Mining Progression, New Hammers, T4 Worlds, a solution

Here’s how I think it should go.

Each tier/level world should be required before the next. People could go from T3 to T5 but it should be obvious doing so would be harder, and no player should ever feel they had to.

The new ore found on a planet should be able to 2-shot, or 1 shot that specific planet.

There should be three types of EVERY hammer. Swift Hammer, Damage Hammer, and Crit Hammer.

Swift Hammers would be fast, Damage Hammers would be slow with high damage, and Crit Hammers would be a mix of speed and high crit chance for the possibility of 1-shots on blocks, but also, increased damage to enemies.

Swift Copper, Heavy Copper, Crit Copper
Swift Iron, Heavy Iron, Crit Iron
Swift Silver, Heavy Silver, Crit Silver
Swift Gold, Heavy Gold, Crit Gold
Swift Titanium, Heavy Titanium, Crit Titanium
Etc.

The ore newly introduced’to each planet should be able to either 2-shot a block if swift, 1-shot if damage, or be a mix of speed and damage with crits so it can sometimes 1-shot, but also be useful against enemies.

For example,

Iron is the main new material on T3, you can make it into Heavy Iron to 1-shot blocks, or Swift to 2-shot them, or Crit to do both.

After you get Iron, you should either need’to farm a lot to find a little bit of Silver, or go to T4 and find Silver. Heavy Iron would take 2-hits to break T4, Swift 3-4 hits, and Crit 3 hits. Then you go to T5 for Gold, and in T5 Heavy Iron would take 3-shits, swift 5-6 hits, Crit 4 hits, but Heavy Silver would be 2-hits, etc. Then T6 for Titanium, then T7 would be a dual gem planets or single gem planets with unique hazards.

I think the change from the original game, where people felt it was “unintuitive” that certain blocks couldn’t break certain planet resources, has jus’ made the grind seem impossible.

People keep tryin’ to go from copper/iron straight into diamonds to get portal conduits and get burned out. Many people I see say the same thing, “How do I get portals?”

There would have been two ways’to even out progression, this is one of them. The other would each new planet had new types of rock that couldn’t be broken by Iron, which is kind of similar to real life and is actually far more intuitive. So when people mine, and they get to a certain part of the planet, the rock type changes and the tool breaks.

This idea is a mix of both linear progression, and provides options for different playstyles.

T4 planets need a use, and far too many people are rushing for diamonds to make portal conduits, then gettin’ burned out, because the progression leap is unbalanced.

9 Likes

Problem is, the universe was already reset, so changes like these would be tough.

I think the solution is to remove atmopshere protection skills completely, and instead have T3/4 worlds have a unique resource you mine/harvest and convert into an armor that protects you. This forces new players to move up the worlds gradually, not feelin’ like they are stonewalled and still feel like they are makin’ progress.

Brews… don’t interest me at all. I don’t want to farm for brews. I’d rather farm for gear.

2 Likes

Cross posting from the other thread as I really like this idea.

If you keep the “distance” between iron and Diamond/Titanium the same but add like 2-3 more steps along the way then, at least for me, you get rid of this giant fracking wall that players run up against. Maybe the grind might be too much for some in that world, that is defiantly a concern, but I think it would be more palatable if the grind yielded some periodic results instead of this weird jump from being a poor dirt farmer to Crazy Rich Oortians.

1 Like

i agree something needs to change as right now the progression/tool balance feels off,pretty sure we’re not meant to go copper>iron>titanium>gems,silver/gold just feel in a weird place right now,silver feels more like a downgrade to iron and gold is barely worth the hassle of replacing iron.

That’s what makes games fun for a lot of people in RPGs and MMO’s, a steady unlock of new things, and right now Boundless lacks that.

I agree and it’s what I based my post on. I felt like the early game introduced ya to a bunch of new cool stuff but then I hit a wall after Iron tools and got frustrated.

I learned that I enjoy strip mining ONLY if the hammer breaks a rock in 1-2 hits, if it takes 3 hits to break rock, I get bored immediately!

Otherwise I want more caves, but as I learned, caves aren’t regeneratin’ ores as much, so now cave mining is screwed up too :frowning:

2 Likes

same! i honestly get happy when i discover a new cave,sadly its far too rare :sob:

Bring bomb mining back, everything solve.
The balance was fine, just u don’t want to use it lol.

Now you are asking more changes for easier grind :joy:

I am rich enough, i don’t need devs to buff any source.
I can buy w.e i want.

