This is why I said what I did quite a bit further up in the thread:
To be honest, I can accept that the forge has an RNG component and that it makes me waste time and materials sometimes – while I do wish there were diminishing returns on the “bad luck” aspect, I mostly dislike having to make the several different components, since most of the time, I don’t remember to make them before I need them.
On this, just another brainstorming, I know it has been suggested to have a demo world, something where people could try out the game for free to help to see if it is their thing. If we had something like that, a world where progress wouldn’t carry over to the regular part of the universe, sort of like test but with regular rules of the current universe, maybe a separate character needed there too though but can freely access whenever, then we could also maybe add in a second planet to that as well that could be creative/tutorial mode? So one planet normal play, one a teaching world, to show the game and mechanics. We then could create whatever we think might help, and devs could provide options to warp directly to the places they think best from the menu to all. Like, someone might create Forge City, have lots of tutorial signs around. Playing with it freely with lots of tips and direct how-tos right in front of them could help a lot of people.
I think this is a good thing to note. We have the excel document that the community made…but in game, how would you know that Vulnerable gum did that so easily?
I am very excited for some UI changes that would tell us that sort of stuff like what gums give what buffs so you can do this so easily without outside stuff.
I like forging the weapons and bombs, but not the tools, it is too much of a roll of the dice and you can get wiped out when it is finished and not know what you did wrong.
I think the quirks and such are a waste, along with some of the mats; why unstable boon needed, corrupted boon, imperfect boon, gambling paste, fate reversal paste, why glow when I seem to get it all the time and I never use glow, so I end up having to use the boon removal which costs me mats and a couple spins which I can usually need. It shouldn’t show up unless I put in the glow gum. Those are just a few that I think are a waste of time and take space, I used to make some to sell in the shop, but no one was buying them, so don’t see why they are needed. But that is just me, maybe there are some that like to use them.
What I think would make it easier would be to add two more slots. I’ve lost count of how many times I had to take one gum or paste out so I could use another and then find out after I had started that I needed that one. Fate Paste, I use most of the time Fate 2 but when I have enough rolls for 4 more I don’t want to waste a Fate Paste 2 when the 1 would do just fine, or I want both Protection and Stabilization but with what I put in there is room for only one. Just two extra slots I think would be of help.
Have written down all the steps and the times for each step of the persisting pie, it really is not so much complex, gut time consuming when you are making several mass crafts and don’t have a lot of machines.
@james Please consider adding too more slots to the centraforge to help with the forging, especially now that you added the V gum. (not even going to attempt to spelling right now, tired, having enough with the simple words in spelling them right).
So are refinery, oort, oortian, portal, warp, etc., etc. It’s a game, expect to learn game specific words that even might have a meaning in normal English…
Something else that I would like is a way to make a list as an inventory item that I could hold in my characters hand. That way I could easily keep track of the items I need while running around my bases or out gathering. I tend to get distracted too easily with all the pretty things around 
… this would help me keep on task!! 
… well at least in theory!!
Problem is, if you do that, you get endless anecdotes from the active veterans here who say everything is perfectly fine the way it is and you should just go find a new game.
There’s a real hostility towards anyone who criticizes certain parts of the game, which the OP is rightly aware of.
It’s why I made the thread I made, to draw out the players who are guilty of just this attitude, and they came out as predicted. I did so to prove this thread right, to prove that anyone who dares to suggest certain parts of the game aren’t fun or need improvement are met with endless anecdotes and calls to leave the game, as though the small community here feels they’ve laid claim to the game with their extended presence, and any ideas must be vetted by them first.
With the exception of a handful of people on the forums, the majority of active users here are antagonistic toward anyone who suggests ways to improve the game for themselves instead of the existing playerbase, and are instead met with countless reasons for why it’s their fault they aren’t enjoying the game, as opposed to discussing ways to change the game so everyone can have fun. They use anecdotes from one or two users as though that represents the thousands of people who have tried Boundless and quit.
Boundless has become the One Ring, and many active users on here are clasping it, shuddering, and muttering about, all in their efforts to monopolize what this game has to offer, and what it could offer.
It’s their precious.
Why it’s so hard for some people here to admit that parts of the game they enjoy and see no problem with, were at least partly responsible for lacking player retention rates is troubling to say the least.
It says a lot that when someone suggests an idea, the first response they usually get is, ‘Well that’s not needed because I had no problem with it’, instead of, “You know, I personally didn’t have a problem with that aspect of the game, but I can see many other people have expressed issue with it, so maybe we should try to find a solution that everyone can agree with, and help grow the game more?”
It’s unfortunate, because in the recent “Ruins” thread, some users attempted just this, to bridge the gap, find common ground around a new idea and discuss how it might be added. They explained the possible technical difficulties it might require, but they were needlessly antagonized by others in the thread, despite literally, actually, agreeing that ruins would be a fun game mechanic to be added.
If Boundless is to become Boundless, it needs to cater to all players and simplify systems so casuals can enjoy it. Some steps have been made toward that end, like making warps home free, but many more steps must be taken. That won’t happen if so many criticisms toward the game are grinded in a mortar and pestle instead of embraced and attempted to be assimilated.
