Poll: Crafting Skills

Devlog
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I’m just starting to take another look at the skills system, and I’m considering the future of crafting skills. One thing we’re trying to achieve with the skill system is that there are various roles that you might want to take on, and we’re trying to balance it so that there are a good spread of skills for each role. Crafting is one of the roles we’re considering.

To help inform the direction we go with this, I’d like to get your opinion with the following Poll:

  • Spending skill points to unlock recipes is a good way to enable specialisation in crafting.
  • The basic recipes should be unlocked by everyone, but more advanced recipes should be bought with skill points.
  • All recipes should be unlocked by everyone, but skills should be bought to make crafting take less time and resources.
  • Standard crafting should be outside of the skill system, with crafting skills being bought for more advanced features like Bulk and Mass crafting and the Forge.

0 voters

11 Likes
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Awesome! can’t wait to see how this turns out ^^ I would certainly love to see crafting skills be more about crafting perks rather than simply unlocking recipes…

Edit:
just to throw some ideas out:

  • bulk and mass crafting <3…
  • improved spanner repair,
  • improved spark generation / furnace efficiency,
  • reduced wear on machines / coils,

Forge stuff

  • greater chance of success / more points to spend or something,
  • extra effects to add / be able to apply more effects to the same item

(really have no clue how it’s supposed to work :rofl:) etc.

@olliepurkiss by "Standard crafting should be outside of the skill system" do you mean that skills like bulk / mass crafting would not affect them? or just that you simply would not be unlocking crafting recipes with skills and crafting skills still apply to them?

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My thought on that one was to just have Bulk and Mass crafting skills as they are, and then some Forge skills, but all other crafting be available to everyone and have fixed resource, time and spark costs.

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As long as there is skills to unlock the machines, there no reason to hide most of the recipes behind another skill.
Its just frustrating to build your machine, just to find out you need another skill to use it.

11 Likes
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yeah… kinda annoying when you realize that you invest lots of points into crafting the machines and once you have plenty of each type… you really don’t need those skills anymore ><… i mean i guess it’s kinda nice that you could unlearn them and reinvest the points elsewhere but it would take a while to accomplish with only cleanse points and a real pain if later you suddenly need more machines ><

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I reckon having skills for greater success rates and durability loss reduction (I think the forge takes durability? Not sure…) Would be cool.
Maybe some boons locked behind skills, or some of the less dramatic debuffs and quirks like the noise one locked behind skills
So that by unlocking skills you can destroy tools less/succeed more, use better boons, and have less dramatic quirks and debuffs

5 Likes
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My toughts on the subject are really precise…

First of all i would not speak about “classes” (healer, crafter, etc) and would use that word just as an ideal stereotype (the hunter, the crafter, the healer role etc) and “skill path” as i can build a specific hybrid wich MUST have his own reasons to exist (also forcing everybody to have a superspecialized character it’s not a good thing; surely a superspecialized hunter will be able to be better at hunting, but probably, given the same amount of skill points, an hybrid character could be more agile and would have his reasons to exist (and be called by the superspecialized hunter to go toghether)

  • basic recipes free for everybody up to stone and crafting table BUT without chisel and spanner, wich i consider not needed for a basic crafter, if you want them you have to invest point (starting, few points) to unlock the recipe or you have to buy from someonelse; why? because if you want an economy that works from it’s inner bases you have to have a market also for newcomers, at the same time having to spend points just to produce a stone chisel/spanner while you are building a hunter characters makes no sense, go and spend 10 coins and use your points somewherelse … i would reflect this also to other skill-paths (example: basic points for slingbows usage, who don’t invest in them could have firing speed or damage reduced by 25%)

  • total amount of points spent on a skill path to unlock passive bonus, for example the possibility to craft a “Perfect” item, wich report on it the name of the crafter and is 10% stronger effect; same thing for other skill paths… Skill path of the Hunter can unlock a random zoom+bullet time if using a slingbow or zoom+extended range for lances (the moment you see the zoom, you know you triggered it); chance for this to happen (for any skill path) should be low but not “miraculous” (something like 1 to 3 every 100 hit/crafted recipe); for miner-gatherer can be a super drop as nuber of item dropped of that kind etc.

