You know u r arguing with someone who has at least 10 -15 m in the game right ?
And you want to convince him ur market theory is correct ?
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Using the market as a reference is pretty useless in this game I think.
Why?
There is no value in coins in the End-game. Once you get past the first million coins, itās just another more or less useless collection. There is no incentive to get more coins, there are no money sinks in the game.
So there is need to sell anything, so no need to adapt your prices in order to sell more then your competition.
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I agree they should be balancing for the average user. High end forge hammers are some way off but base bombs are much easier to get.
I really hope this doesnāt lead to the kind of balancing in other MMOs where everything is made equally ineffective.
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I personally want to mine with a hammer. All they gotta do is either make Aoe easier to get or have a perk system or a skill system that lets Mining specād players have another way to find gems. Like maybe add something in addition to the Atlasā¦ but it would only be available with lots of points specād into gathering/ mining. Or a perk that activates when you have mined a certain amount of rocks or broken a certain amount of hammers that resets every week.
I think bomb mining is kind of stupid and I do believe that it can be psychologically more fun because it is more effecient.
Maybe add a coffer that activates once certain mining threshholds are met with random gem rewards.
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I was mulling over last night how being able to replace the old Diamond base tools with an Epic Skill that gives a low level base AoE of e.g. 1x3 in line with a forge tool might be a good way forward.
There are quite a few things Iām surprised are not available as Skill lines so you can flex between equipment and skill sets to meet needs.
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You made too large a leap here. It is very possible for the efficacy of hammer mining and bomb mining to be equivalent, but the supply of gems to drop. Assuming demand is largely unchanged, supply would drop if there were fewer miners, or if miners hadnāt adopted the most efficient techniques yet.
OP said that methods were equivalent, but that bomb mining was more fun. If an activity is more enjoyable, it will attract more participants. I think we can all imagine that some people who enjoyed bomb mining but not hammer mining would move to buying gems instead of mining their own after the nerf.
I think we have seen more a change in the number of participants suppling gems to the market than the efficacy of miners dropping so greatly.
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Eh Iāve stated how they can nerf bomb mining and make it still viable like it once was. Make a boon āspecial categoryā that requires 2500 boon points and it lowers damage done to resources at the levels it used to be. Hammers suck unforged. Look at the forums if you disagree with me because I was fine with getting so many things with just iron hammers.
What this will do is make it so if you forge it, you can get a bunch of stuff done nicely with it. You running around with good hammers is because you got to that point you donāt just START OFF at it. So all your complaining seems to be is just that. Complaining. A titanium bomb unforged could easilyā¦ EASILY out perform an AoE hammer with no damage up and no speed up. You NEED damage up for higher level planets. thatās 2 boons needed. What did bomb need in the forge? Here lemme just put it in there with longevity and nothing else. WOW LOOK AT THAT DOUBLED THE RANGE. please think about hammer miners too before you throw out complaints
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Iron hammer lol
how many gem u can get in 1 hour ? 10 ? 40?
he is talking about 600+ in 1 hour for the best hammer in current patch.
Let me do a list for you for compare the ābomb miningā and current āHammer Miningā
Unforge Titan bomb is garbage for us too, how much u could get with that ?
around 70 - 90 gems / 1 hour,
9 block Titanium hammer around 40 - 80 gems / 1 hour
(how difficult for you to forge a lvl 4 aoe boon ?)
**The best bomb in old patch you can get 650 - 720 gems / 1 hour **
The best hammer in New patch you can get 600 -700 gems / 1 hour
The difficulty to forge those 2 tools are similar.
For Best bomb forge (area range 7m), you need to use gem bomb to forge, and u need to use a lot of removal solvent to remove the healing / regen / damage / energy / status boon. (Thats really a lot of boon you want to ignore)
Also you have to make the area boon effect to lvl 10 which is really difficult to do that.
The Best hammer forge, you need to stop Aoe boon at lvl 4, and you need to get at max lvl damage / action speed boon (which is really difficult too)
The bombās problem is for the titanium forge bomb at area range 4m - 6m
(You can do it really easy with titanium bomb forge)
This is the only moment bomb can do more effective than the aoe hammer.
You know why no one used hammer mining ? Because Merlin just find out this method after the bomb mining nerf.
No one could forge a best aoe hammer, because no one knew we could do that until he post the method again on the forum (I told him many times donāt share at this stupid forum).
If you only use iron hammer to mine, i guess all the method i mention are still hard to you.
For me, i donāt think we are talking about same thing at the end.
I am the first tier of people start the āNew bomb miningā after patch 1.0 (New University)
I am the one who calculate all the skill set for our guild members.
The difference between me and merlin is he share the method on forum, but i donāt.
I know people here will start crying for over power.
Before Jivitas upload the video you should see how many people post article to complain about bomb mining sucks.
After they knows the way, they start asking for the nerf.
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I donāt agree with everything youāve said, but I think you hit on a few points that are worth paying attention to.
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You talk about just using iron hammers. Everyone just uses iron hammers. Gold and silver hammers are useless as-is and need a major buff. I donāt think itās fair to complain that iron hammers are outperformed by titanium bombs. There are 3 material levels between those two, of course titanium should outperform iron.
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Centraforge buffs are difficult to use. The centraforge is resource hungry, difficult to understand at a basic level to get any kind of output, and difficult to control the outputs of. If the forge had better instructions, more people would use it to greater effect.
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Some bomb boons has a really powerful effect. Scaling up bomb radius has an exponential effect. I donāt know if there is ever a fair way to have bomb radius positively impact bomb mining. Comparing the effect to hammer AoE or other boons bomb radius is much more powerful.
