Holy Trinity, Healing, Regeneration, Potions, Food.and Oort

This is going to be another loooong post (2400 words) with me talking everything involving regnerating health, discussions, opinions, whatever, i hope you will read it if you have the time and come with thoughts on the questions i will place in the end.

So a bit of text to explain the point of it, most of us have played RPG’s. (those on that side atleast) and they usually have healing magic because that is what we are used to, but over the last few years healing appears to disappear from games for other systems such as potions, should we regen health, how would food affect it and so on. lets begin

(also i wont mention MC anywhere, the titan badum tss of voxel games since i have near 0 experience with it as pointed out)

The Holy Trinity

The holy trinity is a system used within older mmo’s to clearly define what roles each class and playstyle was, it looks like this

The games that uses The Holy Trinity system could have different classes but they would always boil down to 3 roles.


Tanks are the front fighters in games, Tank classes are specifically made to protect the weaker members of the party, the DPS and Healers. They have massive healthbars and or damage reduction spells and their overall purpose is to Aggro from allies to himself (make the enemies that are attacking other people, attack him)

While have massive surviveability though it has minimal damage, if you were to fight as a tank you would be able to sustain a ton of hits but the fights would take much longer because the damage output is near 0, which also leads to tanks in most games being useless at playing solo.

A common trait for tanks is that they usually wear heavy armor and a shield to minimize damage taken.

DPS ( Damage Per Second) / Damage Dealers.

DPS classes as the name suggests excels at doing massive damage, the DPS role is the one with the most varied classes within it, everything from duelwielding warriors, archers, mages, warlocks, rogues, You name them, they all fall under the DPS category.

The reason that the DPS category is the biggest is because it is one of the easiest to solo normal enemies and content with,

The traits that all DPS classes share is that they can dish out alot of damage, usually split between sustainable middle strength damage and then have middle survivability, and then having glass cannon DPS classes like rogues that will have very little sustain ability but on the other hand have a ton of burst damage.


Now this part is why i mentioned the holy trinity, the healers.

A Healers job is to keep other people + themselves alive using healing spells, shields and buffs.

Healers have really low damage but usually have the ability to cast some nasty debuffs that allows them to still affect the enemy in fights, the healers usually have really low armor rating and generally wears robes and cloth to enchance their ability to make spells more effective.

The point of the holy trinity is that even if you have 12 classes they will usually either be Tank, DPS or Healer. this is primarily used in dungeons, the usual amount of people required for a dungeon is 5, and it is neccesary to have a healer, a tank and 3 dps to clear dungeons because they were made so focused on the holy trinity, a tank will take the beating but he wont survive long because even though he has alot of survivability the enemies will take big chunks of health from him, that is where the healer comes in and stays in the background while keeping allies alive.

the common more simple RPG dungeon fights follows a pattern.

  • Tank goes into the enemies. make them all hit him
  • The dps starts to hit the same enemies that the tank is, so he can keep aggro
  • The tank is the only one getting hit so he is the only one needing healing, so the healer will just spam the same ability time and time again on the tank to keep him from dying

As you can see with this Holy Trinity driven system healing is not something that will help, it is made purely for helping being neccesary and it leaves very little room for fun, there are no tactics, there are just spamming your abilties, if the tank keeps aggro the DPS can just keep attacking without ever fearing to get attacked, and the healer only had to worry about spamming the same heal ability, although the tank needs to keep aggro he has nothing he can do to prevent it from happening other than trusting his healer.

That is how it worked, but it was so set in stone that it wasnt fun anymore, that is where the interesting part comes in, people started breaking the pattern of holy trinity and make it more dynamic, i will mention a few examples.


Guild wars 2 still had a sort of holy trinity but it wasnt nearly as set in stone as the previous example. the biggest difference being that although 1 class had the ability to heal others, the heals were so weak that they almost didnt count. that is why every class had a healing ability they could use by pressing Q

every class would have 2 or 3 possible healing skills (not sure which) + a racial specific healing ability.

i have a human thief and the the healing spells available i can remember on the top of my head is that i had a prayer to the godess (human racial) a spell that healed me and made me invisible (class) and one that passively gave me healing whenever i damaged an enemy which i could activate to get a small health burst and while it was on cd i didnt have the passive.

