Mining Progression, New Hammers, T4 Worlds, a solution

I’m under the impression what’s goin’ to happen is when private servers release, all the sandbox people are gonna leave the main game, and all the hamster wheel people are gonna be left with a hybrid sandbox/survival that they then would rather jus’ be turned into a dedicated survival voxel game with meaningful hamster wheel progression I 'spose.

“You can’t just be a Gatherer alone. You can’t even rely just on money, because no action in the game even Generates money.”

Wrong, I make enough money to get by just with the FOOTFALL mechanic. That is your income. It incentivizes building… which is supposed to be a huge portion of this game. Also you can grind out goods and sell them… What in the world are you even basing this statement on?

You kinda prove my point. Reread what you and I said.

“You can’t just be a Gatherer alone.” and “I make enough money to get by just with the FOOTFALL mechanic. That is your income. It incentivizes building”

Builder is not Gatherer. Whats more, what if your a Gatherer in the middle of the wild, and not connected to or near a Settlement?

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I sincerely hope the dev team knows that their community is not large enough to support that… Common ground must be found but it certainly does seem difficult…

God bless the devs, and Godspeed, gentlemen.

Which do you prefer, @CreativeWorlds? The free stuff or the working for stuff? Just curious.

Then play a solo game, not an MMO?

Well, as I said above, I would be okay with the gem grind and hammers if I could 1-shot the Tier 5 planet rocks.

I like minin’ when I can keep movin’, but when I’m forced to hit a block 2-3 times, I get bored, because I’m movin’ like a snail.

I like caves too, and think that Serp should have lots more of those instead of solid mountains.

A full on creative mode would bore me, but I also get tired of survival games that make you eat every 10 minutes, then drink, an’ manage all kinds of stuff. I’d rather food last hours, like in real-life.

Not sure if I answered your question.

Ya you sound like you want common ground, and that is what we need.

I will say that MMO end game stuff is usually a grind for a reason… And gems are that right now.
That is the only way to keep people playing. What would you do when you have 5000 of every gem and power coil and forge item because they only take one hit to break and the mats were easy and you did it in a weekend? Etc.

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Well, like I said about hammers breakin’ rocks, it’s the speed of progress.

Tunnels, strip mining, it’s all very slow and borin’ if it takes 3 hits to break a rock.

but 1-hit to break a rock is faster, more excitin’, and cave mining is most excitin’

With bombs people got all gems they needed in no-time.

I think it’s possible for my idea to be compatible with sandbox, as you’d still be able’to take Swift Iron Hammers to T6, but if you wanted to 1-shot rocks, you could tech up to T4, then T5 first, so those who want a slower but meaningful progression could do so.

Faster is not necessarily good. What would you do with 5000 of everything and no reason to go do it again? You’d find another game. They can’t develop to that end. That makes no sense.

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Same thing happened in ARK. The official servers suck(ed). It feels like that’s the same route this game is going as far as fun and sandbox goes.

I do actually agree with the premise that too tight a control becomes a chokehold, but I interpreted this discussion a little differently.

“People should NOT go from T3 to T5.”
I don’t agree with this.

“People should NOT go from T3 to T5 because T4 has nothing to offer.”
I do agree with this.

Currently, people are kinda feeling forced to go to t5 with basic iron hammers and mining out 360 diamonds or whatever because silver and gold don’t feel like worthy upgrades, and there’s nothing else they feel they can do until they get diamonds for power for titanium…we need steps in between.

I am all for the progression curve to be fleshed out, especially in a more obvious way. I really do think that centraforging was a good t4 step that was just too weird and complicated for people to want to bother (thus making them give up before ever trying and pushing it off til “endgame”, whatever that meant), but now power requirements were added for level 2 stuff so idk about that. I think the proposed ideas here are great, especially since it’s more in line with the way people “Expect” to progress.

Side note. Setimu666, I’m not entirely sure how bomb mining kept strong players strong and weak players weak. No, really, they were a powerful springboard that let weak players catch up fast, and I now feel that the ladder has been pulled up behind the players who already got ahead. the people who have literally thousands of gems still have their gems, and weaker newcomers will have a very hard time catching up (when previously they could start making themselves some bombs to do so). I guess that will even out…with time.

I think you actually meant, it kept people who were unwilling to use bombs for whatever reason from getting “ahead” vs people who were willing to use bombs. Accessibility was never the core issue since bombs were never some inaccessible elite thing.

I genuinely don’t have any problems with bomb mining being nerfed, but I would really rather not misrepresent them that way.

Finally,

I really don’t buy the argument that because it’s an mmorpg it must necessarily include hundreds to thousands of hours of grind-based content for the sake of “slower is better” to prevent people from moving on to other games.

Pacing is a question of “how things feel”, and if, to a majority of players, the feeling that whacking rock for hours and hours and hours is BS, then no amount of “well it’s an mmorpg suck it up buttercup” is going to salvage things. This is a sliding scale, neither extreme end is good. We are currently in a weird place where it probably feels great up until gems, then it suddenly feels really bad.
A proposal to make that step less of a cliff and more of a curve is absolutely good in my books.

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Yeah I agree with that also.

