Poll: Crafting Skills

Devlog
8

I voted “All recipes should be unlocked by everyone, but skills should be bought to make crafting take less time and resources.”
I was hesitant at first but here are my reasons:

  • Advanced Recipes are already locked behind the machine progression, spark, coils, etc. This double gate to additionally lock them behind skills doesn’t feel good.

  • What do skills for the other roles? - They don’t lock them completely, like recipe skills do right now for crafting. You can still mine, build or hunt, even if you are not a miner builder or hunter. The skills of the other roles make them more efficient at what they do.

Additional thoughts:
For some progression within recipes, make some recipes discoveries in the world. For example: You need to find and eat basic cooking ingredients before you get ideas for more advanced recipes using these ingredients.
Of course using the economy can speed up the process. Like atlasses can be used to transfer knowledge about the world between players, players could be able to write down discovered recipes on papers and sell these to teach others.

7 Likes
9

I do like the idea that if you make an item without the right attributes it isn’t as good as someone who crafts it with the right attributes. However, this adds complexity and players would need to see and understand why a weapon is better or worse from the crafter, buyer and seller point of view.

Apart from that, I do like this approach.

12 Likes
10

RPG players want to grind to max out their characters abilities. Players want to be able to fight and make stuff. I think putting crafting on an economy based advancement track seems like a decent compromise. The drawback being complicating the progression system. But I think since we see players wanting to be able to run multiple toons to do everything anyways it makes since.

—Perhaps a better solution—
Would be tie advancement to the activity you are engaging in as opposed to one big pool, with categories for each trade.

So if you spend time fighting your fighting progresses.

If you spend time crafting, crafting progresses

and so on for building, trading, exploring

Then it is theoretically possible to max all abilities but as a mater of practically it would take a significant amount of time.

This system makes specialization a natural process that is intuitive. It also eliminates the reset issue. it so that you can develop multiple abilities, but requires that you have spent enough time focusing on them, or you can just trade. The choice is yours.

5 Likes
11

I reply to you but it’s more generical :wink:

RPG players do not want to grind to max out their character abilities :stuck_out_tongue: RPG players wants to… play a role :smiley:

RPG stand for role play game, if you can achive everything you don’t have a role, you cover ALL the roles therefore YOU (as a specific character) have no role, everybody are exactly like you, and everything will be totally dependant from the time you spend ingame… you can be a pilaster of the community after 1 year playng and suddenly be cutted out by a player who enjoyed 10 hours a day for 3 months. Why you will be cutted out? simply becouse it’s more time worthing to go around with him (who is always online) and so it’s stronger than you, and basically nobody will need you to log in because you (like everyone else) do not cover any role at all
in the other hand, if you think about a character where you have to think and choose what you want to do can put other people in the condition to wait for you to log in, because you made some specific choices in the path of your character that can make you a sort of unicum; than you can make an alt character because you understood that a spcific role is needed or looked for but nobody want to do it etc etc

Obviously we are looking at 2 completely different “worlds”, everybody everything vs. specific choices and i belive that the compromise is in the standard base set of skill/abilities: as a crafter you will not be a good hunter (as you put no or few points in slbow ability) but nothing stops you from having in your hand the final and deadly slingbow, wich in your hand will be less deadly, but still… let’s say the “0 skill point standard”, abilities and recipes wich needs NO skill point to be used (i would put in this the advanced block placement xD). Also would be interesting to give path dependant recipes: a hunter can unlock recipes to craft “natural healing food” from what he found (nothing like brew, but able to add survivability), things that a non-hunter would not be able to do (but nothing will stop anybody from going to hunt)

2 Likes
12

I chose basic skills should be unlocked while more advanced skills should be locked away with skill points.

My reasoning is simple, currently new players cant even cook meat without a skill point in the food recipes. I feel like cooking a raw material for food should be something everyone should know and demanding skill points for it is silly.