Using this system made dungeons hard, a tank could no longer pull aggro on every single target because it only had its own healing and damage mitigation which meant that the dps also needed to take damage and that there was no real healers, destroying the holy trinity completely.

People saw that it worked and smaller company games started to adapt to the idea of not neccesarily having a pre defined healer class or skill tree and some bigger games followed suit.

Eso used nearly the same system as gw2 except the fact that there was a healer skill tree, people still couldnt just let the tank take all the damage and then faceroll their skills they all needed to fight and dodge, making healing harder and more interesting because now they had to prioritize who to heal first and who could wait a bit.


voxel games started to become popular and more were created because they saw how much money minecraft bought in, the 2 examples that are RPG focused are Cubeworld and Trove, both which uses potions in slightly diferent ways. the 2 ways are single use potions, and refillable potions.

Cubeworld used craftable potions which had different tiers, you would need to buy an empty flask, fill it with water and then combine that with a heartflower and boom you had a potion

the potions could stack up to a stack of 50 and they could be used in combat while moving, to drink the entire potion you would need to not attack for a few seconds while drinking.

The interesting thing is that there was no automatic health regeneration in the game and you had only 2 ways of getting health, eating food (which will come further down) and then drinking the potions. and only the potions could be drunk in combat, in Cubeworld for those who dont know, the enemies hit, and they hit hard so if you had no potions you would basically get instakilled in combat, unless you played ninja, cause they were in no way balanced and could become invincible, but that is another subject entirely xD

Trove did something a bit different, they allowed you to have 15 potions on you that was bound to Q but unlike CW there was no creating potions but rather recharging them, using a potion station or world spring or whatever they were called.

you would need to craft the recharge spring but it didnt take many materials. so whenever you wanted to recharge your potions you needed to find a recharge well (which wasnt too hard because of the moveable house system)

In this game there is however health regen involved and no food.

Now the curious thing is that bigger game such as dragon age inquisition also only allows the use of potions for healing (not counting the only healing spell in the game which requires special energy that takes ages to regen) simply because they saw it as a better system, and it is a really nice system, i cant just spam heals on my characters, you have a good amount of rechargeable potions but they are split between the entire party. so you always have to think ‘‘do i want to use the potion now, on this character? but then i have 1 less for later in case i need it’’ instead of only ‘‘oh look, you took dmg, here, full health’’ which adds an entire new dimension to the game, because its not just in battle your healing or potion amount that matters but also out of battle, the potions only recharge at your unlocked camps which are kinda far an few between, so you have to really think when to use potions.

DAI also uses 1 time potion systems, at standard you can equip 3 - 5 of a specific potion that you can carry, those are individual so though you only have 5 it is 5 per character.

Near 0 healing:

This is a short one since it is almost never done, but skyforge are currently making heal (like DAI) a skill that requires a high level and can only be used in extreme situations since there is a massive CD on it,

Skyforge still have support classes though and tank classes, but they rely on shields rather than on external healing.

when asked Is it true that there are no healers?

‘‘Yes, it’s true. There will be no healers in the game. We came to this decision because of the discomfort that healing seems to cause in such games - endless tug-of-war over the health bar; the whole raid focusing on the poor healer; drawn-out boss fights where winning is impossible; hopeless PvP – all of this can be easily fixed with one simple change, and the now-vacant role can be filled by several support classes.’’

which is also an interesting take on it

Health regeneration/Food:

now a days food in games either give longer lasting buffs or are useless and only there for the RP elements, the reason for that is that games usually have an out of combat regeneration system, after every fight you basically reset, so go in, fight, go out, get ful health and start over.

i mentioned in DAI how that wasnt quite the case, because your choices on when to heal would determine how many options you have for healing later when you might need it more. out of combat there wasnt any healing either, so if you had taken dmg that damage would not go up unless you uses another potion to get the health up.

Old school world of warcraft did something similar, you needed food and water because if you didnt have those then your mana or hp wouldnt really regenerate, the food and water was cheap and mages could even make it, but it was neccesary, that system sadly changed as wow got bigger and new stuff came into the game. now when you are low level you get the reset system as i mentioned, take a fight, win the fight, instantly get full hp and mana, repeat time and time again.