It’s depressing. Instead of discussing ways to improve the game, often people are met with anecdotes of, “Well I enjoy it, so it’s fine.” or “Find a new game.” or memes and snark.
It is not the community’s job to patch holes in the game.
If people keep walking into portal networks and getting lost and dying from radiation, it’s nice that people colored the floor tiles to help people navigate their way back, but they shouldn’t have needed to do that. It was the devs responsibility to fix it, and they found a bandaid by making portals home free.
If people get stuck at a gem wall, powerleveling them with massive group hunts, suggesting they make tons of alts, and telling them to make a rock crafting room to boost their level, all so they can make coin and XP and use end-game gear to bypass mid-game is NOT a good solution to the problem. See this thread 60hrs in, me and my friend hit a bit of a wall. Any advice? - #57 by Nightstar
If someone wants to take a break from the game, and doesn’t want to come back with nothing when the beacon expires, it’s nice for the community to pay for Gleam Club for them or beacon up their stuff, but they shouldn’t have to! it doesn’t address the countless other people who have posted on the Steam forums and elsewhere, saying they came back to nothing and lost all motivation to play the game. At the very least, a welcome back package based on each users’ level makes sense. If you quit the game at level 50, and your beacons expired, the game should award you with a 3X3 AOE and gem coils, among other things.
The list goes on. There is such a lack of cohesive direction right now on these forums. A large percentage of the ideas presented don’t get commented on by the developers, and those that do get lost in the shuffle. We need a central location with a list of every complaint heard and being worked on, as well as every idea definitively shot down, so even if, by some miracle, the community stopped gunning each other down for ideas that go against the norm, we could actually coordinate our feedback into something useful.
But hey, why do all that when we can just whine and complain other people want to have fun, amirite?
What do you feel the mid-game is? Should new players be expected to use alloy tools when it is easier now to use gems tools? Is it how hard the Blocks are to damage at later levels?I’m not trying to be sarcastic, just curious. A lot of players have put a lot of work in to make everything more accessible for the player base, I don’t see this as a bad thing. Players working together to advance.
I think a more ‘in your face tutorial’ would do wonders.
[quote=“MinerDiggerMan, post:148, topic:33092”]
I did so to prove this thread right, to prove that anyone who dares to suggest certain parts of the game aren’t fun or need improvement are met with endless anecdotes and calls to leave the game, as though the small community here feels they’ve laid claim to the game with their extended presence, and any ideas must be vetted by them first.
[/quote] what you think is improvements and fun is completely utterly subjective. Saying the game needs an overhaul isn’t talking about improvements. An overhaul means you keep very little and redo it. So you didn’t prove anything but if someone suggests to redo the game many love you’ll get many opposing arguments.
Every game needs improvement but from I’ve seen and the majority of the time the “vets’ buck back “ when it’s not actually improving game it’s changing the game. it’s often about removing things from the game and not adding to it.
You’re right about some veterans but don’t fool yourself thinking they don’t have insight about the game. There isn’t a veterans club where we exclusively talk to each other and no one else. Their voices most of the time represent the people they also play with which are of all levels in the game. So their voices are important because the game wouldn’t of made it this far without them. I agree there shouldn’t be a need for them to be vetting everything, it is and should be the devs but this is forums so it’s to be expected that people will raise their voice.
The irony here is your completely guilty of the things you accuse veterans of doing.
Except I’m not.
All I’ve done is propose ways to improve the game by adding content that can appeal to the people who have left, or did not enjoy the game.
You must not understand irony.
This just isn’t true. It’s sad you think this. Far more people have tried and quit Boundless than stayed. @wade44423 Has seen many of them come and go in his city. Why such an emphasis on catering to the people who remain, when there’s such a drought of active players?
My suggestions of easing grind for solo players, and improving the gem wall grind, or making it easier for people to find shops, are all compatible with current gameplay systems, and would not harm vet’s. It would not TAKE things from them like you claim.
But expecting people here to argue in good faith, besides a handful, is pretty much impossible as I can see. There’s a real cult-like mentality around those who remain in this game now, and even when I extend an olive branch, it gets torn off by the active users I speak of, because they just, cannot, accept, changing the game so more people can enjoy it.
It truly is their precious.
I’ve seen players come in go in every single game I’ve played, like I’ve said on another post I’ve been a hardcore gamer for over 35 years so I come from total experience. If you could show me actual numbers about player retention and it shows boundless is above average then I’d have a tendency to lean more towards your direction. I but I honesty think it’s most likely at the same average as most.
People forget this company is small and the game at the moment is small by design. They could easily grow the game with some marketing but it wouldn’t help them. After the umbris planets it’s clear that they couldn’t handle a large influx of players. The fact that left over rocks could make people rubber band for hours shows that even adding a few hundred active players would cause some problems with servers. So the the community isn’t growing fast is partly because of this, it’s by design. One month of this game free on ps plus and it would triple the community but could also break the game. I have full faith this game will grow but I believe they are doing it right by taking their time.