When making something or excelling at something one would need these points in order to specialize into a type of area my example with food is quite simple, everyone knows that if they heat up a raw item they can make a cooked one of those items. However not everyone knows how to make pie, or ratatouille. (Using a more complicated term here to prove the point)

I feel like the system right now is fine in some regards (As I have no trouble getting all the crafting skills on alt 1, all gathering on alt 2 and all the hunting specialization I need on alt 3) however the system will need to be reworked if you wish to make it not only more tedious for higher level players, but also less taxing on newer players. As of now it is more punishing for newer players to do almost anything and I dont feel very different from anyone else with a hunter a gatherer and a crafter. I dont feel the unique specialization of healing currently with my bombs and revives, I am not needed in the slightest. If everyone was the same build, it wouldnt make much of a difference.

I’d love everyone to have access to basic skills, for example the basic coils, being able to cook the T1 foods at the very least (soup, at least). A few blocks here and there (I am satisfied with what we have now with torches and such, however I believe new players need the basics at least to look towards goals like coils and such etc)

Personally the crafting portion of the game should not be taxing to invest in, I feel like tree specialization should revolve around more so with combat roles and gathering roles. This game requires you to craft blocks and machines and coils after all and blocking people out from doing anything else is unfair and not very fun. :c

I understand the point of interacting more with other players but I feel like making items like weapons, food, brews, etc. Should be more specialized for skill points rather than machines, coils, and decorative blocks.

TLDR: Everyone should be able to make any block in the game without giving up their unique variety in the skill tree, I feel that blocks/power coils/machines should be locked out by levels while skills should specialize a characters role such as combat, gathering and unique crafting roles such as a weapon smith, a chef, etc.

if not levels then specializing in things like advanced coils and non-placable blocks could be skill based and building materials and blocks can be unlocked for everyone. (as building is a large portion of this game)

4 Likes
13

Yeah, I know what RPG means, I mean players from that background. If you want to get super padantic you should actually be pretending to be that character not just play it on the computer. Greetings fish man gatherer, I am a mighty Dog man hunter and I come from Barkville. Do you wish to trade bone for goo.

My ideas are based on what James already stated.

14

Oh you guys… Just you wait until I get home, I’m going to TL; DR up in here.

7 Likes
15

I think skills should focus on efficiency of said tasks rather than the ability to perform them at all. I also agree with @Jiivita’s position of removing crafting recipes for the skills tab and making them all accessible at the start but as you level up your crafting skill it allows you to create more efficient versions of those items. A few examples:

  • Storage Shelves
    stack less items initially but leveling up allows you to create storage blocks that hold more items per stack. This could create demand for people that have a lot of skill in crafting because they’d be one of the few people that could craft shelves that stack hundreds of items at a time

  • Hammers and Tools
    break blocks at their default values (scaled accordingly for rarity of materials) but leveling the crafting skill can add “enchantments” that make them lighter allowing them to mine faster or heavier to allow them to mine more blocks at a time.

  • Torches
    can be crafted with distance buffs (scaled accordingly for rarity of materials)

  • Weapons
    can be crafted with durability bonuses and damage buffs

I think with an approach more akin to something like this, you could apply it to other areas of the skills system as well. It would also provide a way to have “roles” in the capitals that are more than just the “best builders”. It could lead to having roles like “Lead Alchemist” “Lead Cook” “Lead Hunter” and “Lead Farmer”. I think this would broaden the scope and also simplify the start up of the game, while adding depth to “the grind”

16

Yes please! Right now my hunter needs to run home to bash a machine with a spanner so it’ll last longer lol

3 Likes
17

I think that since the machine have the ability to craft certain product, this ability should not be limited by the player’s own skill locks.

For the unlocking recipes, players should gradually learn through the game process.
Similar"learn by analogy".

Initially players can learn crafting and using the base props by sanctum guardian.
Then when the player reaches certain conditions, they will automatically realized(learned) the relevant recipe.

