally box people in, this system seems WAY more complex than opt-in (or opt-out)

I do think the maps web app is useful. I would love to see an in-game “help me find a spot” feature that uses this data to help people find a spot for a build of whatever times whatever size.

[DutchOfSorissi]

That’s the reason I haven’t argued or supported opt-in/out. I’d feel bad if a neighboring settlement invited us to road to them and do like a joint build and they got to keep their name… then my city swallows them whole like Sinbad living in the whale’s belly.

And KB is a whale of a .

Also people switching sides and messing with prestige etc. Wouldn’t be as simple as it sounds. Would be great if it was the best answer.

[Alucard2150]

but it would be your choice if you joined someone else now you just get forced to join

[Enistachia]

Mercury is in retrograde.

[molav]

Okay, potential idea I just thought of:

A: implement an opt in/opt out button on beacons for neighbor settlements. (Or keep reservation buffer)

B: this proposed tool for plotting is not implemented in the game, but becomes a tool a GM can use in game to wrangle in abusers.

C: said GM will display on the player’s screen upon logging in “correct your plots oortian, or the cosmic hammer of doom shall lay siege to your settlement.”

D: GM gets a cannon from space if said abuser does not correct in 1 month’s time.

This would allow for no direct binding of rules. And keep plotting freedom. Only affecting truly abusive players.

Plus a side show we can all eat popcorn too, should said abuser continue to abuse.

Tick tock, oortians

Lol

[majorvex]

Maybe one of these new layers of building/plotting restrictions should be turned into a bonus - or include one.

ie: the more compact your build is, the less tax your settlement has to pay, the more ff your settlement will earn/generate, maybe you earn a small plot bonus for “good plotting behavior”…

Sometimes it’s better to reward the behavior you want, instead of continually “punishing” the behavior you don’t want. That way, it won’t be viewed as a nerf or a negative and you can cast the net over every single player, equally.

Distractions & re-direction are other good behavior-modifying tools (in this case: events, exos, weekend events, easter eggs…)

Any harsh penalties on players with malicious intent should come directly from a moderator/admin/dev -and directly affect that specific player.

[Creegle]

Best case argument I’ve seen you make. This is well said.

[majorvex]

@molav

C: said GM will display on the player’s screen upon logging in “correct your plots oortian, or the cosmic hammer of doom shall lay siege to your settlement.”

D: GM gets a cannon from space if said abuser does not correct in 1 month’s time.

Although, I love these too lol

[molav]

This is actually a really good idea @james, maybe you can turn this around with positive things given to those who are within your desired compactness threshold. Incentivizing without punishing and getting the results you want without the heat. @majorvex good idea.

[molav]

I appreciate you, appreciating my humor

[Creegle]

It’s smart because ultimately, what the “griefers” want is to have power of some kind over another. If the focus steers away from land ownership as having “power” and into how we use the land we have; if the incentive makes those who are “within the intentional spirit” of the game prosper over those who seek to do harm, then you have taken the candy away from the screaming child as it were. This is a better direction.

[molav]

I think it would also be a good change of pace. Adding benefits to desired behavior makes a lot of sense. The benefits just have to be something that most if not all would prefer to have over map spaghetti.

I think giving instead of taking is a good way to go.

For example if your plots are better than the devs’ preferred .25, you get:

1. 100% faster crafting
2. 50% off world tax
3. 50% more ff
4. 10% more prestige

[molav]

You can also make stages of this, saying if you are above .5 on compactness, you get in addition to the above:

1. 20% prestige gain
2. 65% world tax reduction
3. 10% Chance to make 1 extra item from each crafting

I bet this alone would curve behavior @james

[DutchOfSorissi]

I might say make the benefits a little smaller than that but I love this and would take a complete 180 on my stance if it went in a positive direction like that. No dreams crushed or creativity suppressed, and if someone has a long road to nowhere with no plans on using it they might even say “ehh ya know what I’ll let someone else take this land for the [10%] reduction in crafting time.”

[molav]

Yeah, definitely smaller values. Just examples initially. @james could make like a level of benefits every .25 of compactness and even one at 100% compactness for incentives. This actually has me excited for the potential @majorvex

[xyberviri]

@Mittins

My brother has done exactly this for this reason. He has built a detailed “Manor” on the corner of a lake on a hill with beautiful views of the sunrise. He plotted lots of the lake to protect his view. (plotted every plot in between) Why is that wrong? Because it prevent’s other from building there?

The bigger issue at hand would be the limiting space the universe provides. We may have a small player base, but the longer the game persists without adding more planets, the less available room there is. The game is full of loyal veterans, who keep expanding at a rate higher than that of plots being abandoned.

But there really isnt that little space, people just dont want to spread out. everyone wants to build right next to where some one else is

[Mittins]

@xyberviri

everyone wants to build right next to where some one else is

Half want to spread out, the other half want to be near others. It’s hard for players to really escape into the wild and enjoy their solitude.

@Mittins

Yes, there’s lots of unused space out there. probably like 10% of the universe is plotted

You forgot to include that part in the quote. I recognize its really alot bigger out there than it feels sometimes but again, Current Space is finite until private planets come out.