How To Fix Crafting

Suggestions
1

Premise

  • The current state of crafting is unintuitive, frustrating, convoluted

Since returning to the game. I have spent most of my time catching up on what has changed to get a feel of what the game is at this point.

-Skills
The first sign of trouble was spending 15 minutes cussing trying to figure out why I couldn’t craft a stone tool. I get that you put skills in for the MMO aspect of the game, but not a big fan of it. It has not made playing the game more enjoyable to play than it was a year ago. It has actually made playing a lot less enjoyable. But if you are going to do this it needs to be explained to the player, either in tutorial or made obvious in the UI. Tucking it away in a sub menu of Character and hoping they find it is not the best.
My though was I know the recipes. What is a new player going to do? Join the game gather items and wonder why they can’t make anything.

-Hierarchy and dependency structure
The next issue that I encountered once I started to understand the skill system, was that I would sink some points into unlocking something to craft only to find that it had a dependency at the same level that was required to make what I just paid to unlock? Not only is this upsetting it is terrible design. If you’re going to have dependency they should be at a tier below the one you unlocking to craft. T2 tool requires T1 ingredients that in turn require T1 skills. Thus I flesh out the T1 skills then when I unlock something T2 it can be made, not find out I just got screwed out of skill point that I can’t use to make something with, without sinking even more points into other T2 skills. Then the tier 2 skills are required to craft the tier 3 items.

-Convolution
At this point I have crafted a significant chunk of the recipes. Here is what I see. Your crafting system was originally designed, then added onto then added onto multiple times, then in attempts to consume useless items from the game you further modified it.
You have the table -> workshop -> extractor, compactor, refinery, mixer, then spark, now power coils.

Simply put it is a mess that does not really follow any kind of structured logic. Here I am crafting a sign at a refinery, lolwut.
And I’m reading your about to addon even further to this with equipment mods in the forge update.

-Solution
It is time to re-organize and streamline this mess into something a player can easily understand without consulting a reference manual. If you need to be an expert to use it, the design is too convoluted.
Tier 1 wood – gathered by hand, craft by hand
Tier 2 stone, low grade metal (collapse copper and iron into 1) - gathered by each tool in the chain, crafted from table
Tier 3 high grade metal (collapse silver and gold into 1) – crafted at workshop
Tier 4 Gem crafter crafted at (better version of workshops)

Which brings us to the machines
Extractor – Drop it – shares overlap with refinery collapsed into one
Compactor – A time sink that is unrewarding and pointless, just rebalance coal instead, elimate compressed items
Mixer – This does not serve a meaningful roll, drop it
Refinery – Stays and absorbs the extractor – You can refine your fossils here

Power coils, and spark
Are pointless adds drop them all together to make crafting more fun. I want to work gather the necessary materials to make the goal item, or craft prereq items. Power, and spark are such unsatisfying add-ons that just feel forced rather than relevant components to the product. I would rather add more requirement items to the recipe than these, at least gathering those would feel more satisfying.

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I dont think they should get rid of power coils AND spark. Just make them a generator and can have different tier of generators that allow for more complicated advanced recipes for more advanced machinery at each tier. It would bring it more in line with how other crafting games our. They could be required for say, pistons, chain saw, or other house cosmetic items. Having both spark and power coils seems like the same thing, just in different forms. Redundant and could easily be consolidated down into one thing.

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I was thinking that since they said that Boundless’s background is “unexplainable technology,” why still have such some highly coupled machine?

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Many of the recipes as of the new update have gotten out of control, imo.
For example; Glue is now very difficult to gather due to the high cost and the fact you now need glue to gather glue unless you want to run around using a stone sling with everything. For glue, I think it needs another recipe that also allows for other resources to be used instead of bone. Sap is easy to get, bone can be difficult if you don’t have a steady supply of iron slingbows or better. That is a big problem. Same for basic mining tools now as well. It was a pain to gather enough glue BEFORE the update. Now theres no way to keep up with the need for it.

