My take on rock-stone xp removal and plots

Nightstar · 2019-04-02T04:29:10.294Z

terrylava:

the current meta is an extrapolation of basic math of the xp system falling apart under the weight of a playerbase who has had time to experiment, and cant find enough friends to take the place of their alts. players who just want to build at the highest levels finding ways to do just that.

Actually, the current meta is so obvious that it’s practically a requirement of the game. Its stopped players from experimenting (in this area) because it was so obvious, a natural consequence of progression.

There are easier methods already in game being ignored due to the prevalence of it.

Outside of that though I agree with you 100%. And now the devs have basically declared that having a crafter alt is an exploit.

I’m not sure how the real estate conversation aligns with the clear statement that this is not about “forcing players to buy more cubits”. I guess overall my take is that I’m still taking it in.

anon73404375 · 2019-04-02T04:32:50.828Z

I’m questioning the assertion that this has some significant negative effect on anyone else. I really don’t get it.

Nightstar · 2019-04-02T04:36:49.054Z

In my opinion, you either respect the fact that it hurts their feelings, or you can waste a million years trying to make them come up with some objectively reasonable answer.

I haven’t seen a single suggested “fix” for this “problem” that doesn’t involve making sure that we have “no child left behind”.

The only possible way to do this is to shame/punish achievers.

Lord, pardon my generation x is showing.

anon73404375 · 2019-04-02T04:37:59.583Z

Heheh… Don’t worry, you’re forgiven. I was born on the tail end of that.

terrylava · 2019-04-02T04:39:25.902Z

my point is more along the lines of brute force if you dont have a great idea like the premier portal hub. or these big ass empty cities in places like bituula. that bothers me to no end. ive walked through some amazing looking ghost towns, owned by one person. im talking about people wanting to try to be vicewarden or whatever, AFTER this exploit is removed. theres a lot that is broken by this exploit, and theres a lot that is going to be broken after it is removed.

my highest character is like level 32. my crafter… gathering materials to make teaching pies no less lol. i wont even get to enjoy something that i thought i discovered myself, and this change will create two classes of people. those who got a chance to use it, and those who havent. im not even sure i think it would be better if it were removed just because of how powerful it is. sure since its got so much traction now the devs have to do something, but i guess we can start the arms race of finding the next best thing.

Nightstar · 2019-04-02T04:45:52.248Z

terrylava:

but i guess we can start the arms race of finding the next best thing.

Trunk: New Meta? Old Exploit? General

In the interest of moving the conversation in a more proactive direction, I’d like to bring out something to take a little direct pressure off of the rock/stone debate specifically. I’m posting this before I have hard numbers across the process for a couple of reasons, the plainest being that someone may have numbers (answers) for some of these points already. The next reason is because a consideration process like this will occur until either the root cause is addressed or an acceptable “new …

I have offered a candidate.

anon73404375 · 2019-04-02T04:46:33.522Z

I guess this could go back and forth forever, but if there’s one thing I can state objectively, it’s that I’ve personally never felt threatened or disadvantaged by anyone who’s used this XP trick. If you asked me to pick them out of a lineup, I couldn’t even tell you who they are. I know more than a few folks who had infinitely higher Early Access backer tiers than I did, and I know people who spent enough money to buy a real planet in our actual solar system, so I know there were also some folks who got to where you’re talking about without ever leveling.

But in the end, I guess it really does come down to @Nightstar 's explanation about personal feelings - if it’s bugging you, then it’s just bugging you and that’s all there is to it. And you’ve been reasonable about this whole thing, and I don’t think either of us wants to camp here all night - it smelled like you were trying to step out about two posts ago - so I’m just gonna salute you and be on my way.

Maybe it does hurt some people? Maybe I’m just that insensitive?.. That last part seems entirely plausible.

terrylava · 2019-04-02T04:46:41.101Z

yeah i saw that. about to switch to my axe alt now

Nightstar · 2019-04-02T04:52:48.412Z

^^ you can get to my little farm at alcyon on hubbit network or fairytales network.

I’m running over 90% efficient on tool use, it just depends on how much you want to pay attentioin but if you break through the one layer of soil there you get to a gleam floor that alerts you you’re done with the pass right away.

I also added a ton of request baskets so farmers don’t even have to move if they just want to dump their trunk.

(this is laughingly off topic but it’s also my current take on the rock-> stone issue)

fidach · 2019-04-02T06:36:32.857Z

There was some chat about how not to affect new players:

fidach:

Perhaps a reasonable solution, if the concern is genuinely about removing a viable levelling option for new players, is to only give xp on this process (and maybe some others) to players under level 20/30 or whatever level?

We know the devs are happy to implement this sort of thing with the free cleanses.

I just get the feeling that a significant part of the objections are not coming from those concerned with how it affects new players (this isn’t directed at you) but more that it is removing a short cut to gain plots with very little effort.

fidach · 2019-04-02T06:41:21.968Z

Just wanted to show my appreciation to all posters for keeping this thread civil!

Hopefully others are reading and recognising how people can have a discussion with opposing views without resorting to flaming and sniping!