For example, if a player eating something raw, he will learn how to cook the raw food.
When player got stones and will learned to craft this harder thing into tools.
After being attacked by enemy, learn to make weapons to fight back…

This may be a huge design project, but this should more consistent with “survival.”

2 Likes
18

I know a lot’s been covered, but my two cents:

Having specialized crafting is great! It makes the crafting meaningful and allows the people who have put time and effort into just that have a little something extra to it. An example: Final fantasy’s crafting system allows you to make whatever, but with specializations and skills that affect the quality of an item made. Anyone could make generic item #3, but only certain people can make a super high quality item #3. It makes crafting less of an afterthought and more of a viable path. We already have to choose one way or another, I feel like we ought to just fully embrace it. SWG (RIP) also had a more complex crafting system, and while the game itself is no longer standing, I can’t help but see some similarities in the way resources are handled in Boundless. With both games, you had to go out and find a good source of a resource to bring it in. Here, anyone with the points can make the item, but I think it would definitely be good for the community for someone to go “Oh, Jiivita makes the best iron hammers, they’re worth more than Maevyn’s because you get more per swing” because, in this example, Jiivita’s specced that way, and I’m just the average joe. TL;DR here: Yes, make crafting special and varied.

I think the right idea for weapons is the augments, but I think the system could be implemented better. Having them with limited number of uses almost makes them not worth buying imho. Since we can’t repair a weapon anyway (that I know of) why not just make the augment permanent, a bit more costly to create, but far more useful. I’d be far more willing to put the time and effort into a weapon augment if I knew it would be able to be used for more than a few shots. Even make them a specialized skill, you could even go so far as to put multiple tiers into it. Make a crafter commit to weapon crafting and the augments that go with.

There are fantastic starts in the skill tree, and one of the most pleasant surprises to me since I took a look at the game actively years ago. I’d love to see a little more finesse with the combat (like a shield with timing to block projectiles or at least mitigate their damage some other than the skill based points), as well as an actual dodge ability. GW2 did a great active dodging deal, and it’s one of the most frustrating things for me when I’m hopping and strafing around to have the critter hit me anyways.

4 Likes
19

My thought for crafting skills is a simple 3 tiers of proficiency per crafting station; basic, advanced and powered skills. Basic unlocks all crafting skills on that particular workstation that require no spark or power. Advanced unlocks spark recipes, and powered unlocks recipes that require power. For example:
Workbench basic crafting, advanced, powered
Extractor basic, advanced, powered
Mixer basic, advanced, powered
This has several benefits- for the most part, existing recipes won’t need to change too much. Having the basic crafting skill on every workstation plus advanced or powered in one or two will largely allow a crafts person to make advanced recipes without overspending points, but the most advanced recipes require greater knowledge of more workstations. Also it’s much more simplified over the existing crafting skill set up.
I’d also like to see crafting efficiency affected by attributes skills, rather than stand alone skills. Some underutilized attributes like Control or Intelligence could be a boon to craftsmen. Control could reduce wear on a workstation, Intelligence could reduce crafting cost (like bulk or mass crafting does now) or improve forge success.

11 Likes
20

interesting @Havok40k
indeed the most trouble starting players have is that they often unlock a machine skill and build it but then don’t have all recipe skills to craft using that machine - its hard to figure out what will be needed and plan ahead which skills to buy first etc. even with right-click info in game its just too much clicking and checking before one can get clear enough picture;
the fact that to cover recipes from a machine one needs a few different recipe skills makes the picture quite foggy;

6 Likes
21

I like to see that in crafting group ( basic, advanced etc) Keep the ingredients at same level, or lower.

Not get a recipe for your tier with one or more ingredients that is a higher tier.

3 Likes
22

As someone who’s really concerned on the status of crafting system- especially with the Boundless’ ingame economy. In sense of - ya’know, stuffs.