Heres what I think we need for crafting recipes:

  1. Reduce the number of different items required for crafting basic tools. This applies to all tiers. Even gem tools are now needlessly expensive and rely far too much on a ton of hard to gather and rare items. Keep the hard to gather stuff to augments/item upgrades instead.
  2. Keep in mind the crafting balance when putting together a crafting recipe. Seriously. This it the biggest issue I have with the new recipes. The slingbow item reqs are a good example. Glue is hard to gather now. So is cloth, at least reliably since Fibrous plants… don’t drop fibrous leaves. Yucca plants drop the most fibrous leaves now and they tend to be hard to find. Thats a big balance issue. Esp since ALL tools now have this exact same bottle neck. This game should be fun, not a hassle to create basic tools.
  3. In the name of all thats holy, let us repair power coils without a gem tool! Are you kidding me?!?

I’ll have more later but those are the big issues for me.

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I have some irritation regarding powercoils. I like all the other complexities, though it needs balancing in areas. I haven’t started down my crafting career yet mainly because I have no desire to completely rebuild my entire base of operations to this huge ■■■■ building big enough to stack a ■■■■ ton of stupid power coils around all of my machines.

@Phoenxflame so your saying the answer is not get rid of the power coils, but “add” more recipes and make it more complicated than it is for more use? I say just get rid of them and let the recipes stay in the all ready expansive machines we already have. We have more machine types than most mmo’s.

This is of course my opinion.

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I don’t disagree with the complexity of the coils, but the rest of the machines are relatively cheap to craft except the spark cores of course. The thing is that they are only one time purchases though. They don’t adhere to the normal consumption rates like tools do.

We did take a lot of time to plan our new workspace but I definitely agree that the amount of space the coils take up is odd. When picturing a newer players thought process, I assume that it will be much easier to transition with the knowledge that they will have to make changes to their workspace. I don’t think getting rid of them is a good solution as the devs spent a lot of time prepping them, but I do think opinions from fresher eyes will be able to paint a picture that is more clear for what direction the devs should take to alleviate some of our troubles.

EDIT: Realizing you said expansive and not expensive… whoops my bad @Zina

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I guess I may be alone, but now I’ve gotten used to the update, I don’t have a problem with power coils, or the new complexity of crafting.

I didn’t necessarily feel that way for a few days after it dropped, because it felt like such a big leap. But now there feels like there is a distinction between entry-level crafting and ‘endgame’ crafting, and I actually like that it feels hard to be able to get to a point where you can craft the best items in the game. This may be the first time that the range of crafting complexity has been in the game, and whatever we might think about what it feels like now - in Early Access - the point of this process is to get it right for when it actually all matters. Which is full launch. If I was a designer for Boundless and at full launch there’s a full wipe, I don’t think I’d want crafters popping out dozens of diamond hammers for sale 48 hours later. In most MMOs there’s some kind of gating between starting out and doing the ‘best’ stuff (whether that’s crafting, raiding, etc) and coils is just part of that.

Once you get the coils, and a spanner to go with each type, there’s no ongoing cost to them. Plus, the added benefit of having more than you strictly need is that it speeds up crafting times too.

In terms of the space taken up, I don’t know why you wouldn’t just create a basement and stick the machines/cores/storage down there. While I don’t think there’s a lot of point in comparing real-life manufacturing processes to a fantasy computer game design, you don’t see many car production lines set out in the forecourt of a garage.

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Overall I do agree with philelliott

plus: i believe that crafting shouldn’t be for everybody, shouldn’t be easy nor should be just an “ingredients list” to grind. I would like to see a big gap in wich you choose: crafter or explorer?
and than, again, crafter: builder or armor/weapon?
and explorer: adventurer? warrior? healer? Balanced?

long story short: characters to be as unique as possible, or as i prefer to see it even if it’s the same: avoid as much as possible that everybody can reach everything

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come on… it takes less than 3 minutes to gather 2 SAP and 2 BONES… in 10 minutes, if you go around searching for mobs and yucca plant, you can gather 10 bones and 7/9 fibrous leaf, SAP is not a problem at all… and anyway this is not crafting, this is gathering resources… and you don t need glue to gather glue, you can use even a totem xD example at low level: you will go mining with a stone hammer and an iron hammer (you r not going to waste iron hammer on empty stones just to go fast, cause you want to preserve it :open_mouth: but you decide to use “glue to gather glue” and then you ask for glue to be easier to get :open_mouth:

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Just my 2c- power coils are high end stuff, and I feel like I need them to be as complex to get and set up. Still, compact soft coal for free please lol

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I’ve managed to gather all the necessary resources from scratch with my level 50 character to make a full set of power coils for my workbench, I’ve just finished the same for the compactor. I’ve then used my level 36 character to do the crafting. For me the balance has felt right …still haven’t begun looking for some of the other gems yet which I know are going to be more difficult to find.
I don’t mind the power coils but I do agree that they do take up a lot of space. It would be nice if they could be a bit more compact as in the same amount of resources needed for a full set but less of them needed to achieve the same amount of power.
At first I did find the amount of new things we could make and all the different processes needed a bit overwhelming but now I think it’s actually that amount that will help players to diversify. The fact that there are so many means a single player just won’t have time to make everything which means eventually more people can find their niche.
The crafting progression still needs to be refined as well as resource bottlenecks but that’s what we’re all here to help define.

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I’ve only finished the necessary power coils for my Compactor, so I can squeeze coal into awkward shapes. Other than that, I’m waiting for them to either get toned down or go away entirely before I even think of throwing that many gems at a project.

And before someone tells me it’s not a lot of gems… You’re welcome to send them to me for free in-game if that’s how you feel.

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You have power plants for that that you pay to provide the power. Maybe when there is no limit to cords placed guilds will build big spark core plants with cords then laid down to people’s houses so they can craft some higher end stuff without building their own expensive set ups.

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Haha, love the concept of this. The guild’s name will be “Boundless Electric” :slight_smile:

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I’ll be the redneck living out of a disused bomb shelter with my little petrol generator making moonshine :joy::sunglasses::point_right:

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So you don’t use slingbows to gather bones? Or any other tools? Just the totem? That seems a frustrating way to to do it.
Yes, stone tools can be used, except that if you are basing anywhere except the starter planets and have no slingbows, you’ll need something better than stone for hunting. And frankly, I shouldnt be wasting 2-3 minutes for a couple bones for a BASIC crafting item now used for every single tool and many other items. I could literally be doing anything else. It should be as plentiful and easy as sap or copper or iron if its going to be used this much. And Ive never been able to gather bones in that large a quantity even with gem slingbows on ringworlds.
You disagree? Fine. Whatever. But Im not willing to add more time wasting for basic crafting ingredients to the game. I would rather be doing far more interesting things.

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Each machine has room to be overcharge 37 machines all overcharge capable and all connected to a spark core.

unknown-8
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What i am saying is condense spark and power coils into one machine, and having them connected to certain crafting tables unlocks higher tier recipes, or be used to power or operate machinery driven blocks, like pistons, levers, elevators or similar devices. It could just be a generic power source. Having both spark to power recipes, and power coils to power things is redundant.

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I have read what you guys said.

-Smooth Progression
I agree end game should be challenging, but you also have to keep in mind that tools are consumed by usage in this game. Thus the balance to be struck is between the progression of complexity, against the value of taking the time to make the item. Right now the current meta is such that it is a waste of time to do all the work to craft or dare even use a gold or gem item with the exception of being force to ie mine the gem hard coal. That relegates those items to fringe usage in the game. There needs to be a smooth progression uphill in crafting. At moment it is a cliff you walk up to, and after you do the work and see how fast it deteriorates you realize that was not worth the effort. I will just use lower grade tools for everything.

-Threshold of effort for reward
I can adapt to the system, there no doubt of that. The real question is will a player stick with playing crafting or become frustrated and quit. Fanatics will put up with all sorts of ■■■■, but the general population that the game is being designed for will not. If you make the process unfun to where they don’t keep making periodic progress they are likely to become frustrated and give up. That is not good because the goal is to keep them engaged having fun and playing.

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I think the key is to adapt with change. Sometimes I get so involved in my game, I forget I signed up pre alpha and I really liked doing so. Most likely we will not be able to keep anything we have now anyway once it goes live. I actually have nothing to complain about. This is what we signed up for. I love being a backer and need to remember we are early test subjects. Our builds now is just a practice run.

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