That people wanted to use stone age tech suffer which is fun to me now :rofl:

1 Like

I’d rather explore a cave and get fewer resources but have a fun time doin’ it than strip mine.

And havin’ a predictable tool progression would be good too, because I’d feel like, “Oh I can tech up soon! Yayyy” or “Should I try a Swift tool next?” or maybe I want to kill some monsters a little so I go for a Crit Hammer on a higher tier world?

Games are all about disguising the grind with different types of game mechanics.

1 Like

You keep followin’ me around on the forums and makin’ passive aggressive comments. Stop.

5 Likes

Haha uh oh, I got quoted in that and not him, lol.

But yeah, if anything, this would lengthen the grind, not shorten it :stuck_out_tongue:

i dont see any mention of easier grind,just more fair,lets face it bomb mining was far more effective then intended and many got insanely rich far too fast which kills off economy before the games even been out officially a month.

2 Likes

I like your idea.
It’s close to other building games like Starbound (very linear) but add more options to keep things interesting.

This is really sad T4 are beautifull. But Instead everyone lag on the same planets.

2 Likes

There are planets that nobody can survive on permanently, even with max atmosphere resistances, unless they have buffs from certain foods. The creatures there also do ridiculous amounts of damage, even to players with max defensive skills. If you want a hardcore planet that new people cannot just jump to, those planets are it.

That’s end-game stuff, and does nothin’ to deal with the mid-game progression that’s busted atm.

1 Like

I am sorry, but I do not understand why people feel that players need to be forced to play each tier of a planet linearly in a sand box game. If a player lacks sufficient skill points, but still wants to hammer away at the armored blocks in a mine on a tier 5 planet inefficiently, then why spoil their fun? In my opinion, mid-game progression is just leveling to 50 to get a complete skill build.

Because a lot of people are unhappy with progression being broken.

Whether or not it’s a sandbox is irrelevant. There’s a problem with mid-game progression.

Edit It’s an MMO-Sandbox, not a sandbox. If it were a sandbox, there wouldn’t be a skill tree anything like there is now.

They only do this because they feel that’s what the game expects them to do, and silver and gold tools are almost useless anyways at that point for’em.

1 Like

Yeah, but still, why force them to go through planet tiers? Slow down progression? Sure, but forcing them to play on a track is not sandbox-ey. Let them decide for themselves where they want to go and progress. Slowing down progression can be done in other ways (like more complicated crafting recipes and rarer materials, as we just saw in a patch).

I am a casual player and I have barely been playing the game for a week. I tried jumping to Serpensarindi two nights ago, but decided to abandon my post there when I noticed that resource blocks in mines were taking 12 hits to destroy with my Iron Hammer. I completely skipped T2 and T3 planets. I am now happily squatted on Till and that is my choice to make until I feel ready for other planets and I am still not at the endgame.

My idea would be a concept right from Minecraft, and is so simple and basic, I’m shocked they don’t use it.

Namely you need the Previous material, to even break and get the next. So in Minecraft, you need Wood to get stone. Then stone to get Iron, then Iron to get Diamond. You can’t go from Wood or stone to Diamond. Even if you hit it enough to break the block, it doesn’t drop the resource, cause you need Iron.

And since this game focuses not only on Resources, but restricting them to planets, then it should be the same with progression. So say no resources on T1 worlds, only stone and wood for tools. Need to make Wooden tools, to collect rocks and turn them into stone to make stone tools.

Then with Stone Tools, you can go to T2, and break the soil there with stone shovels and the rocks there with Stone Hammers. And T2 worlds would only have copper. But the biggest change is that you NEED Stone tools to even damage and break the stuff on T2 worlds. So the ground, Soil, Peat, Clay, Mud and so on. They won’t be broken or damaged by Wooden Shovel, only Stone Shovel. Same with Trees needing Stone Axe, and Rocks needing Stone Hammers.

With copper tools, you can go into T3. And like before, you need Copper tools to break the soil, cut the trees, and break the rocks. Here there is another notiable change. There is no Copper, or silver, or other reasons. ONLY Iron shows up.

Then with Iron, go on to T4 to get Silver, and on and on.

Actual progression, than you need the right tools to even collect the blocks. Not that it’s slower or harder, but down right impossible.

If Iron is a low T3 material hammer, then it needs to STAY a low T3 hammer, and not something that can be brought up to T5 or T6.

This is one of the biggest pitfalls of progression in the game. The fact that there is no progression. People jump from lowest tier, to the highest, because they can. But some people don’t, sticking just to iron, again because they can.