So we have 2 systems:

  1. there is no automatic health regen, the only way to get health is through potions, healing or food, increasing the value of chefs because food is no longer just a buff you could live without, but a system that you need so you have an easier time, not impossible to do without, but if you dont have food on you, you really need to think about what to do next. things like apples would be common in lower tier so it would be easy to keep food at lower tiers but the higher up you get the harder it is to find food so you would need to buy some from a chef.

  2. there is automatic health regen, there is no need for food to survive. you would simply get the reset system, this would allow them to make the invidividual battles harder because you do get a reset, while the other simple might make them slighly easier, but every fight would still feel like permanent damage and more punishing than option number 2.

So this is the explanations on the questions, now here are the questions:

  1. do you think there should be a specific healing class/fighting style or should healing be split up between all classes either as personal skills or potions
  2. do you think that oort should try to enforce the idea of holy trinity in case they do have healing classes?
  3. should there be an automated health regeneration system in the game that will give you full hp after every battle or should health only be regainable by potions (or the oort version of it) and food?
  4. in case they use a potion system should they be 1 time uses or a set amount that could be recharged at specific locations?
  5. should oort try to stay away from any form of heals which could be used in combat?

I honestly doubt anybody will read this because i like explaing my thoughts and ideas in details, but in case you managed to get through it. GJ.


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Everything but no natural regeneration please :smiley: If necessary only in beacons.

First I just go down on the point of the “trinity”, which I dislike in many ways. I think Oort don’t need this kind of classes or roles for it’s gameplay. The most parts of the game are ment for single experience or in small groups and only the titans call for a larger number of people. I dislike the fixed set of 3 roles but would love to see a flexible system where everybody can use every skills and items and chose if he is more the hp intense player with self heal, a range char with some nice evading skills or a healing guy with a nice mace in his hands. Characters should be not fixed on seperate skill trees or sets, but have the ability to learn all skills in game (mostly through crafting). All doors have to be open for character development.

I also DONT WANT to have Oort having a aggro system. This systems makes most combat boring. Skills that let enemies attack you are okay, but only for a very short period (like for distracting), but please no background calculation on which monster is now aggroed by which player the most. let them switch at some points randomly, like seen in Guild wars 1. If a Creature suddenly jumps onto another target without warning it gives a thrill.

If someone wants to specialise, let him, but don’t push players to do so, cuz that is something I realy dislike.

For Health, I would like to have a slow permanent regeneration (if not starving) not bound to combat (or after it). If you want to have more, build a regenerator belt or some potions / medipacks. That is the most logical way for Oort I think. And Potions have to be one-time-items of cause (other equipment like a skill in a belt for example, may just have a energy cost or a cooldown)

And finaly: NO, Health should also be regeneratable in Combat. If it is to annoying (for example in pvp) just let it be a higher regen and not insta-heal :wink:


so you say that we should have healing as a skill tree and also the ability to chuck potions in combat, and then near 0 hp regen forcing people do use food, potions or healing to get health after combat?

fair enougj :smiley:

no no ^^ … dont get me wrong. I dislike the system of skill trees for Oort. Healing can be a skill, but everybody should be able to learn/equip it (as a character skill / as an item). You also casn drink potions whenever you want. But instant healing should be bound to high costs (a lot of energy/shards or a cooldown on the item) while potions should not be instant, but 300% regen for example. on this way it doesn’t matter if you drink five potions. The effect don’t get higher if you drink more.

And the Normal regeneration can be bound to your status (well filled -> not hungry -> hungry -> starving --> 100 - 25%)

Skill trees are just progression based in getting stronger heals the more you use it or even just a way to have all healing skills gathered 1 place. basically, not that you can ONLY use healing if you use it.

and there is no other word for it as far as im aware.

When I hear “skill trees” I have to think of Diablo II or similar games. If it is a more open way like in The Elder Scolls, where you get more used to a skill if you use it, I’m with it :wink:

But remember that Oort as a crafting game can do much of the “skilling” stuff with items you have to wear to use them. That would also be a good way to limit the choices (for example you can wear a shielding backback, a glider pack or energy pack that gives you more energy for the equiped weapon (which also can be a healing glove to heal others)). The same would also go well with movement skills on shoes (or the resistance to knock downs for example).