  • i would not use crafting time as something to be variable based on skill points, imo… i m not going to feel that my character is progressing if it takes 1 min to craft a diamond things even if it originally takes 2 hours, i would feel that is improving if my character actually can do something or can make something special to happen… in this sense i like the idea that at a certain point you can unlock a skill that gives you the ability to add a “material slot” to a given recipe… for example i could be able to craft with 25% (fixed chance of success) a slingbows adding a material 1 tier superior (also iron on a copper grapple, etc) so i can make a more durable item or i can add to the recipe of a slingbows a damage augmentation with it’s effect at 1/4… as i said: 25% chance of success, wich is pretty high, if you fail you just have the normal item (and obviously lose the used material with wich you tried to enhance it).
    now imagine this things all together: you have 25% chance to craft an augmented slingbows that has 2% chance to be perfect. IF you are a follower of the Hunter path AND you have this weapon, you will have your 2% chance for a perfect blow or zoom etc.; if you are a crafter and you have the same weapon, your attack speed or damage or even a mix of both, wich would be far more realistic: 15% less damage and firing speed…

this would give to all the paths an interdependancy…

far more: once you reach lvl 50 you have done.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

VERY VERY rarely a “map boss” will drop an “infused power gem” wich contains… 1 skill point… and at certain levels you will need A LOT of those… to unlock epical feats xD but this is another story :stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT to add this: what i’m tryng to express is that crafting/gathering shouldn t be the fatal destiny of this game… i would like to rent a specialized hunter while i’m going to mine in the caves cause i need materials… in this moment an advanced character have no problem in killing/survivng/mining/crafting all alone (no need for alt characters to reach this one), what this means? that there are no difference between a crafter+miner and a gatherer+hunter, and i think that this is PARTIALLY the reason for the overflow of materials that the market can’t absorb atm

7 Likes
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I voted “All recipes should be unlocked by everyone, but skills should be bought to make crafting take less time and resources.”
I was hesitant at first but here are my reasons:

  • Advanced Recipes are already locked behind the machine progression, spark, coils, etc. This double gate to additionally lock them behind skills doesn’t feel good.

  • What do skills for the other roles? - They don’t lock them completely, like recipe skills do right now for crafting. You can still mine, build or hunt, even if you are not a miner builder or hunter. The skills of the other roles make them more efficient at what they do.

Additional thoughts:
For some progression within recipes, make some recipes discoveries in the world. For example: You need to find and eat basic cooking ingredients before you get ideas for more advanced recipes using these ingredients.
Of course using the economy can speed up the process. Like atlasses can be used to transfer knowledge about the world between players, players could be able to write down discovered recipes on papers and sell these to teach others.

7 Likes
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I do like the idea that if you make an item without the right attributes it isn’t as good as someone who crafts it with the right attributes. However, this adds complexity and players would need to see and understand why a weapon is better or worse from the crafter, buyer and seller point of view.

Apart from that, I do like this approach.

12 Likes
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RPG players want to grind to max out their characters abilities. Players want to be able to fight and make stuff. I think putting crafting on an economy based advancement track seems like a decent compromise. The drawback being complicating the progression system. But I think since we see players wanting to be able to run multiple toons to do everything anyways it makes since.

—Perhaps a better solution—
Would be tie advancement to the activity you are engaging in as opposed to one big pool, with categories for each trade.

So if you spend time fighting your fighting progresses.

If you spend time crafting, crafting progresses

and so on for building, trading, exploring

Then it is theoretically possible to max all abilities but as a mater of practically it would take a significant amount of time.

This system makes specialization a natural process that is intuitive. It also eliminates the reset issue. it so that you can develop multiple abilities, but requires that you have spent enough time focusing on them, or you can just trade. The choice is yours.

5 Likes
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I reply to you but it’s more generical :wink:

RPG players do not want to grind to max out their character abilities :stuck_out_tongue: RPG players wants to… play a role :smiley:

RPG stand for role play game, if you can achive everything you don’t have a role, you cover ALL the roles therefore YOU (as a specific character) have no role, everybody are exactly like you, and everything will be totally dependant from the time you spend ingame… you can be a pilaster of the community after 1 year playng and suddenly be cutted out by a player who enjoyed 10 hours a day for 3 months. Why you will be cutted out? simply becouse it’s more time worthing to go around with him (who is always online) and so it’s stronger than you, and basically nobody will need you to log in because you (like everyone else) do not cover any role at all
in the other hand, if you think about a character where you have to think and choose what you want to do can put other people in the condition to wait for you to log in, because you made some specific choices in the path of your character that can make you a sort of unicum; than you can make an alt character because you understood that a spcific role is needed or looked for but nobody want to do it etc etc