Trundamere · 2019-04-02T06:41:56.938Z

fidach:

There was some chat about how not to affect new players:

fidach:

Perhaps a reasonable solution, if the concern is genuinely about removing a viable levelling option for new players, is to only give xp on this process (and maybe some others) to players under level 20/30 or whatever level?

We know the devs are happy to implement this sort of thing with the free cleanses.

This doesn’t fix the „problem“ with it being used to level up alts. And therefore i think the devs are extremely likely to reject this.

fidach · 2019-04-02T06:49:53.719Z

I see what you are saying, but I think by the time you are in a position to be employing alts you would have a few different ways to quickly level up to 20 anyway?

So I don’t see that so much of an issue.

It seems to me that the real issue for the devs (I may be reading it wrong) is the higher level characters using this process to cheaply level for cubit/plot gain.

If you wanted to add a ‘solution’ to the ‘problem’ of quickly levelling an alt from 0-20, the xp gain could be removed from the alt?

I personally don’t think it would be necessary, but could be an option.

Trundamere · 2019-04-02T06:55:08.270Z

fidach:

It seems to me that the real issue for the devs (I may be reading it wrong) is the higher level characters using this process to cheaply level for cubit/plot gain.

I do believe that is the major problem, yes, however I also think the devs are not happy with people being able to give stuff to their alt and semi-AFK level. Therefore I believe the problem is a little more complex then just the hard hitter „abusers“ who use it to get 11M exp or so in one go

fidach:

see what you are saying, but I think by the time you are in a position to be employing alts you would have a few different ways to quickly level up to 20 anyway?

So I don’t see that so much of an issue.

Maybe. But it is still the most effective way, since you are using the effort of your main char which can do a lot more, and then there is the passiveness of it for the alt being leveled since it is a side effect of mining.

fidach:

If you wanted to add a ‘solution’ to the ‘problem’ of quickly levelling an alt from 0-20, the xp gain could be removed from the alt?

I am not 100% sure if I understand the question/request in full.

Nightstar · 2019-04-02T06:59:50.548Z

fidach:

If you wanted to add a ‘solution’ to the ‘problem’ of quickly levelling an alt from 0-20, the xp gain could be removed from the alt?

For instance, no XP for my crafter smelting ore mined by my miner?

I didn’t fully understand this either.

fidach · 2019-04-02T07:04:06.175Z

No, sorry, just removing the rock to stone xp for alts.

You only gain xp from rock to stone on MAIN char up to level 20.

Hope that makes more sense!

Trundamere · 2019-04-02T07:08:39.142Z

fidach:

You only gain xp from rock to stone on MAIN char up to level 20.

This might create confusion for new players who quickly discover they can make alts and do so.

Also the game would need some way to define a char as a „Main“ which might make the situation very complex if you have a new player with a handful of alts that are all under level 20.

Asymmetrical rule sets are typically not the best way to go about things.

fidach · 2019-04-02T07:11:18.826Z

Nightstar:

For instance, no XP for my crafter smelting ore mined by my miner?

However, I did make some suggestions on changing the skills and they way to level skills here, which kind of ties in with what you said:

Skill trees to (possibly) resolve the levelling 'issue' Suggestions

It seems to me that a lot of the complaints currently are to do with not being rewarded for paying the way that people want to play the game. I’m sure something similar had been suggested before, I know a similar thing had been suggested for guild buffs. There should be a central core of skills - health, protection, maybe a couple of others - with style specific branches extending - builder, hunter, crafter, etc - with branch specific skills in each. The skill branch should be activated, and …

I don’t think I explained it very well, but it essentially boils down to you get better at a task (gain xp and level related skills) by doing the task.

If we take rock to stone as an example, you would only be levelling up the ‘mass craft’ skill as it doesn’t really involve anything else, and only if you have that specific ‘crafter’ skill tree active on that character.

fidach · 2019-04-02T07:13:30.709Z

Well, my view has always been that alts should not be allowed until you hit level 50 anyway, but that’s another discussion! (and way too late to implement anyway)

Mayumichi · 2019-04-02T07:14:37.103Z

fidach:

It seems to me that the real issue for the devs (I may be reading it wrong) is the higher level characters using this process to cheaply level for cubit/plot gain.

That’s not it, at least from what I’ve read.

Rock to Stone XP - A critical look from a Root Cause Analysis perspective

There are 2 exploits:

Players can collect rock, setup a crafting farm with Alt-1 - then Alt-2 does all the crafting. This means that Alt-2 can jump up many levels for minimal play time.

We have no problem with players collecting crafting XP when they have harvest materials. At the same time we have no issues with players sharing resources between their friends and alts. But I do think it’s an exploit to get a new alt to Level 50 in under 5 hours of play time. The exploit is that the alt-2 is levelling too fast.

Teaching Pies are supposed to boost XP for 30 minutes of activity. Queuing up 10 hours of crafting, taking a teaching pie, signing out for 12 hours, then returning means that the Teaching Pie is boosting XP for 10/12 hours - not 30 minutes.