As for bomb mining, it seems that the margin between it and hammer mining was enormous and not just unbalanced, with an order of magnitude difference. That is not something that can continue no matter how fun the mechanic was. But as for mining progression I agree there needs to be a step in between slowly hitting blocks one at a time with an iron hammer and then hitting the diamond wall before being able to make titanium tools. The problem lies in the modifiers to the tools, gold and silver hammers don’t seem optimal to use and it would be better to remove the traits altogether and just have a linear scaling up to the diamond wall.

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Probably the best post I’ve read all day. Thank you. Before you guys read my post, read @Studiaux 's post.

I guess I feel bomb mining the way it was kept powerful folks powerful in that I couldn’t afford to do it enough, but I was at the time when I “needed” it to progress. So perhaps that is just circumstantial. Maybe I don’t feel so because it’s me.

However I feel the end game grind is absolutely necessary to preserve the longevity of the game, but it should ABSOLUTELY be enjoyable - you can’t finish the content of the game in a sitting and still have the desire to play - but I am not one to be able to suggest how to accomplish that.

Straight up, good post Studiaux.

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I would like to chip in here - EVE Online does NOT really let you solo that well, you’re either dependant on the market or help from friends that you have made, ESPECIALLY when it comes to crafting and gathering resources.

This is both to your post and otherwise the quote you did :slight_smile:

Kinda depends on which aspect you play in EVE. Generally speaking, EVE is tough to solo unless you have lots of alts. Simple solo stuff such as building or market trading does require alts. PVP…kinda sorta if you like solo pvp…but prepare to get ganged up. But yeah, I agree that Eve isn’t solo friendly…generally speaking.

But back to the MMO thing. I think alot of people picked up this game thinking it’s a high resolution Minecraft. As such, they are trying to play a building game thinking they have unlimited resources. But they don’t. Until they introduce private severs with creative mode.

This is open sandbox MMO that has constraints on resources and time. There are opportunity cost to each aspect of the game you play. But the problem is alot of people don’t realize this yet.

I prefer the motto of “Play smarter. Avoid working harder”.

Solo in this game is working harder. Collaboration is playing smarter.

PS- I’m currently solo but will soon have my own guild as I think it’s more fun

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i like build, mining, craft, all in this game XD, but my favorite is the mining, i agree with: ‘‘what happen if you have 5000 of each gem’’? but disagree at the same time, why? its simple, when you complete your targets you dont need more of that items, but you can sell, not faster than you farm it, and you always have competition in others shops, in my case i love bomb mining, but no to get rich, i love it because i use all my resources in my build, its my target, when i finish my build, i dont need more the bomb mining, in boundless to build a good home, do you need tons, tons, tons and tons of resources to build it, with end crafts, boundless was created whit the special target to build very very god homes, the second target are the hunt, its very fun go to hunt in party, i love it too, well in my bounless experience i learn the next:

1.- you need tons of resources for your build, some player only can play on the weekends, and they progresion whitout bomb minig are very stressed, the economy is afected, if the miner extract a lot of resources with bombs are good, why? because the prices are low and all things in the game are cheapest, more accesible, that its great because the new player can buy that things and they think: ‘‘good economy’’. Many people now thought than the bomb mining its bad, but the recipes need a lot of resources, for example: the advance power coils, need titanium gems and anothers things, rare things, and the recipe need a lot of them. 360 gems are 50 compacted gem blocks, and that are 64 refined gems, ok whit that, you can craft 20 tools or 20 weapons or gears, plus another gem things, only that whit 360 rought gems, 20 for my its poor, because you need expend a lot of time to found 360 gems, and the durability its so so, and dont forget the power coils required to craft the gem things, more gems after start to craft the gem things, well in my opinion the bomb mining its good for the economy.

solution to balance the bomb mining and the hammer mining: i think in remove the forged hammer debuf, for 2 reazons: 1 dont work correctly, the tip say hit with 60% of the damage, when i equip a diamond hammer whit 8 power, epic damage, 5 hammer mastery and epic hammer mastery i hit 5500, whit a forget hammer (3x3) i hit 1700, my calculator say me than the 60% of 5500 are 3300 where i hit 3300? XD. 2 if you are spend time, resources and you are risk your forge ingredients to craft a good forged items, why add a debuff? if the devs want balance the minig bomb whit hte hammers a solution its this.

2.- boundless is no the typical game than you need a lot of money to do someone in the game,the game its based in build (again) you only enjoy the game building your dream, dont break this whit the coins please.

add: i agree whit a player (i dont remember who), he say: ‘‘the devs need eat and pay at the workers’’ yes!!! its very important this, but… for the kind of the game, the dves may be think in add more things and benefits in the shop, idk… like a events for example, if you buy cubits in this period you will recive a bonus, its a suggestion, or… whit the titans in a future update, limit the entrance, and in the shop add tickets for more daily entrances, i think, idk.

@Steggs101

add: reduce the max radious for the bombs to 5, and add another ingredient to craft bomb charges, to get more balance between hammers and bombs.

I like the idea.
But it sounds too complicated to implement at a prog level.
I was thinking about a transmute materials mechanic
Some MMOs have this system and it works rather well.
Like

Alchemist tree
Transmute materials skill
Requires 1 brew crafting lvl/1 tech (maybe it could be a total different skill tree)
144 copper ores for 36 iron ores
144 iron for 36 silver/gold
144 gold/silver for 36 titanium
36 titanium ores 1 random gem

This would allow players to just grind in low lvl planets and have a feeling of ‘progression’.

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