The main issue I have with patch 199 is the irony of it. They took a supposedly OP method that more and more people were working towards, were finally getting access too and removed it entirely because their analytics showed that the majority of gems mined were from bomb mining and not hammer mining. Was there thought that perhaps the main reason their analytics weighed more heavily towards gems being mined from bomb mining is because IT IS MORE FUN, and not because it is more OP.
Over the past week I have been following and working towards obtaining a the best hammers in order to compare the effectiveness of max level farming with hammers to that previously obtained with the best bombs. The results seem to show that those farming with top tier gear are consistently getting roughly 300-600 gems an hour. Very comparable to that obtained with bomb mining. It is my opinion that they have misread their analytics, removed something way more fun then strip mining that wasn’t even better.
End result -> removed fun for a lot of people in the game and did nothing to diminish the speed of progression/balance. I should caveat that by saying it really only hurt the new players who had already put so much effort into getting into bomb mining.
Before 1.0 it was more balanced between the two because hammers came already with AOE effects now you gotta forge them and that is a painful system. If they were simpler to make I can see more people using them, at 1.0 it seemed that hammers were a transition towards bombs, not something to match bombs effectiveness. If they wanted to balance them out I would have preferred to bring hammers up to speed with bombs such as cheaper forge recipes, or easier to target AOE effects.
It’s great that you’ve been testing the highest end to determine which is literally better at max efficiency. It’s awesome to see someone actually testing before coming to conclusions ,
That being said, I’d suggest that it was very unbalanced though in terms of effort input vs yield for your average user, and believe that is who you should be concentrating on when trying to balance different approaches to the same content.
It might also be worth asking whether Bomb mining was more fun, or just less effort (which in turn makes it more fun). From my observation, Bomb mining is just a case of:
Use spreadsheet to get right skills
Arrive at destination
Use bombs
finish off resource blocks and scoop up profit.
That is a lot less effort having to hammer through the same number of blocks in turn, even with an decent AoE hammer.
Of course, that does lead to questions of ‘Did Bomb mining need to be balanced down, or did Hammer mining need to be balanced up?’, but I do think they’ve read the metrics right in comparing hammer vs bomb mining for the majority of users.
As a side note, I’m not saying I agree with the extent of Bomb mining’s downgrade. I do think it should be a little more efficient at resource gathering because you’re not getting rocks and the extra XP for breaking them.
I’m not going to argue that the very top tier of equipment for strip mining is or isn’t comparable to top tier bomb mining. The best forged hammers may well be comparable to the best forged bombs. But at lower levels, an unforged/averagely forged bomb does far outstrip an unforged/averagely forged hammer, and that’s what more people will be using.
Have you seen Nevir’s post on acid bombs as a replacement for bomb mining that would allow the devs greater facility to fine-tune the experience? It might be worth supporting
OH and another thing OP about these hammers? Every hammer gives me about 35k rock which I can turn into 500k xp. So every hammer I go through gives me 2.5 lvls. Talk about OP. I can go through a topaz hammer with speed/dmg in 30 mins. 5 lvls post lvl 50 in 1 hr. 20 hrs mining can get me a max 150 character.
Great hammer. And its not that hard to make. Draining compound, few gums, catalysts. If you start forging it can be overwhelming. But the main point is you dont have to do this at once. Slowly gather mats, make mass crafts and thats it. 2 mass crafts of needed forge ingridients can last for ages. And yes that mining is much better than bombs. XP is like cherry on top.
The whole problem was/is that bomb mining was no brainer. Thats why ppl complain. And I am sure proper hammer will be even greater time saver. Just need put alot of effort first (coils) Nowadays effort is bad, better get all on silver platter
Yea, I 100% agree. Bomb mining was more fun, and it was an accessible way for newer players to AOE mine without the forge, which eased progression a bit for newer players. But the end-game forged versions of each were very comparable. And I’ll say what I’ve been saying, before 199, in my opinion, both methods of mining were pretty on par with eachother. You can yield close to the same large amounts of resources, one was more fun, the other gave extra rock and xp. I thought each had their pros and cons, but one wasn’t amazingggly OP compared to the other like some people seem to think. The only balance issue I can see with how bombs were is how early on players can use them, compared to a decent forged aoe hammer. Just some thoughts.
You’re questioning whether their decision based on metrics was justified. Pre nerf, Advanced coils cost between 10 to 15,000 coins. And now they are somewhere between 15000 to 25000 coins.
So your argument that current methods are better or equivalent to pre nerf prices has no merit…based on Current market prices. If current mining methods are that OP than prices would be lower
I’m open to this debate and want to understand your logic
Except availability of gems is lower for the near future due to people figuring out hammers. Once supply goes back up, prices will surely come back down
What Market data do you have to justify your position? Because at this point, it’s simply just an assumption based on anecdotal observation. And one thing I’ve learned from reading this forum is that the majority of players go through extreme mental gymnastics to justify their opinions on how the game is played or should be played
I actually do have objective data. Look up the forge mining rate poll I created and it’s discussion. Myself and multiple other miners have worked with forged diamond hammers and consistently get 300-600 gems/hr on t6 planets.
Right. I do agree that forged hammers do earn more gems per hour. However the overall Market has not shown that prices have gone down to pre nerf levels. And does anyone have data on how many gems were earned per hour of Bomb mining?
I think your post will be better stated if it question ed whether current methods are fun or not. I think you would have a better valid point. But to introduce data, which is very sparse and limited, is an ineffective approach
And by the way, for whatever it’s worth I’ve haven’t found a game where mining is ever fun. Have you? In Eve Online, mining is an AFK activity. In Rust, mining is extremely boring and a means to an end to get better gear. and I’m sure there are tons of other survival and MMO games that people can think of where mining is pretty boring. The actual activity of repeatedly pushing a button is basically mining. In every game.
I mean I was trying to be polite and mature in the analysis. I was trying to have a thoughtful analysis about this. But if you are gonna act immature in your response then we’ll just agree to disagree
So sorry, it’s 4am for me and I’m not sure I’m understanding this correctly… Deen thinks that because people raised their prices after the nerf, that that means hammer mining isn’t as good?
Why do you imply that scarcity of gems have any relation to market prices of finished goods or even rough gems? I don’t see it IRL, why should we see it in game?
Yea… makes sense. It wouldn’t have anything to do with the nerf being sprung on people, the uncertainty, people running around buying gems at high prices because they assumed the prices were going to go up and now they are trying to get their money back, etc, etc.
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I don’t see it IRL, why should we see it in game?