Making the grind less for solo players is something game companies rarely do, it’s unfortunate but they don’t. Besides Minecraft and FPS almost every game requires you to have interactions with other to get to the end game. That’s how games are now, especially MMO’s. I bet you can’t name one mmo where you can get to end game without playing with a single person. This game is no different.
You think it’s sad that I think a lot of the vets represent all voices and you say it’s untrue but I’m living proof. I made the co op slides in kada and talk to players on every level. From the hardcores and the once in a whiles. I’ve dealt and talked to a good percentage of this community because of my co op. So if this applies to many it most likely applies to many veterans also.
If you lessen the grind for new and solo your also pretty much lessening the grind for vets also which will create the same gap you want to remove.
If you were a game développer what would you do? Focus on the things that made people quit which will be a constant struggle or improve On thé things that is making people stay in the first place.
Bandwagon on the idea of a “core” skill page.
Even if it’s a question of paying double points to apply a skill there, I’d pay for it, if it meant those skills would stick across ‘specs’.
Also, some outfit options would be really awesome. The colour setup is neat, but I’m boggled that I can make a portal to another planet but not a pair of pants.
world of warcraft i got to max level and doing the end game content right now without ever joining a single party…same with EVE online when i played that game i got a capital ship without ever being in a corp
most MMO’s i play being in a group or doing dungeons with other players can speed things up but its still easy to get to endgame without other players the only expectation i can think of is final fantasy online where the dungeons where part of the main story so you could not avoid not grouping with other players if you wanted to advance
but the key with those MMO’s is quests when i can say turn in 100 spicy beans to a NPC for XP and coin that massively boosts solo power
has a développer it sucks but you got to work on both improving the game means nothing if you are just doing it for a stagnant playerbase that is only getting smaller cuz you are not releasing end game content fast enough to keep them hooked. but if you also work on what’s causing new-mid game players to quit that is less pressure to be constantly releasing new content cuz you are balancing the exits with entrances.
So I was wrong you, named 2 games out of hundreds. Congrats you really got me there.
It’s an absolute waste of time for developers to concentrate on why people are quitting. Why? Because those people will just find another reason they don’t like game.
Again I’ll say this, provide me with actual numbers and evidence of your claims about the player base and ill change my opinion. I’ll be willing to bet that your basing your opinion not on facts but personal experience of you and a few friends.
I bought this game multiple times and I have 22 characters at level 50 and another 8 over level 20 so please explain to me this difficult grind? I got all those characters up completely solo. It’s a matter of wanting to put effort over I want easy mode.
Boundless is a cake walk if you actually want to put effort in it. The only thing as far as new players go is they should have a better tutorial.
that sounds a awful lot like you are basing your opinion on personal experience as well
the fact is none of us have “all the facts” when it comes to anything about the game. what seems like a cakewalk to one person can be a grind fest to someone else and we cant let ourselves get in the mind set of “facts or get out” otherwise we may as well delete the suggestions category and never voice our concerns over a gameplay change or patch.
It’s pretty clear I was speaking about my personal experience and never suggested it wasn’t. It was please tell me how difficult the grind is and not please tell the community. Huge difference between saying these are the reason people are quitting. I’m speaking on behalf of myself compared to you guys speaking out for those who quit and you’ve never spoken to.
Yep. That’s part of the echo chamber here. Everybody who still plays Boundless obviously enjoyed it enough to keep playing. So the feedback they give on these forums doesn’t reflect the desires of any of the countless people who quit.
They don’t realize statements like these are anecdotes. They are exactly what proves my point that its an echo chamber.
Many people here rely on anecdotes to attempt to prove their point, throwing all nuance out the window because they are incapable of realizing there’s a ton of people who disagree with them, they just aren’t on the forums anymore because they quit.
It’s like a human going to an ant eaters restaurant and saying, “You know, you guys might get more business if you sold food besides ants,” and their response is, “I’m fine with ants, we all are, it’s YOUR problem you don’t like ants. We don’t don’t need to change, YOU need to change.”
To which, the human responds by walking away, just like people walk away from Boundless.
People here don’t realize the very nature of them still being here creates bias in their arguments because they wouldn’t be playing still if they didn’t inherently like the design already, which means they aren’t able to naturally understand why people might dislike it, and why they can only rely on anecdotes or telling people to leave.
sorry i miss read it
And herein lies the source of your mistake. We were very active in Discord, Steam Forums, Steam Reviews, and these forums, and there have been COUNTLESS people who have left single thread goodbyes or complaints and walked away for precisely the reasons we’ve detailed.
But these comments get lost in the shuffle, because the people who loved the game never paid them any mind, and just kept on playing.
Your analogy here is flawed. It’s the same as telling a burger place they need to serve pizza or a vegan restaurant needs to serve steak. It is okay to cater to a specific audience and once successful with that group choose to expand or not to expand whom you are trying to attract.
All you offer on here is complaints, bad analogies, anecdotes about why others have quit, and made up data. When have you suggested an actual solution. Like a better tutorial, decrease the block health on higher planets, or something else?