Obviously we are looking at 2 completely different “worlds”, everybody everything vs. specific choices and i belive that the compromise is in the standard base set of skill/abilities: as a crafter you will not be a good hunter (as you put no or few points in slbow ability) but nothing stops you from having in your hand the final and deadly slingbow, wich in your hand will be less deadly, but still… let’s say the “0 skill point standard”, abilities and recipes wich needs NO skill point to be used (i would put in this the advanced block placement xD). Also would be interesting to give path dependant recipes: a hunter can unlock recipes to craft “natural healing food” from what he found (nothing like brew, but able to add survivability), things that a non-hunter would not be able to do (but nothing will stop anybody from going to hunt)

2 Likes
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I chose basic skills should be unlocked while more advanced skills should be locked away with skill points.

My reasoning is simple, currently new players cant even cook meat without a skill point in the food recipes. I feel like cooking a raw material for food should be something everyone should know and demanding skill points for it is silly.

When making something or excelling at something one would need these points in order to specialize into a type of area my example with food is quite simple, everyone knows that if they heat up a raw item they can make a cooked one of those items. However not everyone knows how to make pie, or ratatouille. (Using a more complicated term here to prove the point)

I feel like the system right now is fine in some regards (As I have no trouble getting all the crafting skills on alt 1, all gathering on alt 2 and all the hunting specialization I need on alt 3) however the system will need to be reworked if you wish to make it not only more tedious for higher level players, but also less taxing on newer players. As of now it is more punishing for newer players to do almost anything and I dont feel very different from anyone else with a hunter a gatherer and a crafter. I dont feel the unique specialization of healing currently with my bombs and revives, I am not needed in the slightest. If everyone was the same build, it wouldnt make much of a difference.

I’d love everyone to have access to basic skills, for example the basic coils, being able to cook the T1 foods at the very least (soup, at least). A few blocks here and there (I am satisfied with what we have now with torches and such, however I believe new players need the basics at least to look towards goals like coils and such etc)

Personally the crafting portion of the game should not be taxing to invest in, I feel like tree specialization should revolve around more so with combat roles and gathering roles. This game requires you to craft blocks and machines and coils after all and blocking people out from doing anything else is unfair and not very fun. :c

I understand the point of interacting more with other players but I feel like making items like weapons, food, brews, etc. Should be more specialized for skill points rather than machines, coils, and decorative blocks.

TLDR: Everyone should be able to make any block in the game without giving up their unique variety in the skill tree, I feel that blocks/power coils/machines should be locked out by levels while skills should specialize a characters role such as combat, gathering and unique crafting roles such as a weapon smith, a chef, etc.

if not levels then specializing in things like advanced coils and non-placable blocks could be skill based and building materials and blocks can be unlocked for everyone. (as building is a large portion of this game)

4 Likes
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Yeah, I know what RPG means, I mean players from that background. If you want to get super padantic you should actually be pretending to be that character not just play it on the computer. Greetings fish man gatherer, I am a mighty Dog man hunter and I come from Barkville. Do you wish to trade bone for goo.

My ideas are based on what James already stated.

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Oh you guys… Just you wait until I get home, I’m going to TL; DR up in here.

7 Likes
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I think skills should focus on efficiency of said tasks rather than the ability to perform them at all. I also agree with @Jiivita’s position of removing crafting recipes for the skills tab and making them all accessible at the start but as you level up your crafting skill it allows you to create more efficient versions of those items. A few examples:

  • Storage Shelves
    stack less items initially but leveling up allows you to create storage blocks that hold more items per stack. This could create demand for people that have a lot of skill in crafting because they’d be one of the few people that could craft shelves that stack hundreds of items at a time

  • Hammers and Tools
    break blocks at their default values (scaled accordingly for rarity of materials) but leveling the crafting skill can add “enchantments” that make them lighter allowing them to mine faster or heavier to allow them to mine more blocks at a time.