All that said, I donāt see bomb mining coming back anytime soon. There is a weird notion that admitting one has made a mistake or over reacted is a sign of weakness. And the devs seem weirdly devoted to gold and silver hammers not having a place in this game. I have no idea why. Swift and Heavy should probably be removed from base hammers the same way AoE was removed from gem hammers, but that would probably just feel like another big mining nerf.
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Hammer miners whining have ruined bomb mining for no great reason. Even if bombs early game are more powerful then hammers, it isnāt a reason to completely get rid of it. A very easy way to shift the balance for early/mid game is to just reduce the bomb radius. Donāt add an extra step. Everyone wants to just keep adding bandaids with clever ideas. Bomb mining was perfect the way it was. Hammer mining is ridiculously op for so many reasons. 35k rock in 30-60 mins= 500k xp, yet they nerf bomb mining xp?! Bomb miners need a better voice and Iām trying to help with that. A majority of new and old players disagreed with the last 199 patch for good reason. It was loud people like you that got it nerfed.
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I am guessing it was more the development team and internal data that got it nerfed. Labels and blame arenāt helping.
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Wasnāt there a dev post/note in the patch saying something to the effect of ābomb mining produced orders of magnitude more gems than hammer miningā based on their metrics. We can, of course, question if they are interpreting that data correctly, but that seems way out of whack.
It will be just theoretical, numbers taken from nowhere. If you have a very fun activity A that gives you N items in period P of time, and a very boring activity B that gives you N + N/2 items in period P of time. Logic will dictates that activity B should give more items in period P, right? But metrics will probably show that for every M players in period R actually activity A brings magnitude of items more than activity B. It all boils down to how you really read those metrics. There is a saying I know: There are little lies, big lies, and... statistics With enough data you can read whatever you want to read from that data. Presenting results like
is worthless to me without telling what methodology was used to draw such conclusions.
And to be clear I canāt say ā ā ā ā about whether the devs were right or wrong. I didnāt see the data nor know their methodology 
I can only say about my feelings, and I had much more fun using simple iron, forged bombs (4 per hole on T5 world) than with any hammer.
I hammer mine because i use/ sell the rock. Also, i get a bit more xp than i did bomb mining. Yet i bomb mined when i was going for gems (forged iron bombs, iron hammer ).
I feel we kind of skipped over the step where bomb minig didnāt shower you in xpā¦ i think that change (If given a bit of time) would have settled the field quite a bit. If mid level players only bomb mined as soon as they could, xp would dry up and they would have to reconsider. If Iām swimming in extra rock Iād rather go bomb, knowing that some other activity would be needed to get xp (And you get nothing to build with).
Aside from that, Iām pretty sure that about a month or two ago there was similar outrage about how OP bombs were and that some people were calling quite fervently for a change? You cant satisfy everyone all the time, but i think this last patch came juuust a bit too soon. Iād have loved to see bombers running out of xp and switching back to hammers
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As a DnD player I always hesitate to say āYour fun is wrong,ā especially in a game where there isnāt really competition, but I do have to question, as others have, was bomb mining really fun, or was it just the fastest way to get what you wanted, and thus the least unfun?
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if it where about fun, then there would be not a problem at all.
you can still blast cheeze tunnels with bombs, nothing stops anybody from doing that.
the only difference: less ressources than before.
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I watch netflix while I mine for diamonds. I almost have enough for my first power coils. I am happy.
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I see a few people say this. It feels like a failure of the game if you need secondary entertainment too to be able to enjoy it. 
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Bomb mining IMHO was more entertaining, you need to dig hole, put bombs in it, and then dig very fast what was left hanging in the middle so you could one shot it with hammer, before it got back full HP. Then you had to mine anything that was discovered on the side and you wanted to mine (i didnāt mine soft coal or copper on T5, so I left it). It was simply more engaging. With hammer, itās not so engaging, well it is with AOE super fast hammer thatās 1 shooting blocks. But itās much harder to such hammer than to use unforged iron bombs. And to be honest my yield with bombs wasnāt so great either. I could get 100+ gems per bombing session, but I am able to do so with iron hammers too (i did before i discovered bombs, my first 360 diamonds, and lot of other gems were dug with iron hammer). For me bombing was a minigame of sorts on its own.
I say this:
But without thus. It simply was least unfun. I didnāt choose bomb mining because of the yield, but because of it being engaging.
Itās like with my jobā¦ I generally hate people, hate working with them, especially when they are my customers, because frankly most of customers are dumb. Being younger, I had a choice, get a factory work, do same thing over and over again for 8 hours, or become a computer salesmanā¦ i choose the latter because having to speak to customers, etc. was much less unfun than being a factory worker (later I became a programmer, and donāt have to deal with boredom or people at work 
but itās different story). And itās same with bombs.
Iād rather do other stuff than mining gems, but If i want them Iād rather bomb-mine them than hammer-mine them. But now, after nerf, and trying bomb-mining for some time I see the time cost to results ratio with titan hammers on T6 outweighs greatly bomb-mining. Bomb-mining even if less unfun yields way way to little mats, to outhweight the hammer mining. For my personal taste itās too unbalanced.
Or in other words. Taking into consideration all of those: materials return, time invested, and enjoyability factor, I donāt like bomb-mining anymore, I hate strip mining, but still enjoy a bit spelunking. Pre nerf I enjoyed spelunking and bomb-mining. And They took one of those things.
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thatās why I like mining games thoā¦ If I didnāt want to watch shows and/or chill with friends Iād play something more intense. This is a casual game after allā¦ I donāt see that as a failure.
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