I rather that I support the Specialization stuff. The more… branched off jobs- instead of making it so people can become the Jack of Trades, and thus encourage lonewolfing, and not as dependence on other players ultimately not having to play with people- and play their own pace at their own desire. I can understands- I can comprehend their understanding. I can sympathize with the players that can’t afford to play Boundless most of their time in which because they have school, work, and or life in the way in the format that they cannot be exactly active. But this is the issue with Boundless- The Economy itself - is in shambles. It’s at the point where any more of leeway, and making rewards higher, and risks lower- it’ll be difficult on new players to get started off - financially wise.

Right now, the economy of the game is slowly shifting into - And what I mean shifting into- This is exactly where we are at.

We’re currently at the Monopolistic Competition level, but it won’t be long before we starts to descend into Perfect Competition Status. To you, that may sound attractive as it said Perfect Competition - But trust me, as a Seller. it is not attractive at all.

As it stands, the only way for a Seller to sell, and buyer to buy- is to drive the economy’s price down evenmoreso. Making it such a hazard for the players’ economy currently. If the players were given more liberty to craft more stuff at less costs of their skillpoints, and their increased accessibility to more stuff. Then it slowly, and it slowly stales out the economy eventually.

One of the reason why I would rather support specialized crafting, is to encourage economy, and addition, encourage closer tighter communities found when player explores world. Instead of bunch of scattered houses, and messy places across the planet when they’re trying to find a place to establish, and or settle.

But it’s up to the majority. They can continue to make decisions in which it damage the economy, in exchange for more “fun” - Or they could at least try to make game challenging for them, and interactive with other people rather than just being a Do-It-All.

That’s just my takes on the situation. Give, or take.

4 Likes
23

Well, I cant really agree with choices which help the economy and make the game not fun… though I’m hoping you didn’t really mean it that way.

And challenging does not have to equal grind or limitation. And it’s important to note that not everyone shares everyone else’s idea of what is comfortably challenging, and what is frustratingly challenging.

As long as alts are allowed (and I think they should be, for various reasons – RP, family members, etc), people will use them to cover all the skills they want to or have interest in. You can call them classes, call them specializations, it wont matter. I’ve seen it happen in every MMO that has crafting that I have ever played.

The true balancing factor here about people being able to do everything (which they WILL, either through skill sets, alts, or additional accounts) that people seem to keep forgetting, … is TIME.

If a person has a character or characters that can do everything, they cant actually be doing all those things at once. If they go mining, they aren’t gathering wood, or hunting for animal drops. If they’re busy building they’re not doing any of those in that time. The balance here cant be some kind of forced limitation, because people will (and always have/do) find a way around that. The limitation is simply already there. Balancing activities vs. time available/invested.

This is one of the reasons Sly and partners are doing so well with the shop. They’re spreading out the tasks/workload and getting more done in the same time. A single player, whether they have the skills on their character to do those things, will never be able to do them all at once, or even come close to keeping up.

4 Likes
24

But the game is advertised as a MMO- and in a fashion that this game is taking decisions, routes, and routines in which MMOs doesn’t exactly shine too much. Eventually, that shine will diminish, and people will wonders why this game is a MMO outside of hunting.

We need to give people more reasons to be grouped, more jobs to cover, so that new players could be easily integrated into the communities filling the weaknesses, and roles that themselves can be apart of- rather than being isolated just simply because they didn’t go the route other people wanted them to do.

I just rather wants us to focus on more of MMO aspect - rather than trying to make this game a Single-player. Sure the group of players will get stuff done more than single player with alts- but what’s the point of MMOs if players can do a lot of stuff themselves alone? In my own opinion, That’s not fun - That’s just playing the game in the way you could be making friends, and having fun in the game with people that you befriended.

4 Likes
25

I find this interesting. It keeps coming up. A lot of people read MMO and though, you can’t do everything. I saw MMO and though oh all the worlds are connected.

4 Likes
26

To me, MMO is friendship- teamwork. Ultimate fun in group-play rather than trying to do everything Solo. Someone real to interact, and have a good chat rather than just stare at the monitor trying to smelt stacks of copper. ;p

6 Likes
27

That is a really good way of putting it.

4 Likes