  • Torches
    can be crafted with distance buffs (scaled accordingly for rarity of materials)

  • Weapons
    can be crafted with durability bonuses and damage buffs

I think with an approach more akin to something like this, you could apply it to other areas of the skills system as well. It would also provide a way to have “roles” in the capitals that are more than just the “best builders”. It could lead to having roles like “Lead Alchemist” “Lead Cook” “Lead Hunter” and “Lead Farmer”. I think this would broaden the scope and also simplify the start up of the game, while adding depth to “the grind”

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Yes please! Right now my hunter needs to run home to bash a machine with a spanner so it’ll last longer lol

3 Likes
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I think that since the machine have the ability to craft certain product, this ability should not be limited by the player’s own skill locks.

For the unlocking recipes, players should gradually learn through the game process.
Similar"learn by analogy".

Initially players can learn crafting and using the base props by sanctum guardian.
Then when the player reaches certain conditions, they will automatically realized(learned) the relevant recipe.

For example, if a player eating something raw, he will learn how to cook the raw food.
When player got stones and will learned to craft this harder thing into tools.
After being attacked by enemy, learn to make weapons to fight back…

This may be a huge design project, but this should more consistent with “survival.”

2 Likes
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I know a lot’s been covered, but my two cents:

Having specialized crafting is great! It makes the crafting meaningful and allows the people who have put time and effort into just that have a little something extra to it. An example: Final fantasy’s crafting system allows you to make whatever, but with specializations and skills that affect the quality of an item made. Anyone could make generic item #3, but only certain people can make a super high quality item #3. It makes crafting less of an afterthought and more of a viable path. We already have to choose one way or another, I feel like we ought to just fully embrace it. SWG (RIP) also had a more complex crafting system, and while the game itself is no longer standing, I can’t help but see some similarities in the way resources are handled in Boundless. With both games, you had to go out and find a good source of a resource to bring it in. Here, anyone with the points can make the item, but I think it would definitely be good for the community for someone to go “Oh, Jiivita makes the best iron hammers, they’re worth more than Maevyn’s because you get more per swing” because, in this example, Jiivita’s specced that way, and I’m just the average joe. TL;DR here: Yes, make crafting special and varied.

I think the right idea for weapons is the augments, but I think the system could be implemented better. Having them with limited number of uses almost makes them not worth buying imho. Since we can’t repair a weapon anyway (that I know of) why not just make the augment permanent, a bit more costly to create, but far more useful. I’d be far more willing to put the time and effort into a weapon augment if I knew it would be able to be used for more than a few shots. Even make them a specialized skill, you could even go so far as to put multiple tiers into it. Make a crafter commit to weapon crafting and the augments that go with.

There are fantastic starts in the skill tree, and one of the most pleasant surprises to me since I took a look at the game actively years ago. I’d love to see a little more finesse with the combat (like a shield with timing to block projectiles or at least mitigate their damage some other than the skill based points), as well as an actual dodge ability. GW2 did a great active dodging deal, and it’s one of the most frustrating things for me when I’m hopping and strafing around to have the critter hit me anyways.

4 Likes
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My thought for crafting skills is a simple 3 tiers of proficiency per crafting station; basic, advanced and powered skills. Basic unlocks all crafting skills on that particular workstation that require no spark or power. Advanced unlocks spark recipes, and powered unlocks recipes that require power. For example:
Workbench basic crafting, advanced, powered
Extractor basic, advanced, powered
Mixer basic, advanced, powered
This has several benefits- for the most part, existing recipes won’t need to change too much. Having the basic crafting skill on every workstation plus advanced or powered in one or two will largely allow a crafts person to make advanced recipes without overspending points, but the most advanced recipes require greater knowledge of more workstations. Also it’s much more simplified over the existing crafting skill set up.
I’d also like to see crafting efficiency affected by attributes skills, rather than stand alone skills. Some underutilized attributes like Control or Intelligence could be a boon to craftsmen. Control could reduce wear on a workstation, Intelligence could reduce crafting cost (like bulk or mass crafting does now) or improve forge success.

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interesting @Havok40k
indeed the most trouble starting players have is that they often unlock a machine skill and build it but then don’t have all recipe skills to craft using that machine - its hard to figure out what will be needed and plan ahead which skills to buy first etc. even with right-click info in game its just too much clicking and checking before one can get clear enough picture;
the fact that to cover recipes from a machine one needs a few different recipe skills makes the picture quite foggy;

6 Likes