I only know the combat triangle (melee->range->magic->melee) but that’s another point^^
No forced character specialization. Everyone should be able to do everything. No classes, no trinity.

5 mages should be able to beat a boss aswell as 5 melee player.

Healing with food:yes
regeneration: very low then yes
potions shouldn’t be reusable. Maybe you get the flask back to craft another one but no automatic refill.


i hate games that don’t have the trinity they just always end up feeling bland or ultra casual. I know this game will be casual and that’s fine but i like being able to say " i am a healer and people need me :slight_smile: "

I hated gw2 and their style of every man for themselves in dungeons. I hated diablo style because the " tank" always got the shaft for potions and death etc while range could just sit in the back and go Lolololololol enjoy the repair bills.

I would say the game i loved the most and most ppl will ahve never heard of it… Earth Eternal.

you make a class and you can sink into other class trees but the root abilities were off limits. You wanna be a druid and heal then u heal on a druid… wanna be a little tanky ? use some of the warriors side abilities… Or the other way around and be sorta like a paladin.

But druids always healed and warriors always tanked. But the hybrid combos you could make for solo play were great :slight_smile:

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As far the as “holy trinity” thing goes, I feel it makes the game feel predictable as such with designated tank aggro’ing. When it comes to aggro, it should reset quickly and allow spike damage to gain aggro; healing will also gain aggro. This allows everyone to take the heat and feel the thrill.

I think the class system should be very free form and open. Does anyone remember the “Exile” games made by Spiderweb? They essentially through a skill point system allowed you to make anyone anything they wanted to be just based on the skills they chose. Want to cleric and combat? Done! If this was expanded upon, it would lead to endless class combinations rather than set ones.

Healing can come in many forms such as through potions made through alchemy, items found or made such as food, scrolls and ointments or through magic such as actual healing spells or spells that heal over time. All magic should be slow but powerful. Perfect World has clerics whose power was based off the same MAG stat when it came to attack or healing magic. Formula was like X weapon attack + X% based on damage + X base amount. In the long run, a cleric could hit almost as hard as wizards in some cases. The proper use of “potion sickness” effects, cool downs, and cast times will make healing strategic and fair in both PvE and PvP.

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I wouldn’t go so far as to say I hate games that don’t have the holy trinity, but I will say I dont play any of the ones that don’t have it anymore. I’m fine with flexibility in classes or the ability to swap them but I like to have a role in group gameplay and I like feeling like I’m mastering it. For me personally without the holy trinity I dont get that satisfaction and the group gameplay feels hectic or ambiguous. I think either way I will enjoy Oort, but I will enjoy it even more if I can be a dedicated healer.


I sort of like Archeage’s approach to classes, pick three skill trees that define your class, it made it so that there are a lot of different combinations (I think there were like 120 combinations but you usually see 5-10 because people found out which were… more efficient for their needs, I guess.) I’m not a fan of potions that instantly restore health/mana, the same thing applies to food if it restores health like it does in Runescape. If there is health regen I think it should be reduced to a small amount while in combat, making it so that if someone in your group has healing spells they could use them to heal you and/or give you a buff to increase your health regen while in combat, but it should go back to a normal rate while out of combat.

The archeage system was very open yet could be specialized too. I also liked it. If you wanted to have healing in your warrior class you could. If you wanted to have a dedicated healing role to excel at you could do that too. I’d still be playing it if their response to the huge hacking problems wasnt so poor.

Why does it have to be a holy trinity? Why can’t it be unholy? Or normal…

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Good question. No idea what the origin of the term is, but im guessing when one of the “wow killers” came out and some game reviewer used the term causing it to spiral from there.

Posting a second time since when I try to edit my posts it says “composer was opened without a draft key” not sure whats up with that, but anyways…
Potions would be cool of the HPS was high but only for a shorter amount of time so they feel meaningful or if they had neat and unusual buffs.
As for regen I’m not a huge fan of the hunger meter unless its forgiving. In some games it gets really bothersome to have to keep stopping to stuff your face.
Another cool idea could be to replenish health/energy by setting up camp every now and then with a campfire and tent or something, but same as food it should be a sometimes thing not a every time im hurt hinda thing IMO