It’s also why prices are so wildly placed, because yes Iron is more common, but you can also use iron the whole game. It just takes longer. And say a Diamond Hammer would do better and easier, it isn’t actually NEEDED to do anything.

This sense of no progression is in everything. Just look Decoration blocks. The only sense of progression is needing a lot of stone/wood for the Refined version, then refine to Decoration needs a very ineffician number of refine, and spark, to craft.

From 1 gap to the next was a large number of the previous gap’s resource, 288, but for the second one, you need a part of the old gap 36 I think, and a new resource mechanic, Spark. Now you also need Wax, something you don’t get from cutting trees or mining rocks. Progression is now messed up.

It’s the same with tools. Taking Minecraft for example again, making tools is the exact same, no matter the tier, just the material is changed. You need stone for stone tools, iron for iron tools, diamon for diamond tools. Nothing else changed. It kept it simple. You go mining, and made progress by mining.

But in Boundless, they mess up right from the start. You get Wood and leaves and can make stick, leaves and wood to make wooden tools. Then you mine for stone, you get wood for Sticks and Leaves, and stone for stone tools. Now you mine for copper. Go back for some Wood for sticks, pick up some leaves. Got your copper… But you can’t make Copper tools anymore. Cause now you need 3 new resources. So instead of 3, like the two before it, you suddenly need twice that, SIX materials to make ONE tool. Whats more, these new materials aren’t tied to mining the ground for resources, or chopping trees for sticks and leaves.

Progression here jumps all over the place, and it’s basic low tier crafting. That isn’t even including the higher tier stuff.

Progression in this game is such a grind, because none of it is tied together. Everything need a unique resources, specific to very few recipes. The game would be better, if it cut out most of these useless resources all together.

But it doesn’t, and instead doubles down, making recipies even more complicated, instead of simple, and changing old instead of progressing to new tiers or adding entire new systems.

Going back to Minecraft. Minecraft has a LOT of items, way more than Boundless does currently. And yes, it only had 5 basic resources. Stone. Wood. Iron, Gold, and Diamond. And yet it can create so many items, using just those 5 resources.

Boundless has like 30 basic resources I think. Including Bone, Inky Leaf, Fiberish Leaf, Wood, Stone, Copper, Iron, Diamonds, Emeralds, Topaz, Silver, and so on. Boundless has made itself too complicated. Where you need resources from different things, from minerals, to rocks, to trees, to plants, to soil. Just to make basic stuff. Then instead of using those ‘Basic Stuff’ to craft advance stuff, you just need more of the Resources.

You don’t need an Stone Hammer to get the resources to make a Copper hammer. You don’t need a Copper hammer to get the resources to make a Iron Hammer.

Going back to Refine and Decoration blocks. You don’t need Iron to get materials to make Refind blocks, and don’t need Gem hammer to make Decoration blocks. And yet Refine and Decoration blocks, are compared, tiered, and made more complicated like they work the same way as the tools.

Where the First two didn’t need anything new. Stone/wood and Refine. Compared to Wood and Stone tools. Then like tools, the next Tier jumps, needing Spark and Wax, like tools need Glue and Sackcloth.

I said it before, and I said it again, progression is very messed up, and all over the place. This is what makes it very grindy. It isn’t very fluid. You can’t just mine to upgrade mining stuff. You have to venture out to searching for plants for the right leaf, cutting many trees for sap, and killing mobs for bones. And that’s just the Copper and Iron tools. It gets more complicated farther one.

People’s main excuse is ‘It’s an MMO, one player shouldn’t be able to make tools, they should be forced to have 2 people, one to mine and one to pick flowers and kill mobs’. And to them, I call them stupid. Because even if it’s an MMO, every single MMO ever released, and ever will be released in the future, are always 100% solo friendly. There is not a single MMO, except this one, that forces you to make friends, have friends, and cooperate with other players just to progress even a tiny bit in the game.

3 Likes

That’s not true at all. FFXI originally required a lot of grouping, same as EQ1/2, Lineage, many of the first MMO’s were designed to be played as Guilds from a very early stage. Back when game’s cost less’to make, these games didn’t need a huge team to support them, so they flourished, but as development costs increased, the game’s became easier to attract casuals.

Even in WoW, your character can’t specialize in every profession, he has’to choose a primary and secondary, or make alts.

It was like this originally, but they changed it because they felt it was too unintuitive.

Everything else you said I more or less agree with.

Thank you for the detailed and honest, thorough post. <3